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brogant
Apr 11, 2006, 6:01 PM
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Just saw that Michael Reardon got climbing magazines 2005 Golden Piton award for his solo exploits. Congrats Michael!!
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macherry
Apr 11, 2006, 6:20 PM
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macherry moved this thread from Trad Climbing to General.
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billcoe_
Apr 11, 2006, 7:24 PM
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In reply to: Just saw that Michael Reardon got climbing magazines 2005 Golen Piton award for his solo exploits. Congrats Michael!!
Is the "Golen Piton" an award issued by a Jewish or Israeli organization?
I'm thinking 2 laps around the "Golan Heights" with a jersey stenciled "You asswipes Suck" and no body armor should net someone this coveted award.
Congrats Michael, live long and prosper: Oyyy Vey! :P
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j_ung
Apr 11, 2006, 7:39 PM
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I wonder how many anonymous Michael bashers this will bring out of the woodwork. Congratulations you crazy little bastard! :P
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billcoe_
Apr 11, 2006, 7:49 PM
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In reply to: I wonder how many anonymous Michael bashers this will bring out of the woodwork. Congratulations you crazy little bastard! :P
None yet and it's at post #5! I think that's a record. Bachar says if you can keep up with Reardon for a day freesoloing, he'll give you shoes for life.
None of the bashers has taken that offer up yet........curious no?
I suggest that any bashers who want to slam Michael explain why they do not want to take that offer up in their post explaining why MR sucks.
Again, please explain to us why you have turned down the easy money in the bank "free shoes for life" offer if you feel you need to post explaining to the rest of us why and how Reardon is such a piss poor climber:-) :!: :?:
This should be interesting. .......... :wink:
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krusher4
Apr 11, 2006, 8:01 PM
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I don't recall ever seeing a "Free Solo" award... has there ever been one before?
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viacontinuum
Apr 11, 2006, 8:31 PM
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what i find interesting is how it only took 4 posts for you guys to start bashing the michael-bashers, even though none of them has posted here yet. relax a little; let's not hijack this thread prematurely. my congrats to Mr. Reardon for this recognition of his achievements.
peace
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billcoe_
Apr 11, 2006, 8:51 PM
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In reply to: I wonder how many anonymous Michael bashers this will bring out of the woodwork. Congratulations you crazy little bastard! :P
None yet and it's at post #5! I think that's a record. Bachar says if you can keep up with Reardon for a day freesoloing, he'll give you shoes for life.
None of the bashers has taken that offer up yet........curious no?
I suggest that any bashers who want to slam Michael explain why they do not want to take that offer up in their post explaining why MR sucks.
Again, please explain to us why you have turned down the easy money in the bank "free shoes for life" offer if you feel you need to post explaining to the rest of us why and how Reardon is such a piss poor climber:-) :!: :?:
This should be interesting. .......... :wink:
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j_ung
Apr 11, 2006, 9:24 PM
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In reply to: what i find interesting is how it only took 4 posts for you guys to start bashing the michael-bashers, even though none of them has posted here yet. relax a little; let's not hijack this thread prematurely. my congrats to Mr. Reardon for this recognition of his achievements. peace
:oops:
You're right. Thanks for the reality check.
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epic_ed
Apr 11, 2006, 9:32 PM
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If I ever needed a reason to no longer read that magazine, here it is. But, good thing for me the industry rags lost my interest a while back and I won't have to trouble myself with bashing them any further.
I'm not knocking Mikey's soloing, but if there was ever a guy on this planet that didn't need his ego stroked its this guy. Did he win it for the panty littering or the soloing? Or, maybe he won it for being the most narcissistic climber on the planet?
Ed
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philbox
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Apr 11, 2006, 9:51 PM
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So Ed, congratulations on winning shoes for life. :lol: :lol:
Hey Michael, ego or not, congratulations on the win buddy.
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epic_ed
Apr 11, 2006, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: I'm not knocking Mikey's soloing...
Nothing to do with his climbing -- I just hate seeing someone who is so utterly lacking in humility get more ink. It's no wonder to me why some many people feel an urge to want to knock him down a peg or two.
Ed
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tradrenn
Apr 11, 2006, 11:47 PM
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In reply to: It's no wonder to me why some many people feel an urge to want to knock him down a peg or two.
Maybe cause he is better then them ?
+
He is pretty nice guy if you get to meet him in person.
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macherry
Apr 12, 2006, 12:45 AM
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kudos to reardon on the soloing award
but, i think its in totally bad form to litter the backcountry with underwear
what is with that anyways?
i guess it wasn't a sierra club award
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anykineclimb
Apr 12, 2006, 1:02 AM
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In reply to: None yet and it's at post #5! I think that's a record. Bachar says if you can keep up with Reardon for a day freesoloing, he'll give you shoes for life. None of the bashers has taken that offer up yet........curious no?
Maybe no one wants crappy Boreal shoes? :twisted:
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holdplease2
Apr 12, 2006, 1:14 AM
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Michael climbs in Acopa, not Boreal. And Acopas are wicked good shoes.
But I'd rather pay with my pocket change than my life...
-Kate.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 1:25 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: None yet and it's at post #5! I think that's a record. Bachar says if you can keep up with Reardon for a day freesoloing, he'll give you shoes for life. None of the bashers has taken that offer up yet........curious no? Maybe no one wants crappy Boreal shoes? :twisted:
1980s flashback perhaps? In any event, Boreals were the best shoe you could possibly get back when JB was involved with them :D
Curt
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fracture
Apr 12, 2006, 1:32 AM
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Who cares about "golden pitons"?
This is a good example of why the climbing magazines are outdated. They basically have nothing to write about that wasn't already covered in better detail on the internet a month or two earlier. They have to make up silly shit like awards to give out because you can only read so many gear reviews before you realize you paid for the privilege of reading what amounts to one big advertisement.
I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for.
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cal_gundert05
Apr 12, 2006, 1:39 AM
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I didn't read all the posts, so I don't know if someone already said this, but does anyone see the irony in awarding a golden piton to a guy known for free-soloing? :lol:
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 1:44 AM
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In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for.
All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out. I'll never be 100% certain of anything that I haven't seen with my own two eyes, but I've watched Michael effortlessly solo quite a few routes of a reasonable caliber, and am reasonably confident that he wouldn't try to snowjob someone like Bachar. The rest of the world -- well, I'm not sure how much respect for the rest of the world Mike does or doesn't have.
Mike runs his mouth, he's abrasive, sometimes egocentric, loud, obnoxious, does things (the panties and Vagisil, for example) that look pretty stupid in hindsight... but the guy can and does solo difficult routes with very little effort. It's not unprecedented for someone to solo a difficult route; Scott Franklin soloed a 5.13 at the Gunks in the 80's, and Dean Potter solos 5.12ish routes all the time. But walking up to something like RW and firing it onsight with no room for error is pretty far out. Not unlike soloing New Dimensions, in fact. If there's one place Mike would pull that kind of stunt it is the Needles, and if there's one route to do it on, my money was on Romantic Warrior. And it still blew me away when the pictures came out. There are a lot of "what ifs" but in the end, soloing RW onsight is pretty rad.
Whether or not he needs his ego stroked, it was a significant jump in commitment, and whether or not a token nod from Climbing rag has any real relevance, the feat itself does.
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fracture
Apr 12, 2006, 1:51 AM
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In reply to: All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out.
I wasn't commenting on Reardon in particular (though I would imagine the vast majority of his free soloing is rehearsed).
The truth is, though, that I really don't care, because it has nothing to do with the sport I am interested in (which is not about boldness). But if they are going to give silly awards for boldness and Evel Knieval style stunts, people who free solo rock climbs are probably among the least deserving.
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fracture
Apr 12, 2006, 2:18 AM
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To further elaborate on free soloing, I'll make an analogy...
Imagine for a moment a game based on golf. You play according to the normal rules, but for every hole that you shoot a double bogey or worse, you have to play russian roulette with one extra bullet for each stroke past bogey. Penalty strokes count.
Now, how relevant to real golf is this game? Do you think Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods or anyone else who is actually interested in the game of golf would give a half a shit?
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 2:27 AM
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In reply to: To further elaborate on free soloing, I'll make an analogy... Imagine for a moment a game based on golf. You play according to the normal rules, but for every hole that you shoot a double bogey or worse, you have to play russian roulette with one extra bullet for each stroke past bogey. Penalty strokes count. Now, how relevant to real golf is this game? Do you think Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods or anyone else who is actually interested in the game of golf would give a half a shit?
Well, to further your analogy--both Palmer (back-in-the-day) and Woods are good enough golfers that this "new" variation on golf presents them with very little additional risk. Kind of like Michael Reardon and free-soloing. :wink:
Curt
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jt512
Apr 12, 2006, 2:57 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for. All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out.
You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation.
Jay
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 3:08 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for. All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out. You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay
You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference?
Curt
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ouch_quit_it
Apr 12, 2006, 3:26 AM
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this guy also deserves the golden piton:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/106717
michael reardon has done some amazing, incredible stuff that i could never, ever do. i'm sad that, probably, one day he'll die climbing. it's also sad that we're all being cheerleaders to his death.
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jt512
Apr 12, 2006, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for. All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out. You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt
You've seen me redpoint one -- but anyway. My "claims" are pretty banal. Mike's are grandiose; and it's not a question of you believing him, but the leading climbing magazine, which supposedly has some journalistic standards that would require convincing evidence, especially if they're going to give him an award. There is great controversy within the local climbing community as to whether Michael has "padded" his climbing resume. Rarely is anyone around to witness his major solos. In contrast, there are numerous people who say they have seen him fake soloing photos or back off routes (eg, Tossed Green (5.10a)) that one would think would be easy solos for someone who has accomplished what he has claimed. It's this imbalance that has led me to wonder if he's always telling the truth. I don't recall any shortage of witnesses for Croft's solos.
Jay
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jerryspringer
Apr 12, 2006, 3:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt
The difference is Jay has belayers, witnesses as well as disinterested third parties that can verify his claims. Reardon has none of the above, well except photochopped pic's. Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 3:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt The difference is Jay has belayers, witnesses as well as disinterested third parties that can verify his claims. Reardon has none of the above, well except photochopped pic's. Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it.
I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?"
Curt
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jerryspringer
Apr 12, 2006, 4:10 AM
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In reply to: I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?" Curt
That is my name you arrogant pissant, though most of my friends call me by my middle name Dave and I am a nobody. I also know Jay and have been witness to dozens of conversations with the local hardmen on this subject and I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 4:28 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?" Curt That is my name you arrogant pissant, though most of my friends call me by my middle name Dave and I am a nobody.
Hi Dave. Doesn't that one small attempt at honesty make you feel better about yourself? I'm sure it does.
In reply to: I also know Jay and have been witness to dozens of conversations with the local hardmen on this subject and I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
Well if you heard conversations that the local hardmen had on this subject, then that's good enough for me. :lol:
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 4:41 AM
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What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers?
If it were me (not to question his mindset, I know that I'll never solo anything, let alone anything that hard) I would much rather people not constantly question my accomplishments.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers?
Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 5:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers? Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D Curt
Haha, i didn't mean it like that. But you make a good point.
He has essentially chosen to be in the public eye. I mean, he could simply decline to be photographed all together, and decline to have any press coverage.
I think that once you put yourself out there, you establish a certain line of accountability to the people that you're panning yourself to.
But that's neither here or there. I'd just hate to be in his shoes and have people diminishing or questioning my accomplishments.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 5:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers? Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D Curt Haha, i didn't mean it like that. But you make a good point. He has essentially chosen to be in the public eye. I mean, he could simply decline to be photographed all together, and decline to have any press coverage. I think that once you put yourself out there, you establish a certain line of accountability to the people that you're panning yourself to. But that's neither here or there. I'd just hate to be in his shoes and have people diminishing or questioning my accomplishments.
You make a good point too. I know Michael and I have climbed with him. Michael is a very strong climber and he has never lied to me--as far as I know. So, my position is that I believe what he says until someone proves otherwise. It's just that simple.
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 5:13 AM
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I can definitely respect that. To clarify, I'm not a doubter. I don't know anything about the scene, and I've got a great deal of respect for anyone that climbs that hard, let alone ropeless.
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 5:39 AM
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In reply to: michael reardon has done some amazing, incredible stuff that i could never, ever do. i'm sad that, probably, one day he'll die climbing. it's also sad that we're all being cheerleaders to his death.
Why aren't Garibotti, Bachar, Croft, and Barber dead, then? Even Walt Shipley did not die during one of his crazy sick soloing episodes (he died kayaking).
It's quite possible that you're right and Mike will fall off something when it matters, but it's also possible that he'll calm down after a bit and do like Croft et al have done. Mike's got a wife and a daughter, and while he also has an ego, I'm reasonably hopeful that the former win out over the latter.
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kalcario
Apr 12, 2006, 5:55 AM
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In reply to: I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
This is true. It has only gone as far as it has because it is easy to fool people in LA, where no really good climbers live, so the uninitiated have no one to compare and contrast Reardon to. If this was going on in Climbing Magazine's back yard, i.e. someone was claiming outrageous free solos but no one ever saw him do anything, and what you did see him do convinced you he was nowhere near that level, then the only ink you would see in the mags would discredit, not support, those claims.
My favorite is the claim of 150 pitches at Tahquitz in a day. Those are trad pitches, so we're talking in the neighboorhood of 15,000-18,000 feet of climbing and descending in a long day, which I assume involved no night climbing. 30,000+ feet of altitude change in, say, 15 hours. The hiking equivalent of that would be doing the Mountaineers Route round trip from Whitney Portal twice, then back to the summit of Whitney, in a day. How stupid would you have to be to believe that...Caldwell took almost 24 hours to do 2 El Cap routes and descend 3000 feet between them, which is 9000 feet of altitude change in 24 hours.
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strangeday
Apr 12, 2006, 5:59 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it. John Bachar is now a nobody?
Hey Jerry, just wanted to let you know, I live and climb in So. Cal, and I believe every word of it. If someone of Bachar's status is willing to vouch for mike, along with others, thats good enough for me.
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 6:55 AM
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Joe,
What do you know about free solo climbing?
Have you ever climbed with MR out @ Tahquitz?
Are you aware that no matter how many times you climb Tahquitz in a row you will never be at an altitude close to the altitude at the summit of Whitney? Have you ever climbed the MR on Whitney? If you have I'm surprised you make this analogy.
How much time is involved placing gear, building anchors & waiting for your second to climb and clean each pitch?
Imagine climbing on an invisible TR, on easy ground (for you), how fast could you climb a pitch?
You close your mind to the possibility that these things may be true because you don't like Mike. I see your negative posts attached to every topic about him. Why do you take the MR news like a personal attack?
Wes
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 7:04 AM
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Joe,
A couple of weeks ago Mike did a series of in store appearances at REI(NR,HB,SD?). Plenty of notice was given. Questions were encouraged. How come you didn't come out and air your concerns/ questions?
In person. Face to face.
Wes
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 7:08 AM
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Joe,
A couple of weeks ago Mike did a series of in store appearances at REI(NR,HB,SD?). Plenty of notice was given. Questions were encouraged. How come you didn't come out and air your concerns/ questions?
In person. Face to face.
Wes
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kalcario
Apr 12, 2006, 7:18 AM
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*You close your mind to the possibility that these things may be true because you don't like Mike. I see your negative posts attached to every topic about him. Why do you take the MR news like a personal attack? *
Nothing personal, just common sense.
Ok, try this. The fastest Croft and Schultz ever did the Nose, after having done the thing dozens of times between them, was 4 1/2 hours - 7 pitches an hour. At that rate, how long would it take to do 150 pitches. Yes, that's right, 21 hours. But we're not talking about just 150 pitches, are we, because you have to *descend* those pitches, too, either by running around the backside or by downclimbing the pitches. Downclimbing would count as part of the 150, but would slow you down to where you'd be doing, at most, 3 or 4 pitches an hour, not 7. I don't need to know somebody to know what is and isn't possible.
What is the hardest thing you personally have seen him free solo?
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bdplayer
Apr 12, 2006, 12:03 PM
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In reply to: I wasn't commenting on Reardon in particular (though I would imagine the vast majority of his free soloing is rehearsed). The truth is, though, that I really don't care, because it has nothing to do with the sport I am interested in (which is not about boldness). But if they are going to give silly awards for boldness and Evel Knieval style stunts, people who free solo rock climbs are probably among the least deserving.
Who cares if free soloing is "rehearsed." You can die just as easily on a 5.5, as a 5.12 if you screw up. Granted, it's a lot less likely, but the ground doesn't care where you came from once you peel off.
I don't think that the award for free climbing is for ballsiness. It's more of an appreciation for the guy who just climbs. Nothing weighing him down, nothing to fall back on, nothing getting between him and the rock.
Freesoloing is a scary thing. But there is nothing like it, in my opinion. I jumped out of a perfectly good aircraft yesterday, but the whole time I was thinking about how much better it is to be on the rock.
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tonloc
Apr 12, 2006, 1:37 PM
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not sure why people are so up in arms about it...unless you are a friend there is no reason to be offended one way or the other about it...it was pretty badass what he did, he had people watch him solo the hard parts later right? That alone is pretty badass, even if it was rehearsed...anyways im no hater i busted my leg up peeling off of a V6 today so i'm not threatened by his accomplishments or the implications thereof...
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j_ung
Apr 12, 2006, 1:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: what i find interesting is how it only took 4 posts for you guys to start bashing the michael-bashers, even though none of them has posted here yet. relax a little; let's not hijack this thread prematurely. my congrats to Mr. Reardon for this recognition of his achievements. peace :oops: You're right. Thanks for the reality check.
I really should have waited until the second page. :lol:
Hey jerryspringer, what's your whole name?
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keinangst
Apr 12, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Forget all the name-dropping and ego stroking for a second...
Not to denigrate Michael's skill or choice of pursuits in any way, I just think it's irresponsible for a mainstream climbing publication to glorify this pursuit to an audience that has the physical (but probably not mental) capability of imitating this pursuit. Maybe I'm way off-base, but I feel that mainstream rags with large audiences ought to stick to roped climbing and leave freesoloing to those who are individually prepared. In contrast, Baffin expeditions and similar "dangerous" activities in the mag have an inherently higher barrier to entry (cost, logistics), while freesoloing can be imitated by any jackass at the local crag.
Are they going to add a "Tech Tips: Freesoloing" section?
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 2:50 PM
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Why should Climbing rag care if you die doing something stupid?
Their job is to move product, not babysit idiots. In fact, the dumber their audience is, the better chance they have of moving product.
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brogant
Apr 12, 2006, 2:54 PM
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Someone above wrote:
"Nothing personal, just common sense.
Ok, try this. The fastest Croft and Schultz ever did the Nose, after having done the thing dozens of times between them, was 4 1/2 hours - 7 pitches an hour. At that rate, how long would it take to do 150 pitches. Yes, that's right, 21 hours. But we're not talking about just 150 pitches, are we, because you have to *descend* those pitches, too, either by running around the backside or by downclimbing the pitches. Downclimbing would count as part of the 150, but would slow you down to where you'd be doing, at most, 3 or 4 pitches an hour, not 7. I don't need to know somebody to know what is and isn't possible."
You don't know much about soloing. I am a climber of limited talent, and I have soloed 33 pitches at Tahquitz in 4 hours. I have also soloed the Regular route on Fairview (9 pithes) in 55 minutes. So your time estimate of 3 or 4 pitches an hour is way off. I also know Mike and believe that if I can solo 33 pitches in 4 hours he can and did solo 150 pitches in 15 hours. At the rate I was doing my routes I would have done 120 pitches in 16 hours.
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golsen
Apr 12, 2006, 3:43 PM
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There are so many idiotic posts in this thread I am not sure where to begin. Let me start here:
In reply to: To further elaborate on free soloing, I'll make an analogy... Imagine for a moment a game based on golf. You play according to the normal rules, but for every hole that you shoot a double bogey or worse, you have to play russian roulette with one extra bullet for each stroke past bogey. Penalty strokes count. Now, how relevant to real golf is this game? Do you think Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods or anyone else who is actually interested in the game of golf would give a half a s---?
Fracture, your views are so narrow minded and you seem to take great pleasure in spouting them off, merely illustrating your ignorance of what climbing was and how it used to be. I cannot pretend to know everything about how climbing started, but I can tell you from my short 30 years of involvement in the sport that boldness was a big part of the sport in the 70's and 80's. And for some (like Michael Reardon) boldness is still a huge part of it. Russian Roulette? You moron. If you know you can really climb something, sans rope, is it russian roulette? One may argue that if you cant climb say 5.10 without a rope how can you call yourself a 5.10 climber? I am not saying that your little world of highly technical short climbs is wrong. What I am saying is that the sport of climbing evolved today to encompass many facets which includes your "safe" world of sport climbs and toproping.
The truly great accomplishments of climbing will almost certainly involve discussions of boldness, like climbing the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat. Climbs that involve more than all out difficulty because those climbs require the climber to reach deeper into themselves than simply all out difficulty. While I have nothing but respect for the Chris Sharma's and Fred Nicole's who pursue the utmost of difficulty, I have greater respect for someone like Steve House, whose climbs required him to have the utmost confidence in his abilities due to the cost of failure.
Climbing is many things to many different people. To say that sport climbers suck or trad climbers suck or boulderers suck simply shows a narrow minded viewpoint. It is the narrow minded climber who is missing out. And those who do not understand the history of the sport are perhaps missing out most of all.
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golsen
Apr 12, 2006, 3:52 PM
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One last thought. Most of us are just a bunch of wankers. If you can go solo what Reardon has and put him to shame, go for it.
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hasbeen
Apr 12, 2006, 4:04 PM
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I'm also interested in what anyone has personally seen Michael solo, especially unrehearsed. There are many many holes in his claims. Things that don't make sense, ect. I can go on and on about this but I'll leave it alone.
He's a good climber, compared to most people, no question. His claims, however, far outweigh anything that's been witnessed that I know of. I've seen him many times. I've only actually seen him climbing once. That day, he couldn't redpoint, in an entire day, a simple 3-bolt 12a. This was a couple of years ago and he could have been having a bad day, but I've not heard of one person who has witnessed him actually doing anything harder than V5. And I know a lot of people who have seen him climbing.
What I'm curious about is WHY he might even attempt to solo RM--not to mention that his only witness claims to be a professional photographer, went back with him to take staged photos where huge amounts of effort were required to pose on the route at various places. Yet this photog somehow didn't manage to even get a cell phone pic of the actually ascent, which he witnessed. Hmm, a bad business decision, at the very least. But, anyway, MR claims that he's training to solo the Rostrum. This route has been solo'd a ton and Peter Croft has solo'd it in both directions. This same guy, Croft, couldn't do Romantic Warrior. I don't mean solo, or redpoint, I mean finish the climb. He couldn't get up it. What would make Reardon believe he had the ability to free solo such a thing based on this? He would have to, on a daily basis, climb circles around guys like Croft. From what I've seen, this just isn't the case.
In SoCal, I've not heard from one single person who has witnessed anything of note. Mainly their reports of MR are a guy who hangs around at the crags talking all the time, occasionally soloing something quite easy. I've heard the--recently--he backed off a 5.10 at Josh. Again, this doesn't mean much, we all have bad days. But, still, I've heard many first hand reports of less-than-stellar climbing performance and none--zero--of anything noteworthy.
So, ya know, I'm just curious if anyone's actually seen anything that might lead you to believe he would onsight solo something that Peter Croft couldn't do with a rope.
For the record--since many of you seem to believe what R&I prints without question--he was not a producer on Cabin Fever (which R&I claimed is how he made his fortune and titled the article about him). Producers, according to Union rules, must be listed in the credits. Cabin Fever has six producers, none of them named Michael Reardon. He was, however, credited as an extra in the film. You might also, if you're curious about whether or not he might lie, check the state bar association and see if he is actually a lawyer. It's public record, and his name must be listed if he passed the bar.
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nuts_r_us
Apr 12, 2006, 4:12 PM
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I am so glad this has turned into a Reardon-bashing thread like the others. I was thinking it would be a pretty boring thread otherwise.
R&I and Climbing both suck. I don't care what this guy does or does not do. If he lies about it or if he doesn't, it doesn't affect me at all. I think he is foolish for the risks he takes, but that's his choice, and as long as access is not threatened by his actions, that's his choice.
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hasbeen
Apr 12, 2006, 4:25 PM
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For the record, I don't think you can call my post Reardon bashing. I'm asking a perfectly legitimate question. I'm just curious. As a climbing history buff, what people do is important to me. Therefore, when people are lying about major accomplishments, it's important. I don't care at all about people lying about stuff down at the bar. That can be very amusing, in fact. But when someone starts winning awards for things that, at best, leave a lot of questions unanswered, I can't help but be curious.
Also, on Bachar's statements making this true, well, what has Bachar witnessed? All I've seen, other than him saying MR out solo'd him one day on easy stuff was that he "almost did a V8 in a day." I almost do V8's in a day all the time. Sometiimes I've even done V8s in a day. I've also solo'd a hundred really easy pitches in a day. But I wouldn't attempt to solo RM for all the whiskey in Ireland.
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hasbeen
Apr 12, 2006, 4:39 PM
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Um, I've seen that movie and, I believe, done all the routes that he solos. There is no move in that vid harder than V3 or 4. In fact, I put up the hardest route he solo'd and they up-rated it for the vid. It's probably 12a and about 30' tall. The "12a" he solos is, like, 11b and a jug haul. EBGB's is scary, sure, but it's 5.10. And, like someone else pointed out, the last move of EBGBs is no fall with or without a rope.
To make my question more clear, have you seen him solo something that you think Peter Croft might think twice about?
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sidepull
Apr 12, 2006, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: To further elaborate on free soloing, I'll make an analogy... Imagine for a moment a game based on golf. You play according to the normal rules, but for every hole that you shoot a double bogey or worse, you have to play russian roulette with one extra bullet for each stroke past bogey. Penalty strokes count. Now, how relevant to real golf is this game? Do you think Arnold Palmer or Tiger Woods or anyone else who is actually interested in the game of golf would give a half a s---?
In reply to: The truly great accomplishments of climbing will almost certainly involve discussions of boldness, like climbing the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat. Climbs that involve more than all out difficulty because those climbs require the climber to reach deeper into themselves than simply all out difficulty. While I have nothing but respect for the Chris Sharma's and Fred Nicole's who pursue the utmost of difficulty, I have greater respect for someone like Steve House, whose climbs required him to have the utmost confidence in his abilities due to the cost of failure.
Although these two disagree - I think these are both well thought out and interesting arguments.
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fracture
Apr 12, 2006, 5:06 PM
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In reply to: Climbing is many things to many different people. To say that sport climbers suck or trad climbers suck or boulderers suck simply shows a narrow minded viewpoint. It is the narrow minded climber who is missing out.
I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said is that free soloing has absolutely nothing to do with the sport I am interested in (whatever you want to call it). The sport I am interested in is about difficult climbing movement, it is not about walking up mountains, risking death or injury, or zealously promulgating various neo-religious systems of so-called "ethics".
In reply to: And those who do not understand the history of the sport are perhaps missing out most of all.
Actually, I have done quite a bit of reading on the history of the sport---it is excellent comedy.
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murf
Apr 12, 2006, 5:15 PM
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In reply to: Downclimbing would count as part of the 150, but would slow you down to where you'd be doing, at most, 3 or 4 pitches an hour, not 7. I don't need to know somebody to know what is and isn't possible.
Lets say you just want to have a rad total pitch count... You just go up and down The Trough... Off the top of my head, I'd say the Trough is 4 pitches, but lets make it 5 'cause I can't do complex math.
You could probably get up it in less than 10 mins and down in less than say, 15 mins? Lets just make the round trip 30 mins. In an hour ( 2 round trips ), you could tick 20 pitches... So just doing Trough runs at this rate you need 7.5 hours to get 150 pitches.
I see where you're coming from Joe, but I think you could through together some pitch counts and Trough downclimbs to get to 150 pitches in a day. Even if the Trough is 4 pitches ( can't remember ), you could still conceive of pitches/pitch times that would work out.
There are many reasonable questions to ask about MR's press, I think this one is probably not one to worry about too much.
As for all the publicity, someone should be selling "Be Like Mike" shirts.
Murf
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grayhghost
Apr 12, 2006, 5:38 PM
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Fracture Wrote:
In reply to: And those who do not understand the history of the sport are perhaps missing out most of all.
http://igoresha.virtualave.net/Art/monkey_in_tree.png
I believe there was climbing long before there were ropes, so please, review your history and do some barefoot-naked-free-soloing.
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caughtinside
Apr 12, 2006, 5:44 PM
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Congratulations to MR on winning a prestigious fake award from a barely relevant publication which made it up to add an extra issue of recycled content.
Dude, nice going on your 2005 Golden Piton! Yeah!
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reg
Apr 12, 2006, 5:58 PM
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i wish people - zines, vids, whatever - would stop glamorizing free soloing. that will only influence young minds to try it - leading to more deaths. not good. climbing - in my opinion - is about the knowledge and use of protection to gain the summits. anyone can can climb - where designed for that - being around to talk about the adventure the next day is where it's at. free soloing is a selfish endeavor.
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reno
Apr 12, 2006, 6:15 PM
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In reply to: My favorite is the claim of 150 pitches at Tahquitz in a day. Those are trad pitches, so we're talking in the neighboorhood of 15,000-18,000 feet of climbing and descending in a long day, which I assume involved no night climbing. 30,000+ feet of altitude change in, say, 15 hours. The hiking equivalent of that would be doing the Mountaineers Route round trip from Whitney Portal twice, then back to the summit of Whitney, in a day. How stupid would you have to be to believe that....
Not. Even. Close.
Going from, say, 4000 feet MSL to 6000 feet MSL is a 2000 foot altitude change. Doing that 9 times is NOT the same as going from sea level to the top of Denali.
Altitude changes are not cummulative in the physiological sense. That is, 2000 feet twice does not equal 4000 feet once.
At least not according to the body's response.
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thatnameisalreadychosen
Apr 12, 2006, 6:20 PM
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Congrats Mike!
Watching you climb is an inspiration - havent seen you at malibu in a while!
Keep it up, but make sure youll be around to join us in these crazy threads!
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wilcox510
Apr 12, 2006, 7:24 PM
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Michael is obviously an amazing climber, and I have no reason to doubt any of his claims, so congrats on the award. but, as others have said, I have a hard timing giving much respect to someone who litters the backcountry with underwear, Vagisil, little toy figurines, or whatever other crap he has left in places. and if someone has to leave that kind of crap in the mountains to prove that they were there, I think they were there for the wrong reasons.
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coldclimb
Apr 12, 2006, 7:36 PM
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In reply to: Michael is obviously an amazing climber, and I have no reason to doubt any of his claims, so congrats on the award. but, as others have said, I have a hard timing giving much respect to someone who litters the backcountry with underwear, Vagisil, little toy figurines, or whatever other crap he has left in places. and if someone has to leave that kind of crap in the mountains to prove that they were there, I think they were there for the wrong reasons.
Well he just can't get it right, can he? Obviously he needs to prove he's been there because if he doesn't, then he never was, and all his claims are false and he's an idiot poser. But if he DOES prove he did it, he's doing it for the wrong reasons.
*sigh* People suck.
Keep climbing Mike, and stay off the deck long enough for me to meet you someday, eh? ;)
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: free soloing is a selfish endeavor.
So is climbing. Think for yourself and make your own decisions, based on the amount of risk you are comfortable with, given the potential consequences.
The media should do more to glamorize free soloing -- maybe it will help restore some selective pressure to the species.
I share some of Joe Hedge's reservations regarding the more outlandish claims, but his numbers assume, say, continuous 100' pitches with descents. It's entirely possible that Michael counted pitches downclimbed, short pitches, etc. as when he recorded his soloing binge in Josh.
Greg Epperson led 40 pitches for his 40th birthday in Josh, and he finished up shortly after noon. I was there for that feat. I wasn't around to see Mike on one of his marathon days, so I can't vouch, but it's not outside the realm of possibility if you dispel some of the assumptions Joe made. If you accept the assumptions (100' pitches, no downclimbed pitches count, daylight only) then of course it is absurd to believe the claim.
Thanks for injecting some reality back into this, although I still think John Bachar is harder to fool than most. Of course, maybe he's in on the joke. Either way, people are (once again) talking about Mike, which almost certainly delights him. This probably is not what the detractors wanted.
There will always be doubt in my mind about radical feats I was not personally present to witness. I would hope the same applies to others. Nonetheless, if Bachar is going to vouch for something like Mike onsight free soloing RW, there's at least some measure of support for believing it.
Until Mike repeats it while I'm around, I can never be 100% sure that he did what he said, but in my mind the odds are in favor of him doing it, even if only to leave his mark.
Make up your own mind, I'm not going to tell you what to think or how to climb. If you think you're up to the task, go ahead and solo. If you crater, I guess that means you guessed wrong. It's your life.
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macherry
Apr 12, 2006, 7:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Michael is obviously an amazing climber, and I have no reason to doubt any of his claims, so congrats on the award. but, as others have said, I have a hard timing giving much respect to someone who litters the backcountry with underwear, Vagisil, little toy figurines, or whatever other crap he has left in places. and if someone has to leave that kind of crap in the mountains to prove that they were there, I think they were there for the wrong reasons. Well he just can't get it right, can he? Obviously he needs to prove he's been there because if he doesn't, then he never was, and all his claims are false and he's an idiot poser. But if he DOES prove he did it, he's doing it for the wrong reasons. *sigh* People suck. Keep climbing Mike, and stay off the deck long enough for me to meet you someday, eh? ;)
i have no problem accepting what michael does, but i do have problems with him littering climbs with panties and other assorted items. Why the need to leave all that junk. If he's happy with what he does, then there's no need to disprove the naysayers
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wilcox510
Apr 12, 2006, 7:58 PM
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coldclimb - I think you missed something in my point, I said I believe his claims, i have no reason to believe he is lying or making stuff up. Obviously other people doubt, him, but I dont, nor do I really care whether he did those things or not. But I do care that he's littering in the backcountry, even if its in an area that i've never been to and may never see. I think its kinda sad and juvenile that someone needs to litter in order to prove they've done something they claimed to have done. and again, if you're free soloing routes for yourself, why do you need to litter to prove it to others?
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fracture
Apr 12, 2006, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: Fracture Wrote: In reply to: And those who do not understand the history of the sport are perhaps missing out most of all.
No, I did not write that. Please watch your attributions.
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kalcario
Apr 13, 2006, 1:46 AM
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In reply to: You don't know much about soloing. I am a climber of limited talent, and I have soloed 33 pitches at Tahquitz in 4 hours. I have also soloed the Regular route on Fairview (9 pithes) in 55 minutes. So your time estimate of 3 or 4 pitches an hour is way off. I also know Mike and believe that if I can solo 33 pitches in 4 hours he can and did solo 150 pitches in 15 hours. At the rate I was doing my routes I would have done 120 pitches in 16 hours.
My estimate was for 7 pitches an hour, and it was based on watching Croft and Schultz going balls-out fast on the Nose. If you had watched those guys you would have a hard time believing that anyone could climb faster than that. But you'd have to climb twice as fast as those guys, for 3-4 times as long, to do 150 pitches of climbing AND descending in 15 hours.
Back in the day Bachar could do Fairview in 45 minutes car-to-car. If he kept up that pace he'd get to 15000 up and 15000 down in 11 hours. Sounds good on paper...but do you think anybody could do Fairview Dome 15 times in one day? Because that's what 150 pitches at Tahquitz in a day is.
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curt
Apr 13, 2006, 2:32 AM
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Well, John Bachar posts at RC.com now--and he has most likely noticed this thread. He is in an excellent position to offer some meaningful content here. Hopefully, he'll eventually offer his opinions.
Curt
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petsfed
Apr 13, 2006, 2:38 AM
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In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for.
Why? So you can have somebody else tell you what a good (or bad) game is? I mean really, no matter what, you're paying for somebody else to tell you what your opinion is, so you didn't have to go and buy something to find out you were wrong. We can't always go to the internet for info, and I certainly don't mind buying Climbing, or Rock and Ice, or even Alpinist (which is just a refinement of the others), if only for something to read on rest days.
Even their reviews are pretty crappy, but who wants to read Better Homes & Gardens on day 12 of their Indian Creek trip? We are, unfortunately, a captive audience. And so long as Urban Climber pumps out articles I REALLY don't care about, I'm stuck with Climbing and R&I, because I can't afford (and don't care for) the fancy words of Alpinist.
All that said, good for Mike. Even if he's faking, he's doing a good enough job to get noticed, and that's saying something.
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hasbeen
Apr 13, 2006, 3:18 PM
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So I'll take the lack of any response to my posts that none of the people here who so dogmaticallly support MR have never actually seen him do anything close to what he claims.
This is true, no?
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happiegrrrl
Apr 13, 2006, 3:48 PM
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There's an old saying...."Keep the focus on yourself." An amazingly powerful concept, when put into practice, that allows one to completely turn around their perception of themselves, and others, within this (appx) five dimensional world. For those with opinions they voice without the disclaimer of "I think"(for everyone is entitled to their opinion; it's when we speak as if we actually have any idea whatsoever on what the truth in life is, that we speak stupidly). I would like to suggest they try it as an experiment.
Same concept, different era - "take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently"(from a 70's folk song).
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golsen
Apr 13, 2006, 4:03 PM
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happiegrl, how dare you try to infect this thread with reason! Apparently nobody knows here for sure whether Mr. Reardon did in fact climb what he said. In the old days we used to believe the climber unless there was very substantial evidence otherwise. That is my opinion. It really does not affect me and probably does not affect anyone else on this site whether he did or did not do what he said. It would seem that there are people on this site who just plain do not like the guy. Is this clouding their judgement because he does not meet their expectations?
whatever...
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brogant
Apr 13, 2006, 6:29 PM
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Michael responds:
"Hi Thomas,
Well well well. I leave the forums for the better part of two years and it looks like the haters remain the same. Apparently some kids want to keep crying because I chose to climb rather than get carpal tunnel. I could care less about what folks think about my climbing because dates, times, witnesses, videos, photos and friends like Bachar and the Outlaws apparently are not enough, but I have had enough of the lies about my business practice. Feel free to post as you see fit:
1. I'm not a lawyer and have never claimed to be one as anyone who has ever asked me personally knows. I went to Pepperdine Law School, graduated with a JD. My UCLA undergrad degree was in philosophy where I earned a scholarship from the Wasserman Foundation (Wasserman was the last of the major media moguls - see a connection here). I did NOT take the bar, never intended to. I wanted the law degree to continue making films. I got it, and continue to make films.
2. I owned a production company with two other partners called "Black Sky Entertainment". That production company made "Cabin Fever" among other films, it's the second credit in the opening of the film, right after Lionsgate (you know, small billion dollar, oscar winning studio). Prior to Black Sky, I ran business affairs for Harvey Entertainment and was part of plenty of film and television projects including "Casper's Haunted Christmas". In Hollywood as in any other field, if you can give credit and collect a paycheck, then you will always have a job. My boss at Harvey made 300 films and is listed on only four of them, yet like myself, continues to collect checks. It's how business works. My current production company is Jumprunner Productions which made the Bachar film. I also have a handful of scripts currently out there, some of which I've already been paid for and/or are in production.
As for the nonsense about me walking away from from 5.10s, I've walked away from 5.4s, it's the reason I'm still alive after 17 years of soloing. Jealousy makes for a hateful life, it's a shame that some climbers wish to act that way and is the part of the community that I will never be associated with. I climb, some people need to get over it.
Looking forward to seeing you out there!
Michael"
There you have it. From the man to me to you! Now quit your whinning and go climb something!
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heximp
Apr 13, 2006, 6:34 PM
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I am very happy for Reardon...
Actually if you hung out at Stoney Point long enough... You will know that Michael Reardon has always been the first person to help anyone that is struggling on a climb. He also is the first person to cheer when you top out...
So for all you "ego" bashing idiots... Yes, Reardon has the big mouth of a class clown... He is also the nicest guy... I even think he would be the type to take the ugliest girl to the prom... He would do it to make her smile and... To stick it to all the assholes in the world who won't like seeing her there smiling.
As for the pantie thing... (What do you expect from a man with the personality of the class clown? It's his signature...)
What? Do panties threaten you?
Talk about having issues...
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macherry
Apr 13, 2006, 6:38 PM
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panties and vagisil are not threatening, but littering all that shit is.........to the environment
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billcoe_
Apr 13, 2006, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it." This is true. It has only gone as far as it has because it is easy to fool people in LA, where no really good climbers live, so the uninitiated have no one to compare and contrast Reardon to.
Joe: P...LLL.....EEE.....AAA...SS.S..SSSSSSSSSSS...EEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Do you even read the stuff you write?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Bogant, thanks for the update.
Still laughing. :lol:
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krusher4
Apr 13, 2006, 8:00 PM
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well, regardless of the whole did he climb RW or not he did rap in an climb some damn hard stuff for his photos in climbing and if those pitches were not the second time that he had climbed them he then on-sited them, on on-site of 5.11d is pretty impressive. He probably checks out these threads and loves the attention LOL. So let's give him our best stuff.
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westhegimp
Apr 14, 2006, 4:20 AM
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joe and neverwas,
You and I know that no matter what I say, or what photos or video I produce you still wont admit your wrong. If I answer every one of your questions perfectly, or provide the proof that you require, you still wont admit your wrong. You guys have had a hard on for Mike for a long time, and its not going away anytime soon. Sort of pathetic.
Wes
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westhegimp
Apr 14, 2006, 4:37 AM
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hasbeen/neverwas.
Ive never seen you climb, & nobody I know has ever seen you climb...see where I'm going? I think you are a LIAR! I need proof that you climb hard stuff!!!!
On second thought never mind, nobody cares about your pathetic climbing resume.
Love, Wes.
Now STFU!
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westhegimp
Apr 14, 2006, 5:45 AM
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jt531,
I get it now. You were the guy @ Stoney eye f***ing Mike a couple of weeks ago. At the time I was like 'who's that guy, Mike?' and he just shrugged. I was getting a bad vibe off you. I could feel it. I was waiting for you to ask your question or make your accusation. Then I came to my senses... I'm just being paranoid. So I climbed on.
Well it turns out I was right!! There was something smelly out there by Boulder 1 and it wasn't just me!
But as history proves, I didn't need to worry, you didn't have your computer with you that day.:lol:
Best to you and your buddies.
Wes
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kalcario
Apr 14, 2006, 6:25 AM
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In reply to: joe and neverwas, You and I know that no matter what I say, or what photos or video I produce you still wont admit your wrong. Wes
Photos I might doubt, you know how easy it is to Photoshop a rope out of a picture, but convincingly taking a rope out of a video is neither easy or cheap. Video of the Beaver, or of Baby Apes, which Bachar could crank off ropeless with zero effort 20 years ago, would put a lot of doubts to rest, as would doing those same free solos in front of people. Jtree is one of the most popular climbing areas in the world, and Mike has filmed and put out a series of climbing videos. Yet no one has witnessed him soloing anything noteworthy (you won't even tell us what you've witnessed) and the only video of him anyone's seen is of a 5.10 at Josh and a few 30' 12a's. In Yosemite in the 80's it was hard NOT to see Bachar, Croft, Schultz, Werner free soloing - just not anywhere near the level Mike is claiming.
So, do you actually have videos, or not?
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westhegimp
Apr 14, 2006, 7:09 AM
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Joe,
If some 30' 5.12 solos wont work for you, are you sure video of the Beaver or BA will? I'm not so sure.
Wes
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heximp
Apr 14, 2006, 8:43 AM
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Uhmmm... I saw him...
(Girl in the back raises her hand.)
He was climbing two weeks ago with Bachar in Josh doing 5.12's...
Anyway... Call me a liar, I don't care... It is not my worry for the truth always comes out. (I learned a very good, hard lesson about that today.)
Plus, since photoshop can do so many wonders... Give me a picture that looks like Reardon's. It should not be too hard since you're very sure that is what Reardon is doing...
Then again, since you are a wrong and very bitter about something... Your's will look like a fake for obvious reasons.
I'll keep my money on Reardon, he has always been honest enough to pay up... Plus, he doesn't attack people he doesn't know anything about except for paranoid feelings... (That is so not cool.)
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kydd76
Apr 14, 2006, 12:18 PM
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I could give an f***. If he is doing the stuff he said great, if not so what. As far a golden piton, what good is it with out a bling chain. What about the grill, let me see your grill. Second he is not a lawyer, to go to law school in the states is helpful in any industry since every one is sue happy. I didn’t care for cabin as a movie, good b rate horror film, but then who am I, but just a dude who like movies. If you can’t climb v+++ e6 5.12d on-sight, who cares, of you how can, who cares? Climb the millions of fun routes for you; don’t worry about all the rest. It sounds like mike is having a blast, doing what he does. More power too you, mike. I think you should repeat the traverse and carry a trash bag as penitence for your panties, fill er up.
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jt512
Apr 14, 2006, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: jt531, I get it now. You were the guy @ Stoney eye f***ing Mike a couple of weeks ago. At the time I was like 'who's that guy, Mike?' and he just shrugged. I was getting a bad vibe off you. I could feel it. I was waiting for you to ask your question or make your accusation. Then I came to my senses... I'm just being paranoid. So I climbed on. Well it turns out I was right!! There was something smelly out there by Boulder 1 and it wasn't just me! But as history proves, I didn't need to worry, you didn't have your computer with you that day.:lol: Best to you and your buddies. Wes
Wes,
Chill.
How could any child of the seventies not get excited when he sees Michael. The resemblence to Farah Fawcett is almost too much to bear.
http://members.fortunecity.com/...ies/seventies010.jpg
That said, I haven't been to Stoney in a decade.
Jay
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mtnfr34k
Apr 15, 2006, 5:13 PM
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Another congratulations to Reardon for the Golden Piton - it was a great accomplishment.
And thank you to Climbing magazine for establishing the Golden Piton Awards. After the last few years of questionable Piolet d'Or Awards, I'm glad to see that there is a similar award being given here in North America. Hopefully the competition will start to create a more balanced view of climbing accomplishments.
P.S. To the concerns of litter on the Palisade traverse - the items that Reardon left behind were in summit registers (at least the four that I came across), not just randomly left on the route. I didn't see it any differently than those Sierra Clubbers that insist on leaving keychain momentos in the registers too.
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shanz
Apr 15, 2006, 5:57 PM
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First - grats mike - as if you care about a golden piton
2nd - all this whining about proving this or that Ive sat around many a campfire and heard at every one, that this person on sited this or red pointed that hrm -- kinda arrogant and self absorbed? Nah just talking about how they did climbing and what goals they accomplished. And just because the person who nailed this climb and didn't come running up to me telling me i have to watch them do it, do i doubt them? Nope
3rd reminds me of the Dan Osman controversy.. Seems to me the like people doing things that are different from the "norm" are always subject to criticism by those who aren't doing it themselves
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dirtineye
Apr 15, 2006, 6:03 PM
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I have no idea if MR did it or didn't, but my experiences with free soloing says that free soloists usually do not fool themselves, or others.
There's not much to gain and too much to lose.
So if he says he did it, I believe him.
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overlord
Apr 15, 2006, 6:05 PM
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congrats. he definitely deserves it.
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westhegimp
Apr 16, 2006, 8:25 AM
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jt512,
If that wasn't you, than I saw the guy in your profile pic. I thought he was going stab me when I said "hey, hows it going?" But if it wasn't you then, my bad. :oops:
By the way I need to see video of all your 512 sends. Not photos. Also the 12s must be over 30' to count.
Chillin,
Wes
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fracture
Apr 17, 2006, 3:46 PM
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In reply to: Even their reviews are pretty crappy, but who wants to read Better Homes & Gardens on day 12 of their Indian Creek trip? We are, unfortunately, a captive audience. And so long as Urban Climber pumps out articles I REALLY don't care about, I'm stuck with Climbing and R&I, because I can't afford (and don't care for) the fancy words of Alpinist.
Captive audience? Believe it or not, I have interests other than rock climbing, and the list of books on my to-read list is always sufficiently long that the likes of R&I or Climbing aren't particularly tempting.
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fracture
Apr 17, 2006, 3:49 PM
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In reply to: Even their reviews are pretty crappy, but who wants to read Better Homes & Gardens on day 12 of their Indian Creek trip? We are, unfortunately, a captive audience. And so long as Urban Climber pumps out articles I REALLY don't care about, I'm stuck with Climbing and R&I, because I can't afford (and don't care for) the fancy words of Alpinist.
Captive audience? Believe it or not, I have interests other than rock climbing, and the list of books on my to-read list is always sufficiently long that the likes of R&I or Climbing aren't particularly tempting.
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billcoe_
Apr 19, 2006, 5:02 AM
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You can test it and check it all you want but it's probably not you anyway. That being said, this is probably not me either.
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kalcario
Apr 19, 2006, 5:52 AM
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What is that route, how hard is it, what else have you seen, and what's the hardest thing you've seen him solo. You don't have to post pictures.
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fracture
Apr 19, 2006, 3:10 PM
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How tall is that route?
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bagre_rei
Apr 20, 2006, 1:31 PM
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First, kudos to Michael Reardon. Accomplishing a highly desired route by his choice method should have been extremely satisfying to him and there is nothing left to the rest of us but to be happy about it.
But there is more than a personal goal in this discussion. Besides being tainted by some hate mail, I think that this thread brought something of an important issue to everybody involved in climbing.
Is soloing ethic?
If not, Climbing Magazine is at fault by awarding anything made that way. If yes, certainly it's going to be a long way to everybody to accept it, and it's players, and the way they do their business.
About the question, it´s a very close call. On the pro-soloing side you have the fact that, as a Brazilian eventual soloist said, "the world changes" when you let go the rope and the harness. You experience stronger feelings when soloing and that's evident. On the cons side you have the fact that things other than your personal limitations can cause a fall, and the consequences are terrible, not just for the climber, but for his/her family, friends, health care public services, etc...
In my opinion, sport soloing is bad climbing. There is more in life than climbing a pitch. The extra thrill just ain't enough motivation to put your life at stake.
Hard trad routes, highball bouldering, extreme high altitude climbs are all games where there is life risk. But the players use all the safety measures to try to keep a fair game. When you give all that up and a single broken hold can kill you in a route that has been climbed over and over again (including by you) it's not sport anymore.
P.S. First post. I don't climb sh**t and I'm nobody.
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mtnfr34k
Apr 21, 2006, 5:51 AM
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I have to disagree. Climbers have been soloing since Ugh Climalot made the first known ascent (solo) of Mt. Ig 75,000 years ago. More recently, solo climbing has existed since the earliest modern records. Think about Ed Whymper (sic?), Clyde Soles. Soloing is a tradition just as old as any in modern climbing.
I don't take on the risks of big wave surfing or nascar race driving. Nor do you have to take on the same risks of solo climbers. But soloing should be recognized for its contributions and accomplishments, not criticized for the high level of risk its participants choose to accept.
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hasbeen
Apr 21, 2006, 5:02 PM
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In reply to: joe and neverwas, You and I know that no matter what I say, or what photos or video I produce you still wont admit your wrong. If I answer every one of your questions perfectly, or provide the proof that you require, you still wont admit your wrong. You guys have had a hard on for Mike for a long time, and its not going away anytime soon. Sort of pathetic. Wes
What would make you say something like this? I certainly have nothing personal against Michael. He's loud, can be obnoxious, but I find his enthusiasm and personality kind of infectious and cool. He's very positive and supportive, which is a great characteristic in my opinion. I would like to believe him. Not to mention that there's not much better in life than when someone greatly rasises their level of performance due to dedication, motivation, and hard work. These are my favorite stories in all of sports.
However, one cannot deny that there are holes in many of his claims. He brings these on himself so, obviously, he either wants the controversy or isn't telling the entire truth.
For example, he would know, for sure, that his Palisades Traverse claim would come under scrutiny. So why not sign the registers? That would be the ultimate 'FY' to his detractors. Instead, he litters the summits with weird stuff. Okay, it's littering, but whateever. Then, however, when someone who was up there on the day he claimed to do this said he'd seen no such items in the registers he says that he didn't always place them on the actual summits, but hid them in various places. This is odd, no?
Each story seems to have a similar hole in it. As a historian,, or just someone truly interested in climbing, it's just blind faith to ignore these facts. I see no reason not to ask questions. In any credible field, they would be asked.
His soloist site has a bunch of odd pics that have been taken down. For example, he had a pic hanging from the finishing jug of Maximum Ghetto. When it was pointed out that a pic from any other spot except that one would confirm his ascent and that, certainly, his photog must have snapped other shots (since it was obvouisly a set up shot given the lighting and all) he took the pic down. Again, posting another shot from the series would quiet any detractors.
Micheal claims he doesn't care which is why he never takes any care in making sure his claims are substantiated. However, this doesn't seem to fit because he gives interviews, updates his own web site, goes to trade shows, gives slide shows, solos for videos, etc.
Then there is Samet, a guy who's entire career has been based on creating controversy. It's tough to put much stock in his 'reporting', since he follows zero journalistic procedure and has admitted to making stuff up to create a stir in the community. It's practically his MO as a writer. So when Samet says he believes him, then admits that they get lost and epic on a route that MR had downclimbed, onsight, when it was the easiest of his five claimed ascents of Temple Crag, one can't help but be suspicious.
Anyway, you should be able to get my point. These situations are ubiquitous to his claims and must be addressed. It's further exacerbated by a lack of first hand viewing of his ascents. He claims to always have witnesses, yet they don't come forward. In his community, rarely is he seen performing at anywhere near this level. I'm not saying he doesn't perform at an impressive level compared to most people. He's a good climber and certainly out there doing some cool stuff. But his claims are far exceeding anything that he's done for an audience. How can this be ignored?
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piton
Apr 21, 2006, 5:14 PM
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hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb
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hasbeen
Apr 21, 2006, 5:37 PM
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In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb
so this is how people like george bush get elected.
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piton
Apr 21, 2006, 7:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb so this is how people like george bush get elected.
owww just something more for your to cry about. and yes i did vote for bush he's been good for small business owners. but if you're a little LA cry baby w/ your v8 truck i guess you like crying about bush and the war and oil. get up earliar next time. i'm the mother fockin devil :twisted:
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jt512
Apr 21, 2006, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb so this is how people like george bush get elected. ...and yes i did vote for bush
Nice call, Steve.
Jay
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sidepull
Apr 21, 2006, 8:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: joe and neverwas, You guys have had a hard on for Mike for a long time, and its not going away anytime soon. Sort of pathetic. Wes What would make you say something like this?
especially with all the warnings on Viagra bottles - after 4 hrs this condition can be dangerous.
(sorry, just had to do it)
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piton
Apr 24, 2006, 1:20 PM
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owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
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jt512
Apr 24, 2006, 7:54 PM
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In reply to: owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
Better watch out, Steve, Peed-On's climed 10b in the Valley! :shock:
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delarig
Apr 24, 2006, 9:33 PM
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The hole at ground zero IS the main reason I hate Bush....Uh oh...breaking out of the box......
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sidepull
Apr 24, 2006, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: The hole at ground zero IS the main reason I hate Bush....Uh oh...breaking out of the box......
holy drift alert batman!
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rckymtnlowballer
Apr 24, 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #119 of 120
(13390 views)
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Registered: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 23
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In reply to: owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
the "conservative NY asshole" boat has alot of free seats this year. If you hadn't noticed, NYC voted Democratic.
seems to me alot of people agree with Delarig.
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piton
Apr 25, 2006, 12:55 PM
Post #120 of 120
(13390 views)
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1034
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no rckymtnlowballer i'm the hoboken get your nose broken person not the "ny asshole" anyway NJ republican
jt 5.0 i've done more 5.10b in the valley just don't feel like spraying. like peed on though pretty clever did you have help w/ that. i think you did.
i can't believe i'm getting suckered into this debate with a sporto hang doggers.
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