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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 6:33 PM
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Went to a indoor gym this weekend and there ONLY belay device they had there was a ATC. Whats up with that? Do allot of indoor gyms do this? I'm still new to climbing and have never used this before, neither had my partner. and i did how ever manage not to eat shit on the floor nor did i drop my partner. Just kind of funny that there letting anyone use this device- rookie or not. Sure they gave me a simple belay test, and i passed but the fact of any inexperienced climber could go in and use one does not sound right.
Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. Im not sure the NAME of the technique im useing now but its the one where you are removeing slack by lifting brake hand infront of you while pulling up and then with your left hand you are take the excess slack from the bottom of your right hand. Im sure someone knows with out me getting into some crazy detail. thx
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microbarn
Oct 30, 2006, 6:48 PM
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ATCs are standard for a gym. You are the oddity (not the gym) for never having used one before.
There are several safe techniques. A search will give the best answers.
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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 6:58 PM
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In reply to: ATCs are standard for a gym. You are the oddity (not the gym) for never having used one before. There are several safe techniques. A search will give the best answers.
Ive been to about 5 or 6 different gyms (here in Cal) and this is the only one yet. So standard, not sure. seems like there getting outdated over here, Expecially for TR.
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granite_grrl
Oct 30, 2006, 6:58 PM
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I don't think that the ATC is the standard for most gyms. But I also don't think that its a bad thing to have to leard to use one instead of a gri-gri.
Personally, unless I'm belaying someone who's spending a lot of time hangdogging I'd rather use amd ATC style device.
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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: I don't think that the ATC is the standard for most gyms. But I also don't think that its a bad thing to have to leard to use one instead of a gri-gri. Personally, unless I'm belaying someone who's spending a lot of time hangdogging I'd rather use amd ATC style device.
Yes my partner was doing allot of that, they were getting all freaked out, so they ended up not even wanting to climb. Thats what brought up my question.
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saxfiend
Oct 30, 2006, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ATCs are standard for a gym. You are the oddity (not the gym) for never having used one before. There are several safe techniques. A search will give the best answers. Ive been to about 5 or 6 different gyms (here in Cal) and this is the only one yet. So standard, not sure. seems like there getting outdated over here, Expecially for TR.
If you've been climbing enough to have been to five or six gyms, it's time you got your own gear (harness, shoes, belay biner, belay device).
JL
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Oct 30, 2006, 8:35 PM
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[quote:9c6faf3a22="matty0h_52"]Went to a indoor gym this weekend and there ONLY belay device they had there was a ATC. Whats up with that? Do allot of indoor gyms do this? I'm still new to climbing and have never used this before, neither had my partner. and i did how ever manage not to eat s--- on the floor nor did i drop my partner. Just kind of funny that there letting anyone use this device- rookie or not. Sure they gave me a simple belay test, and i passed but the fact of any inexperienced climber could go in and use one does not sound right.
Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. Im not sure the NAME of the technique im useing now but its the one where you are removeing slack by lifting brake hand infront of you while pulling up and then with your left hand you are take the excess slack from the bottom of your right hand. Im sure someone knows with out me getting into some crazy detail. thx[/quote:9c6faf3a22]
Just curious what you used before using the ATC. I am thinking a gri gri. If you passed their belay test, how did you know how to use it for the test? I had only went to one indoor gym ( I like the outdoor crags) and the test was just that, a test. The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? ..........
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dblah36
Oct 30, 2006, 8:36 PM
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ATC's are the standard belay devices for most all gyms.
If you are visiting up to 5 or 6 different gyms then you should just buy your belay device that makes you the most comfortable
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fearofheights
Oct 30, 2006, 8:44 PM
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Are you sure you're talking about an ATC? Your post makes more sense if you meant to say that you are used to using an ATC, but the gym made you use a gri gri. For example, I think Planet Granite does this.
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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Went to a indoor gym this weekend and there ONLY belay device they had there was a ATC. Whats up with that? Do allot of indoor gyms do this? I'm still new to climbing and have never used this before, neither had my partner. and i did how ever manage not to eat s--- on the floor nor did i drop my partner. Just kind of funny that there letting anyone use this device- rookie or not. Sure they gave me a simple belay test, and i passed but the fact of any inexperienced climber could go in and use one does not sound right. Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. Im not sure the NAME of the technique im useing now but its the one where you are removeing slack by lifting brake hand infront of you while pulling up and then with your left hand you are take the excess slack from the bottom of your right hand. Im sure someone knows with out me getting into some crazy detail. thx Just curious what you used before using the ATC. I am thinking a gri gri. If you passed their belay test, how did you know how to use it for the test? I had only went to one indoor gym ( I like the outdoor crags) and the test was just that, a test. The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? ..........
I pased the test becuase i watched a instrutional vid on how to set up similar device. And i told the guy before i did it that i never used one. And i belayed just like i would with a gri gri. and he passed me. And yes, im sure i will definetly have my own soon.
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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: Are you sure you're talking about an ATC? Your post makes more sense if you meant to say that you are used to using an ATC, but the gym made you use a gri gri. For example, I think Planet Granite does this.
No i know for sure it was a ATC.
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crazyclimber23
Oct 30, 2006, 8:55 PM
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Personally i like to use an ATC. I just like them better than the gri gris. I'm just more comfortable with an ATC.
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Oct 30, 2006, 8:56 PM
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[quote:2444981fcc="matty0h_52"][quote:2444981fcc="fmd"][quote:2444981fcc="matty0h_52"]Went to a indoor gym this weekend and there ONLY belay device they had there was a ATC. Whats up with that? Do allot of indoor gyms do this? I'm still new to climbing and have never used this before, neither had my partner. and i did how ever manage not to eat s--- on the floor nor did i drop my partner. Just kind of funny that there letting anyone use this device- rookie or not. Sure they gave me a simple belay test, and i passed but the fact of any inexperienced climber could go in and use one does not sound right.
Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. Im not sure the NAME of the technique im useing now but its the one where you are removeing slack by lifting brake hand infront of you while pulling up and then with your left hand you are take the excess slack from the bottom of your right hand. Im sure someone knows with out me getting into some crazy detail. thx[/quote:2444981fcc]
Just curious what you used before using the ATC. I am thinking a gri gri. If you passed their belay test, how did you know how to use it for the test? I had only went to one indoor gym ( I like the outdoor crags) and the test was just that, a test. The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? ..........[/quote:2444981fcc]
I pased the test becuase i watched a instrutional vid on how to set up similar device. And i told the guy before i did it that i never used one. And i belayed just like i would with a gri gri. and he passed me. And yes, im sure i will definetly have my own soon.[/quote:2444981fcc]
Now I am curious. I dont climb at indoor gyms, but what people here are saying is that you can bring your own belay device. If that is the case, do they belay test you on different devices?. I had received a belay card for the gyms device where I had climbed once (gri gri). Are you allowed to use your own device of choice and if so, how do they (the gym) know that you are familiar with it??
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bill413
Oct 30, 2006, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. In reply to: I pased the test becuase i watched a instrutional vid on how to set up similar device. And i told the guy before i did it that i never used one. And i belayed just like i would with a gri gri. and he passed me. In reply to: The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? |
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zip_ty
Oct 30, 2006, 9:05 PM
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There are three gyms I climb at in this area. Stoneworks and Club Sport both provide Gri-Gri's for members to use and you are not allowed to use anything else for climbing in the gym.
PRG, however, requires that you bring, and use, your own ATC device. From what I understand, they don't allow you to use anything else. I could be wrong about the last part since I've only been there twice
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Oct 30, 2006, 9:09 PM
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[quote:567631cdcb="zip_ty"]There are three gyms I climb at in this area. Stoneworks and Club Sport both provide Gri-Gri's for members to use and you are not allowed to use anything else for climbing in the gym.
PRG, however, requires that you bring, and use, your own ATC device. From what I understand, they don't allow you to use anything else. I could be wrong about the last part since I've only been there twice[/quote:567631cdcb]
So PRG is only ATC's also? Or do they allow you to bring say a reverso or gri gri and belay test you each day you climb if you dont use a ATC??
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carabiner96
Oct 30, 2006, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: ATCs are standard for a gym. You are the oddity (not the gym) for never having used one before. There are several safe techniques. A search will give the best answers.
Learning from someone in person who knows what they're doing will give you the best and SAFEST answers.
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matty0h_52
Oct 30, 2006, 9:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. In reply to: I pased the test becuase i watched a instrutional vid on how to set up similar device. And i told the guy before i did it that i never used one. And i belayed just like i would with a gri gri. and he passed me. In reply to: The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? So, if I have this right, you belayed your partner on a device that you felt you didn't know how to use, nor understand?
At first ya, then he passed me then i got a Little more confident. Then we spent the first 30min to 45min or so on the device, just learning it. We go up a little then took a fall... then i would get lowered...go up...come down slow. Repeat as nessesary, or untill we both felt comfortable useing it.
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zip_ty
Oct 30, 2006, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: There are three gyms I climb at in this area. Stoneworks and Club Sport both provide Gri-Gri's for members to use and you are not allowed to use anything else for climbing in the gym. PRG, however, requires that you bring, and use, your own ATC device. From what I understand, they don't allow you to use anything else. I could be wrong about the last part since I've only been there twice So PRG is only ATC's also? Or do they allow you to bring say a reverso or gri gri and belay test you each day you climb if you dont use a ATC??
I double checked the rules on their website. The rule says "You must belay with an approved belay device. Belaying with a munter hitch or a figure 8 device is not allowed." This leads me to believe that you can bring your own gri-gri but when I was there I remember the guy who checked me in saying that you had to have your own ATC.
I have a co-worker who climbs there all the time and I will check with her. For some reason I have ATC only stuck in my head but as a point of clarification I will check again.
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bill413
Oct 30, 2006, 9:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Also i wanted to know if a different belay technique is needed when using this device. In reply to: I pased the test becuase i watched a instrutional vid on how to set up similar device. And i told the guy before i did it that i never used one. And i belayed just like i would with a gri gri. and he passed me. In reply to: The gym didnt show me or explained to me how to use thier device prior to giving thier belay test? So, if I have this right, you belayed your partner on a device that you felt you didn't know how to use, nor understand? At first ya, then he passed me then i got a Little more confident. Then we spent the first 30min to 45min or so on the device, just learning it. We go up a little then took a fall... then i would get lowered...go up...come down slow. Repeat as nessesary, or untill we both felt comfortable useing it.
Actually, much better.
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lena_chita
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Oct 30, 2006, 9:59 PM
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In reply to: Here's a better question: why don't you have your own belay device? If you've been climbing enough to have been to five or six gyms, it's time you got your own gear (harness, shoes, belay biner, belay device). JL
I agree with the advice in principle. However, there were couple of gyms that I visited while traveling that REQUIRED you to use their belay devices.
And yeah, I've seen more gri-gris than ATCs in the gyms overall, though in our gym all new climbers are taught to belay with ATC and anybody coming in has to take belay test on ATC. Some people belay with gri-gris, but 98% at our gym go with ATCs.
It seems that there are a lot of silly rules out there where the gyms are concerned.
SOme gyms allow you to use whatever device you are comfortable with, others set their rules.
One gym (in Manhattan) required us to use TWO locking 'biners (opposed, of course :roll: ) to attach the ATC to the harness. No, they didn't reuire two ropes... :D and the fact that ATC was not doubled up did not bother them either.
One gym I've been to had the belay set up so the gri-gri was attachced to a floor anchor, and to the rope was already threaded through, and you never ever took it off the rope or off the anchor -- in other words never clipped it to your harness, just belayed off the anchor. I had a couple of friend's kids with me-- 10 and 12 yo at the time, never climbed before-- and the gym guy just showed them to "pull here when they go up, pull this thing when they want to go down" and that was the end of instructions...
Yet another gym I remember had figure 8 on the bight permanently tied at the end of the rope, and you were supposed to use a 'biner (actually, two biners :roll: ) to clip the knot to your harness... Weird, how they first introduce an unnecessary element into it, and then double it up to make it redundant...
Most of the above seems really silly, but if you put it into perspective: most gyms get their busness from first-time or inexperienced climbers, kids birthday parties and scout groups, and for those kinds of climbers it makes sense to have stupid setup like that-- instead of teaching them to tie the knot or belay with ATC, you just show them how to lock the biner and they are ready to climb, less time spent on tying knots...
Oh well, when in Rome... and all that.
In any case, weird gym requirements aside, it is good to know several techniques.
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jgloporto
Oct 30, 2006, 10:05 PM
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In the gyms around here, gri-gri's are required for top roping and there is one clipped on at every rope. You are allowed to use a standard ATC when belaying a lead climber. I have a BD Guide and was told to get a standard ATC for the gym. (I suppose its because the staff has to walk around and visually inspect everything from a distance and they don't want those guys to have to stop and figure out if a non-standard device is set up properly).
To the OP, you should know how to use an ATC and the words "Belay On" should not be uttered if you look down at your harness and aren't sure what you are looking at. Videos aren't a proxy for live instruction. Forget about satisfying some gyms belay check, you should not put someone else's safety in your hands if you aren't proficient in how to use the equipment even if the gym checked you out.
It would be best if you took a belay course at that gym using an ATC.
Joe
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zeke_sf
Oct 30, 2006, 11:01 PM
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from what I've seen and heard, gym "standards" vary a lot from gym to gym. my gym, for instance, requires you bring your own lead rope, while it's common practice for other gyms to provide them for you (maybe would have prevented the accident in Sacramento?). I've heard of grigri only gyms (which are also provided), gyms with auto-belays, a gym that allowed the use of trad gear (not sure if I believe this one), and quite a few other things.
grigris are aiigghht, but I don't think they are as useful when you start getting into multi-pitch, etc. for an atc that provides more friction for hangdogging, try the atc-xp by black diamond. also, when I first used an atc I didn't make a sharp enough angle and tried using more grip to lock the device. try holding it down to the outside of your thigh when you brake to really lock it down. you're going to find people who only like grigris or atc, but don't get so foolish as to forget it's the belayer's ability that counts most.
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zip_ty
Oct 30, 2006, 11:13 PM
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In reply to: So PRG is only ATC's also? Or do they allow you to bring say a reverso or gri gri and belay test you each day you climb if you dont use a ATC??
So I guess as long as it's an approved belay device you can use it. The only thing that matters is that you pass the belay test to begin with.
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sorryfingers
Oct 30, 2006, 11:56 PM
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It's an ATC not a frickin' nuclear reactor. As long as you don't throw both your hands up in panic when your partner takes a fall, ATC's and grigri's pretty much are functionally identical (for belaying a toproped climber).
I guess I'm saying that if you can use a grigri properly, using an ATC for gym climbing (with no "training", gasp!) should be a cake-walk.
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