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billcoe_
Apr 19, 2006, 5:02 AM
Post #103 of 120
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
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You can test it and check it all you want but it's probably not you anyway. That being said, this is probably not me either.
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kalcario
Apr 19, 2006, 5:52 AM
Post #105 of 120
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What is that route, how hard is it, what else have you seen, and what's the hardest thing you've seen him solo. You don't have to post pictures.
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fracture
Apr 19, 2006, 3:10 PM
Post #106 of 120
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Registered: Jun 13, 2003
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How tall is that route?
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bagre_rei
Apr 20, 2006, 1:31 PM
Post #107 of 120
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First, kudos to Michael Reardon. Accomplishing a highly desired route by his choice method should have been extremely satisfying to him and there is nothing left to the rest of us but to be happy about it.
But there is more than a personal goal in this discussion. Besides being tainted by some hate mail, I think that this thread brought something of an important issue to everybody involved in climbing.
Is soloing ethic?
If not, Climbing Magazine is at fault by awarding anything made that way. If yes, certainly it's going to be a long way to everybody to accept it, and it's players, and the way they do their business.
About the question, itīs a very close call. On the pro-soloing side you have the fact that, as a Brazilian eventual soloist said, "the world changes" when you let go the rope and the harness. You experience stronger feelings when soloing and that's evident. On the cons side you have the fact that things other than your personal limitations can cause a fall, and the consequences are terrible, not just for the climber, but for his/her family, friends, health care public services, etc...
In my opinion, sport soloing is bad climbing. There is more in life than climbing a pitch. The extra thrill just ain't enough motivation to put your life at stake.
Hard trad routes, highball bouldering, extreme high altitude climbs are all games where there is life risk. But the players use all the safety measures to try to keep a fair game. When you give all that up and a single broken hold can kill you in a route that has been climbed over and over again (including by you) it's not sport anymore.
P.S. First post. I don't climb sh**t and I'm nobody.
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mtnfr34k
Apr 21, 2006, 5:51 AM
Post #108 of 120
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Registered: Jul 16, 2005
Posts: 184
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I have to disagree. Climbers have been soloing since Ugh Climalot made the first known ascent (solo) of Mt. Ig 75,000 years ago. More recently, solo climbing has existed since the earliest modern records. Think about Ed Whymper (sic?), Clyde Soles. Soloing is a tradition just as old as any in modern climbing.
I don't take on the risks of big wave surfing or nascar race driving. Nor do you have to take on the same risks of solo climbers. But soloing should be recognized for its contributions and accomplishments, not criticized for the high level of risk its participants choose to accept.
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hasbeen
Apr 21, 2006, 5:02 PM
Post #109 of 120
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Registered: May 17, 2003
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In reply to: joe and neverwas, You and I know that no matter what I say, or what photos or video I produce you still wont admit your wrong. If I answer every one of your questions perfectly, or provide the proof that you require, you still wont admit your wrong. You guys have had a hard on for Mike for a long time, and its not going away anytime soon. Sort of pathetic. Wes
What would make you say something like this? I certainly have nothing personal against Michael. He's loud, can be obnoxious, but I find his enthusiasm and personality kind of infectious and cool. He's very positive and supportive, which is a great characteristic in my opinion. I would like to believe him. Not to mention that there's not much better in life than when someone greatly rasises their level of performance due to dedication, motivation, and hard work. These are my favorite stories in all of sports.
However, one cannot deny that there are holes in many of his claims. He brings these on himself so, obviously, he either wants the controversy or isn't telling the entire truth.
For example, he would know, for sure, that his Palisades Traverse claim would come under scrutiny. So why not sign the registers? That would be the ultimate 'FY' to his detractors. Instead, he litters the summits with weird stuff. Okay, it's littering, but whateever. Then, however, when someone who was up there on the day he claimed to do this said he'd seen no such items in the registers he says that he didn't always place them on the actual summits, but hid them in various places. This is odd, no?
Each story seems to have a similar hole in it. As a historian,, or just someone truly interested in climbing, it's just blind faith to ignore these facts. I see no reason not to ask questions. In any credible field, they would be asked.
His soloist site has a bunch of odd pics that have been taken down. For example, he had a pic hanging from the finishing jug of Maximum Ghetto. When it was pointed out that a pic from any other spot except that one would confirm his ascent and that, certainly, his photog must have snapped other shots (since it was obvouisly a set up shot given the lighting and all) he took the pic down. Again, posting another shot from the series would quiet any detractors.
Micheal claims he doesn't care which is why he never takes any care in making sure his claims are substantiated. However, this doesn't seem to fit because he gives interviews, updates his own web site, goes to trade shows, gives slide shows, solos for videos, etc.
Then there is Samet, a guy who's entire career has been based on creating controversy. It's tough to put much stock in his 'reporting', since he follows zero journalistic procedure and has admitted to making stuff up to create a stir in the community. It's practically his MO as a writer. So when Samet says he believes him, then admits that they get lost and epic on a route that MR had downclimbed, onsight, when it was the easiest of his five claimed ascents of Temple Crag, one can't help but be suspicious.
Anyway, you should be able to get my point. These situations are ubiquitous to his claims and must be addressed. It's further exacerbated by a lack of first hand viewing of his ascents. He claims to always have witnesses, yet they don't come forward. In his community, rarely is he seen performing at anywhere near this level. I'm not saying he doesn't perform at an impressive level compared to most people. He's a good climber and certainly out there doing some cool stuff. But his claims are far exceeding anything that he's done for an audience. How can this be ignored?
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piton
Apr 21, 2006, 5:14 PM
Post #110 of 120
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1034
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hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb
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hasbeen
Apr 21, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #111 of 120
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In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb
so this is how people like george bush get elected.
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piton
Apr 21, 2006, 7:09 PM
Post #112 of 120
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In reply to: In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb so this is how people like george bush get elected.
owww just something more for your to cry about. and yes i did vote for bush he's been good for small business owners. but if you're a little LA cry baby w/ your v8 truck i guess you like crying about bush and the war and oil. get up earliar next time. i'm the mother fockin devil :twisted:
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jt512
Apr 21, 2006, 8:05 PM
Post #113 of 120
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: hey haters what's the matter can't follow romantic warrior? shut up and climb so this is how people like george bush get elected. ...and yes i did vote for bush
Nice call, Steve.
Jay
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sidepull
Apr 21, 2006, 8:43 PM
Post #114 of 120
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
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In reply to: In reply to: joe and neverwas, You guys have had a hard on for Mike for a long time, and its not going away anytime soon. Sort of pathetic. Wes What would make you say something like this?
especially with all the warnings on Viagra bottles - after 4 hrs this condition can be dangerous.
(sorry, just had to do it)
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piton
Apr 24, 2006, 1:20 PM
Post #115 of 120
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
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jt512
Apr 24, 2006, 7:54 PM
Post #116 of 120
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In reply to: owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
Better watch out, Steve, Peed-On's climed 10b in the Valley! :shock:
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delarig
Apr 24, 2006, 9:33 PM
Post #117 of 120
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Registered: Jan 10, 2004
Posts: 167
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The hole at ground zero IS the main reason I hate Bush....Uh oh...breaking out of the box......
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sidepull
Apr 24, 2006, 9:42 PM
Post #118 of 120
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
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In reply to: The hole at ground zero IS the main reason I hate Bush....Uh oh...breaking out of the box......
holy drift alert batman!
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rckymtnlowballer
Apr 24, 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #119 of 120
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Registered: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 23
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In reply to: owww isn't that cute neverbeen, jt5.0 is backing you up. sporto's easy for you california sissies to bash bush. come to NYC so i can stick your head into the ground zero hole
the "conservative NY asshole" boat has alot of free seats this year. If you hadn't noticed, NYC voted Democratic.
seems to me alot of people agree with Delarig.
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piton
Apr 25, 2006, 12:55 PM
Post #120 of 120
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1034
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no rckymtnlowballer i'm the hoboken get your nose broken person not the "ny asshole" anyway NJ republican
jt 5.0 i've done more 5.10b in the valley just don't feel like spraying. like peed on though pretty clever did you have help w/ that. i think you did.
i can't believe i'm getting suckered into this debate with a sporto hang doggers.
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