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pjcozzi
Aug 8, 2006, 2:02 AM
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Registered: Sep 19, 2003
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I’d like some advice on a Canadian Rockies climbing trip we’re planning for August 13th to the 20th. We’re staying in a hostel in Canmore.
I’m interested in trad route recommendations that protect well, have reasonable route finding and don’t have a lot of loose rock. I lead Gunks/Seneca 6s, what does this equal at places like Yamnuska? The new Andy Genereux guide considers 5.4 scrambling!?!?!?!?
As suggested by the guidebooks we’ll probably start at Lake Louise and work our way up to Yamnuska. I’ve picked out the following routes, please provide your feedback.
Lake Louise
Louise Falls Area - Various 4-6s
Outhouse Area – Tomcat (5.3), Rain Dogs (5.5), Pub Night (5.6), Top Gun (5.7)
Liquid Sky Wall – Youthanism (5.6)
Wicked Gravity Wall – Pub Night (5.6)
Kid Goat
Twilight Zone, 140m (5.6)
Yamnuska
Ben’s Route, 45m (5.7)
Easy Street, 225m (5.5)
I also have the following routes as maybes.
Door Jam Mountain – does anyone have any details on these routes?
Kid Goat
Keelhaul Wall, 155 m (5.6) – I would really like to climb this but how bad are the run outs on P3 and P5?
Yamnuska – does anyone recommend any of these routes over Easy Street?
Windy Slabs, 260m (5.6)
Unnamed, 217m (5.7)
Grillmair Chimneys Left Variation, 295m (5.6) – I’ve heard of microwave size blocks pulling from this!
Gollum Grooves, 110m (5.7)
Mount Rundle
Spud Crag - Green Eggs and Yam, 26m (5.6)
True Grit Area - Guides’ Route, 655m (5.6) – How bad is the route finding on P13 and the loose rock?
CMC Valley – Third Rune
Weed, 60m (5.6)
Wasootch Slabs and Grotto Slabs look like descent places to for sport climbing.
We have double ropes and at least two full racks. I don’t want to climb any routes that require pitons. Should we double up on the #4 C4 on any routes?
Any clothing recommendations? I usually climb in mesh shorts and a tee shirt and I guess that’s not going to cut it here. Is wind gear a good investment? Are sandals OK for the walk offs? What about slippers vs. lace ups? I guess most wear lace ups for the long routes?
And finally how long do the various cliffs take to dry? If it rains the day before, is there any cliffs we should avoid?
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
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skinner
Aug 8, 2006, 4:03 AM
Post #2 of 16
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In reply to: I’d like some advice on a Canadian Rockies climbing trip we’re planning for August 13th to the 20th. We’re staying in a hostel in Canmore. I’m interested in trad route recommendations that protect well, have reasonable route finding and don’t have a lot of loose rock.
That's a tall order for the Rockies, especially the "and don’t have a lot of loose rock" part.
In reply to: The new Andy Genereux guide considers 5.4 scrambling!?!?!?!?
Yes.. maybe it's a grade conversion thing that has you feeling 5.4 is of a higher degree of difficulty, but it is definitely scrambling and not technical climbing.. at this elevation in summer conditions anyways.
In reply to: As suggested by the guidebooks we’ll probably start at Lake Louise and work our way up to Yamnuska. I’ve picked out the following routes, please provide your feedback.
Judging from the comments and reaction of various southern climbers I have met while climbing in Alberta, here is what I think you will find:
In reply to: Lake Louise Louise Falls Area - Various 4-6s Outhouse Area – Tomcat (5.3), Rain Dogs (5.5), Pub Night (5.6), Top Gun (5.7) Liquid Sky Wall – Youthanism (5.6) Wicked Gravity Wall – Pub Night (5.6)
The area you mention is good quality rock, although I think you will find that for the most part, it is a sport area. You will find the trad climbs here difficult to protect at times with an absence of cracks that will not accept anything bigger then a knife blade. Since you have chosen not to carry a hammer or pitons, run-outs will be highly probably depending on your routes of choice, and a way of life on some of the longer ones I've done around there.
In reply to: Yamnuska Ben’s Route, 45m (5.7) Easy Street, 225m (5.5)
While Yamnuska offers some of the better quality limestone in the area, that is a hell of an approach for a 45m route (Ben’s Route 5.7) and think you may find Easy Street, disappointingly easy considering the approach.. hardly worth it.
In reply to: I also have the following routes as maybes. Door Jam Mountain – does anyone have any details on these routes? Kid Goat Keelhaul Wall, 155 m (5.6) – I would really like to climb this but how bad are the run outs on P3 and P5?
Not that I remember. I don't remember anything being really run out, mind you.. I always have a few pitons (knife blades) on me. It has been awhile since I climbed Keelhaul, and I did enjoy it at the time. I do remember that P5 was very easy and understand that many bolts have been added over the year. I find the tick population in the Goat area too high for my liking though.
In reply to: Yamnuska – does anyone recommend any of these routes over Easy Street? Windy Slabs, 260m (5.6) Unnamed, 217m (5.7) Grillmair Chimneys Left Variation, 295m (5.6) – I’ve heard of microwave size blocks pulling from this! Gollum Grooves, 110m (5.7)
Windy Slabs, 260m (5.6)
Same as for Easy Street and Kings Chimney, the climbs just aren't worth the approach.
Grillmair Chimneys Left Variation, 295m (5.6) – I’ve heard of microwave size blocks pulling from this!
Gollum Grooves, 110m (5.7)
There have been a few instances on various routes, especially in spring where large blocks and ledges have detached, it's not a common occurrence on Yam by any means, but typical of the Rockies (and limestone), all routes can be subject to rock fall at anytime. Grillmair, Unarmed, Gollum, are all good climbs, but I would get an early start in the summer as Yam and this part of the face are fairly popular.
In reply to: Mount Rundle Spud Crag - Green Eggs and Yam, 26m (5.6) True Grit Area - Guides’ Route, 655m (5.6) – How bad is the route finding on P13 and the loose rock?
You will definitely find rockfall on Rundle. What local climbers consider normal, might be more then you are willing to deal with. Guides Route is an awesome Classic. One that people get lost on more often then not.
But, seeing that you are staying in Canmore, The East End of Rundle is right in your back yard and offers many routes long and short that may be right in the grade range you are looking for.
Speaking of Canmore's back yard, Ha Ling Peak has a 450m 5.6,
but once again.. the "and don’t have a lot of loose rock" clause may disqualify this route as well.
In reply to: CMC Valley – Third Rune Weed, 60m (5.6)
Another looong approach for a 60m climb. The CMC valley is one of those places that you set a tent up in for 2-3 days and knock off a number of routes. I like the rock in here but would be kicking myself in the arse for not bringing a small selection of pitons on most of it.
In reply to: Wasootch Slabs and Grotto Slabs look like descent places to for sport climbing.
Practice Areas = Crowded .. too much so for me personally. Wasootch is substantially bolted and despite the number of times people have been up these little routes, there is an abundance of loose rock laying around on the ledges that people seem to feel compelled to knock (kick) off.
In reply to: We have double ropes and at least two full racks. I don’t want to climb any routes that require pitons. Should we double up on the #4 C4 on any routes?
Lots of small wired pro.
In reply to: Any clothing recommendations? I usually climb in mesh shorts and a tee shirt and I guess that’s not going to cut it here. Is wind gear a good investment? Are sandals OK for the walk offs? What about slippers vs. lace ups? I guess most wear lace ups for the long routes?
The limestone tends to resemble a cheese-grator and acts as such on clothes and skin which I regularly leave behind a bit of both.
In reply to: And finally how long do the various cliffs take to dry? If it rains the day before, is there any cliffs we should avoid?
As with anywhere, South facing cliffs with dry first. On many of the North facing ones, the dirt in the larger cracks turns to a nice slick grease after a rain. Just adjust the grade 2-points higher or pull out the aiders :D
Thanks in advance!
Patrick
Basically, you will either love it, or think that the Rockies are one giant choss pile. Either way.. don't forget the skid-lids and on the longer trad routes especially, re-consider the piton thing as in some cases, it's the only way to eliminate the run-outs.
Feel free to PM me if you want, I'll give you my phone number if you want more detailed info of route/approaches when you are out here.
-Kevin
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pjcozzi
Aug 8, 2006, 8:34 PM
Post #3 of 16
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Thanks a lot for all the info Kevin!
In reply to: The area you mention is good quality rock, although I think you will find that for the most part, it is a sport area. You will find the trad climbs here difficult to protect at times with an absence of cracks that will not accept anything bigger then a knife blade. Since you have chosen not to carry a hammer or pitons, run-outs will be highly probably depending on your routes of choice, and a way of life on some of the longer ones I've done around there.
Do you have any suggestions for the easier to protect routs at Lake Louise? The new "Sport Climbs in the Canadian Rockies" didn't mention poor gear for any of the routes I picked out.
In reply to: While Yamnuska offers some of the better quality limestone in the area, that is a hell of an approach for a 45m route (Ben’s Route 5.7) and think you may find Easy Street, disappointingly easy considering the approach.. hardly worth it.
I heard about the approach :shock:. If we did Ben's Route, we'd probably climb a few other short climbs in that area. I'm OK if Easy Street is easy but is it fun? Does it offer some nice moves with descent exposure or is it really not worth doing?
In reply to: I find the tick population in the Goat area too high for my liking though.
Thanks for the tip. I was unaware.
In reply to: Speaking of Canmore's back yard, Ha Ling Peak has a 450m 5.6, but once again.. the "and don’t have a lot of loose rock" clause may disqualify this route as well.
I've put some serious thought into this route since I'd like to climb something really long but it has had too many accidents for my tastes.
In reply to: Practice Areas = Crowded .. too much so for me personally. Wasootch is substantially bolted and despite the number of times people have been up these little routes, there is an abundance of loose rock laying around on the ledges that people seem to feel compelled to knock (kick) off.
Do you think it would be reasonable to visit here in the middle of the week?
In reply to: Lots of small wired pro.
Noted. Thanks!
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if_in_doubt_run_it_out
Aug 8, 2006, 9:34 PM
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Hey Patrick,
Here's some of my input:
If you're gonna climb on Yamnuska (and looking for 5.6), climb Grillmair's. There are some fun chimneys and I'd say the protection is fairly decent. The last pitch is difficult to protect, but there are a tonne of fixed pitons to clip (don't mind the ones that have been ripped :P) I wouldn't worry too much about microwave sized blocks falling off (just make sure you extensively check every hold before you commit... this goes for all climbing in the Rockies). Those large blocks are usually loosened during the winter, and by late summer they will have already fallen or are still strong enough to stay in place.
Easy Street is decent. It's pretty much glorified scrambling the whole way. You don't even need to know much about trad placements either because there are a lot of bolts on the route. Not a route I would recommend if you're looking for true trad climbing.
I'd recommend the NE face of Ha Ling. The accidents that you referred to mostly happened before the belay stations were bolted. Protection is decent, but be prepared to have some long run outs nonetheless. If you want, you can traverse over to a sport route about half way up. This is really fun. It's rated 10b at this point, but it's an easy 10b and all bolted.
If you'd like to do a couple multi-pitch sport routes, True Grit and Raptor are both sweet climbs. True Grit is the better of the 2, and I'd say has less rock fall since parties above you have to rap (not walk off the chossy top).
I don't carry pitons with me, but I'd agree that they're a good thing to have with you.
Haven't experienced ticks in the Goat area, but maybe I've just been lucky.
Keel Haul Wall is fun. Get there early (really early) else you'll be waiting for 5 groups ahead of you. And if you get there early, you'll have time to do some more climbing elsewhere that day.
As far as protection goes, I find I don't use cams that much in the Bow Valley. Like Kevin said, small wired nuts are really useful.
Have fun!
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jayp
Aug 8, 2006, 10:43 PM
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You should go do the route right next to Takkaw Falls. It is has nice bolted belays, really great atmosphere and even includes a cool cave passage at the top. Really good 5.6. Here's a link to the topo.
http://www.tabvar.org/BanffRock/Takakkaw_Falls_TABVAR.pdf
Jay
p.s.-I second the thought of the route on Ha Ling also.
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skinner
Aug 9, 2006, 4:05 AM
Post #6 of 16
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In reply to: Thanks a lot for all the info Kevin!
In reply to: The area you mention is good quality rock, although I think you will find that for the most part, it is a sport area. You will find the trad climbs here difficult to protect at times with an absence of cracks that will not accept anything bigger then a knife blade. Since you have chosen not to carry a hammer or pitons, run-outs will be highly probably depending on your routes of choice, and a way of life on some of the longer ones I've done around there.
In reply to: Do you have any suggestions for the easier to protect routs at Lake Louise? The new "Sport Climbs in the Canadian Rockies" didn't mention poor gear for any of the routes I picked out.
Well.. if you are heading up that way, here's one that might fill your requirements, and it's an awesome climb!
http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/listArea.php?AreaID=6045
The only problem, being that Parks Canada requires you to travel in groups of 4 minimum, due to bears. I have waited at the trail head for hours trying to hook up with anyone going that way, but never had any luck.
I would definitely be interested in making up a 4-some for this one with you. Maybe if_in_doubt_run_it_out might want to join us on this one :wink:
In reply to: While Yamnuska offers some of the better quality limestone in the area, that is a hell of an approach for a 45m route (Ben’s Route 5.7) and think you may find Easy Street, disappointingly easy considering the approach.. hardly worth it.
In reply to: I heard about the approach :shock:. If we did Ben's Route, we'd probably climb a few other short climbs in that area. I'm OK if Easy Street is easy but is it fun? Does it offer some nice moves with descent exposure or is it really not worth doing?
In reply to: If you're gonna climb on Yamnuska (and looking for 5.6), climb Grillmair's.
I agree totally.
In reply to: I find the tick population in the Goat area too high for my liking though.
In reply to: Thanks for the tip. I was unaware.
The major tick season should be over by now, but we spent a lot of time in the area between Exshaw and Keelhaul over the last two years and there was not a single time that someone didn't find ticks on them (as many as 7 on one person). I just spend to much time scratching and thinking about it to stay focused on anything else, but that's my personal; phobia :D
In reply to: Speaking of Canmore's back yard, Ha Ling Peak has a 450m 5.6, but once again.. the "and don’t have a lot of loose rock" clause may disqualify this route as well.
In reply to: I've put some serious thought into this route since I'd like to climb something really long but it has had too many accidents for my tastes.
In reply to: I'd recommend the NE face of Ha Ling. The accidents that you referred to mostly happened before the belay stations were bolted. Protection is decent, but be prepared to have some long run outs nonetheless. If you want, you can traverse over to a sport route about half way up. This is really fun. It's rated 10b at this point, but it's an easy 10b and all bolted.
I would definitely go take a look at this route while you are in Canmore.
I have always run into a little rock fall, loose rock, etc on Ha Ling, but it's just the norm that you'll get anywhere, personally I think it's an awesome route and you'd be missing out by passing it by.
In reply to: Practice Areas = Crowded .. too much so for me personally. Wasootch is substantially bolted and despite the number of times people have been up these little routes, there is an abundance of loose rock laying around on the ledges that people seem to feel compelled to knock (kick) off.
In reply to: Do you think it would be reasonable to visit here in the middle of the week?
Well.. it is summer, so I'm not sure how much difference the middle of the week will make, but all you have to do is a quick drive by and look at the parking lot to see how busy it is. If I looks too crowded for your liking you can always check out Barrier. while you are there, or even go do Mount Lorette and find out what 5.4 scrambling in the Rockies is all about, a very aesthetic ridge.
In reply to: Lots of small wired pro.
In reply to: Noted. Thanks!
NP :D
-Kevin
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pjcozzi
Aug 9, 2006, 1:38 PM
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You guys are full of great info. Keep it coming! Thanks!
Wow, everyone recommends the NE Face of Ha Ling. The accidents I mention happened between 1996 and 1999. Here is the link: http://alpineclub-edm.org/...p?type=Rock+Climbing. With all the positive feedback you guys give the route, I'm very tempted to still check it out.
In reply to: eel Haul Wall is fun. Get there early (really early) else you'll be waiting for 5 groups ahead of you.
What time is early? Where I climb, if you are at the base of a climb by 8am, you're probably the first team there. Is that too late?
In reply to: You should go do the route right next to Takkaw Falls. It is has nice bolted belays, really great atmosphere and even includes a cool cave passage at the top. Really good 5.6. Here's a link to the topo. http://www.tabvar.org/BanffRock/Takakkaw_Falls_TABVAR.pdf
That route sounds so cool! I'm certainly adding it to my list. Thanks!
In reply to: Well.. if you are heading up that way, here's one that might fill your requirements, and it's an awesome climb! www.rockclimbing.com/routes/listArea.php The only problem, being that Parks Canada requires you to travel in groups of 4 minimum, due to bears. I have waited at the trail head for hours trying to hook up with anyone going that way, but never had any luck. I would definitely be interested in making up a 4-some for this one with you. Maybe if_in_doubt_run_it_out might want to join us on this one
I'll have either 1 or 2 people with me depending on the day so I'm sure we can set something up.
Patrick
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double
Aug 9, 2006, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: I lead Gunks/Seneca 6s, what does this equal at places like Yamnuska?
Kid goat is a great area, and I've never had trouble with ticks. They're pretty inactive in august. I would recommend doing both Twilight Zone and Keelhaul Wall in a day. Also do Gray Waves (5.8 sport, 4 p). The runout is considerable on pitch 5 of Keelhaul, but the moves are easy. Bring a few pins and a hammer since thunderstorms tend to build up quickly in August so they're nice to have as a retreat option. I also wouldn't recommend Yam unless you're keen on climbing on a piece of history. The climbs on Goat are much easier to get to and just as good.
In reply to: Door Jam Mountain – does anyone have any details on these routes?
In reply to: CMC Valley – Third Rune Weed, 60m (5.6)
In reply to: Wasootch Slabs and Grotto Slabs look like descent places to for sport climbing.
I'd recommend the small tricams. I place those on every pitch.
In reply to: Any clothing recommendations?
If you're around Canmore mid week, check out Grassi Lakes. The rock there is out of this world, but it does get really busy.
Also, I highly recommend Mt. Lorette. Lots of exposure.
Have a great trip,
Bryan
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pjcozzi
Aug 9, 2006, 6:41 PM
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In reply to: I've updated the routes database with what I know about the area. I climbed two routes there earlier this year. The approach is long (I'd say at least 45 min). If you want to explore, it's fun. The guidebook is not much help. Quite low angled.
I like slab climbs. Do you think they are worth the approach though? Did you get really lost on the climbs?
In reply to: I'd recommend the small tricams. I place those on every pitch.
Thanks, we can double up on them (probably triple up if we really wanted to).
Patrick
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the_climber
Aug 9, 2006, 9:20 PM
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As far as tricams go, .5,1,1.5,2 are the sizes I find most usefull. If you're going to double up on them an extra .5 or 1 is usefull (I carry a filed .5 (~ a .3) but I cannot encourage the use of modified gear even if it fits that magical placement).
(Disclaimer: Modified gear can get you killed, don't use it.)
Pins, pins, pins..... yep, saved my bacon a few times. I usually carry a KB or two, a Bugaboo, a small LA, and a Baby angle or small angle. Especially on less travelled routes I take pins, and alpine. You won't use them often but when you need them it's good. Having a hammer is good for resetting some of the old loose pins to.
Some larger hexes are also very usefull, around the BD 7 to 10 range. Though you won't need them on all routes.
If you only double up on one thing make it your small wired nuts. #4 and #5 smiley's are quite usefull as are a few RP's
If your looking for some slab, try Joy in Kananaskis. Topo at http://www.rocksolidguide.com/guidebook/joy.html
I have heard that Arboreal Delight is not bad either, it's on Mt Cory in Banff although I have not been on it. Like it's been said Unnamed and Grillmairs are good Routes on Yam, with Unnamed beeing the umm... rockier of the two. You could also check Mountaineers Coil and Mother's Day Butress on Cascade, might have some rockfall though. McGillivary Slabs has some good routes too. Try Kahl Crack or Morning Side if you end up with an afternoon start and still want 4 or 5 pitches of air below you.
Check this link too:
http://www.tabvar.org/Kan_obs.pdf
And look at the Ghost Guide book also.
Check some of the local Climbing shops in Calgary/Canmore/Banff, you can often get some topos for routes not in the guide books.
Hrmmm, not muck rock fall/loose rock, Ahhem... Just remember "When climbing in the rockies, remember to put them back when you're done".
Crap.... now I don't want to work any more today... Climbing climbing climbing, it's all I can think about now. :lol:
Edited for spelking
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double
Aug 10, 2006, 12:37 AM
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Door Jam is worth the approach if you enjoy easy slab, mostly in the 5.4 range. Great slabs though. The guide description is not very good. Wander around and choose your own lines. Makes it more fun.
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pjcozzi
Aug 10, 2006, 1:26 PM
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In reply to: (I carry a filed .5 (~ a .3) but I cannot encourage the use of modified gear even if it fits that magical placement). (Disclaimer: Modified gear can get you killed, don't use it.)
Interesting. I've never heard of filing a tricam before. Of course, I'm going to following your disclaimer and not try it myself.
In reply to: If you only double up on one thing make it your small wired nuts. #4 and #5 smiley's are quite usefull as are a few RP's
This seems to be the consensus. Done.
In reply to: Check some of the local Climbing shops in Calgary/Canmore/Banff, you can often get some topos for routes not in the guide books.
Do you recommend any stores in particular?
Patrick
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the_climber
Aug 10, 2006, 2:30 PM
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In reply to: Do you recommend any stores in particular?
If you're in Calgary Wicked Gravity (www.wickedgravity.com); Canmore Vertical Addiction (www.vertical-addiction.com); Banff Mountain Magic (www.mountain magic.com).
There are also other shops around, suchas Valhala in Canmore, MEC in Calgary, but the above are my preference. Good Advice and great gear selection. The bonus is there're the small local climbing shop and you'd be supporting the little guys. Mind you, those little guys crank WAY harder than I do.
In reply to: the_climber wrote: (I carry a filed .5 (~ a .3) but I cannot encourage the use of modified gear even if it fits that magical placement). (Disclaimer: Modified gear can get you killed, don't use it.) pjcozzi wrote: Interesting. I've never heard of filing a tricam before. Of course, I'm going to following your disclaimer and not try it myself.
Good on ya for following Disclaimers. PM me when you are in Cowtown if you would like to discuss some routes in person, I even let you take a look at the 'Special Tricam' if you would like.
Check www.tabvar.org in the guidebook update section, there's typically some good routes from yet to be published editions/guides there. And consider checking out www.live-the-vision.com/cms it's run by some local climbers and is kind of the 'local' BB
Definitly check out NE Face Ha Ling, don't let the accidents turn you back, but also don't under estimate the route. First 100m or so can easilly be simu-climbed, IF that's in your comfort range. Good bolted belays the whole way. Just get an early start so you don't get scooped!! Not exactly the route I would want to be climbing below other parties on (especially the lower 5 pitches or so).
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if_in_doubt_run_it_out
Aug 10, 2006, 3:42 PM
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In reply to: Maybe if_in_doubt_run_it_out might want to join us on this one :wink:
Man, I'd love to join you guys for the Grand Sentinel. Unfortunately I'll be vacationing in Manitoba for the next month... yes, Canada's climbing mecca :'(... Have fun!
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pjcozzi
Sep 13, 2006, 3:51 AM
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In case you guys are curious, we had a great trip and climbed the following routes
Kid Goat - Twightlight Zone (5.6)
Lake Louise - Tomcat (5.3), Rain Dogs (5.5), various mixed and sport routes
Wasootch Slabs - Second Corner (5.7), various trad and sport routes
McGillvary Slabs - Kahl Crack (5.5), Morningside P4 (5.5)
Takakkaw Falls - Takakkaw Falls Route (5.6)
Grassi Lakes - various sport routes
I put together a trip report with tons of pictures and even some audio. You'll find it on my website http://www.eastcoastmoderates.com/.
Thanks again for the all the good beta. I can't wait to make it back out.
Patrick
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rockguide
Sep 13, 2006, 5:03 AM
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Glad you had a great trip out here! Congrats on some great climbs!
(Kevin sure gave some great beta for the area.)
Hope to see you back here 8^)
Brian
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