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wanderlustmd
Jan 6, 2007, 5:42 AM
Post #126 of 152
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Dude your so back to front and upside down its almost sad. But at any rate, arguing over the internet isn't really constructive to anything. Nighty night
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fluxus
Jan 6, 2007, 5:46 AM
Post #127 of 152
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jimdavis wrote: posting the contents of PM's is AWAYS a thoughtful/ respectful thing to do.
Jay said it best on this point.
In reply to: fluxus wrote: its odd as hell that you would tell me to STFU when I didn't make any comment (direct or implied) about your climbing abilityHuh, really?
yea really, I was simply stating what is in your profile, it was not a put down or an accusation. It sounds like you are insecure with being a 5.10 climber. I don't have a problem with you being a 5.10 climber at all, I take climbing level as a bench mark of experience and skill level. What I have a problem with is you talking out your a** about climbing instruction.
In reply to: fluxus wrote: You claim 5 years experience and a climbing level of 5.10. That certainly tells us something about your experience.Could've fooled me.
so you are saying that knowing someone's climbing level and how long they've been climbing does not tell us anything about their experience? I think you are alone in that.
In reply to: That PM was sent as I didn't think it necessary to get in a pissing match on this thread with you publicly...
You'd rather have a pissing match in PMs then? No thanks, I use PMs to communicate with friends, to answer questions and to discuss interesting issues that are not part of a thread. Persoanlly I'd rather have the insults be public, its a level playing field and I don't have to worry about trash in my in box. While public debates can and do get roudy, even ugly, they are moderated and if someone crosses the line they can be called on it. You crossed the line when you took the step of contacting me privately for the sake of being vulgar.
In reply to: ...I really can't muster up an ounce of respect for you. If your not considerate enough to respond privately, as I did with you...then I'm not gonna waste anymore time on you or what you think of me.
Who you do or don't respect is your business, I'm not really asking for your respect; what I'm doing is lording my infinately greater experience and knowledge over you, because you come across as an arrogant and clueless n00b.
But lets be clear, there was nothing at all considerate about your PM, or the intentions behind it, period.
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jt512
Jan 6, 2007, 5:47 AM
Post #128 of 152
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jimdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: Sorry, but I don't invade people's privacy by harassing them with PMs telling them to "shut the fuck up." Jay I don't quite see how a comment made in a mock-email is an invasion of privacy.
Then you need to think about it a little more.
As far as my public responses go, well, they are public responses to public comments. People occasionally make outrageously stupid comments on this website, sometimes these comments are, in fact, dangerously stupid. My first response to such comments is usually benign. If someone continues to make repeated stupid statements, that's a different story.
You'll note that I have continued to be polite to you in spite of the fact that you have not gotten the hint that you are out of your depth in this thread. I've lost count of the number of other posters who have said so in one way or another. The only poster who seems to think your comments are worthwhile is the OP, who, with only 2 years of climbing experience, is out of his depth, too.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 6, 2007, 5:59 AM)
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jimdavis
Jan 6, 2007, 6:33 AM
Post #129 of 152
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fluxus wrote: jimdavis wrote: posting the contents of PM's is AWAYS a thoughtful/ respectful thing to do. Jay said it best on this point. In reply to: fluxus wrote: its odd as hell that you would tell me to STFU when I didn't make any comment (direct or implied) about your climbing abilityHuh, really? yea really, I was simply stating what is in your profile, it was not a put down or an accusation. It sounds like you are insecure with being a 5.10 climber. I don't have a problem with you being a 5.10 climber at all, I take climbing level as a bench mark of experience and skill level. What I have a problem with is you talking out your a** about climbing instruction. In reply to: fluxus wrote: You claim 5 years experience and a climbing level of 5.10. That certainly tells us something about your experience.Could've fooled me. so you are saying that knowing someone's climbing level and how long they've been climbing does not tell us anything about their experience? I think you are alone in that. In reply to: That PM was sent as I didn't think it necessary to get in a pissing match on this thread with you publicly... You'd rather have a pissing match in PMs then? No thanks, I use PMs to communicate with friends, to answer questions and to discuss interesting issues that are not part of a thread. Persoanlly I'd rather have the insults be public, its a level playing field and I don't have to worry about trash in my in box. While public debates can and do get roudy, even ugly, they are moderated and if someone crosses the line they can be called on it. You crossed the line when you took the step of contacting me privately for the sake of being vulgar. In reply to: ...I really can't muster up an ounce of respect for you. If your not considerate enough to respond privately, as I did with you...then I'm not gonna waste anymore time on you or what you think of me. Who you do or don't respect is your business, I'm not really asking for your respect; what I'm doing is lording my infinately greater experience and knowledge over you, because you come across as an arrogant and clueless n00b. But lets be clear, there was nothing at all considerate about your PM, or the intentions behind it, period.
Fluxus, I didn't contact you for the sake of being vulgar...given my interpretation of what you said, I'd have said the same thing in public as I did in the message. So thinking that posting the contents of that is embarising to me or something...it's really not. It's poor form to do that, had you given me a reply asking not to discuss things in PM, and had I ignored it...that'd be another story.
As far as my PM being considerate...I sent it to give you an understanding of why I don't much care what level I climb at, I read what you wrote as an insult, and addressed it accordingly. The "consideration" was in not insulting you publicly at first, and letting you think about what I said without the public mudslinging, while at the same time demonstrating my frustration with your comments/ attitude. Considering your response, I'd say I was at least partially correct.
I get of lot of bull, from various users questioning what I know, based on what level I climb at. Your post appeared to be along those same very lines...you got my responce to that, perhaps with some past frustrations as well...it things are as you say..that you didn't mean what you said as an insult (which would be the first time in a while) then I have no problem in admitting that my comment was over the line.
However, given how I understood it (past tense), I'll stand by it, and would have said the same publicly were it not the 5th page of this relativly unproductive thread. This message as well would be in private, had you extended the same courtisy.
While you may have signifigantly more experience than I, that does not mean that I'm a noob, or that my opinion is invalid. Had you approached me differently, I may have taken your suggestions to heart.
This is looking strangly similiar to an argument I've already had once this thread.
Doing all this shit on this thread is getting to be pointless. If you DO want to continue this, then I'll let YOU send the first PM.
Jim
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jt512
Jan 6, 2007, 6:57 AM
Post #130 of 152
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jimdavis wrote: I get of lot of bull, from various users questioning what I know, based on what level I climb at.
Jim, what you fail to understand is that it is not "bull." If you only climb 5.9 or .10-, then your understanding of climbing movement is rudimentary. At the end of a 4-day course in climbing, the best students in the class will likely already out-climb you. You are under the bizarre misconception that introductory climbing instruction should be restricted to safety and equipment. Hence, you think that you are qualified to design climbing curricula, in spite of your paucity of actual climbing skill. That could not be farther from the truth. Even back in 1985, when I took my first climbing lesson at the Yosemite Mountaineering School, we were taught rudimentary climbing movement skills before we ever put on a swami, tied a single knot, or learned to belay.
Jay
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jimdavis
Jan 6, 2007, 7:16 AM
Post #131 of 152
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jt512 wrote: jimdavis wrote: I get of lot of bull, from various users questioning what I know, based on what level I climb at. Jim, what you fail to understand is that it is not "bull." If you only climb 5.9 or .10-, then your understanding of climbing movement is rudimentary. At the end of a 4-day course in climbing, the best students in the class will likely already out-climb you. You are under the bizarre misconception that introductory climbing instruction should be restricted to safety and equipment. Hence, you think that you are qualified to design climbing curricula, in spite of your paucity of actual climbing skill. That could not be farther from the truth. Even back in 1985, when I took my first climbing lesson at the Yosemite Mountaineering School, we were taught rudimentary climbing movement skills before we ever put on a swami, tied a single knot, or learned to belay. Jay
Jay, I don't really disagree with you that much. And your welcome to not belive a word I have to say now, but it's not so much that I don't have an understanding of climbing movement, I just don't often build up the finger strength to do much harder stuff.
I've climbed a 12 on slab before, and a short 11 or two...when I was climbing strong, and was motivated to climb harder. I've spent a lot of time working at a gym, and get to boulder a lot too...it's usally my wrist that give out...not get stumbled by a lack of technique. I'm not the type of person to give excuses, but as I chose to say in confidence to Plexus, which is apparently fair game for the rest of the boards...I still have a bone chip in my wrist, about the size of a dime, from a snowboarding accident. It only bothers me when I have to crimp hard with my left hand, or pull really hard...but I don't think not having my left hand for 6 months after surgery is worth it, at this point in time.
I'm not claimed to be some kind of expert at movement, but I do have a decent understanding of technique. I'm not gonna say I can coach some one up a 13, or even a 12...depending on the nature of the climb....but I know enough to teach beginner courses, and a few intermediate ones.
I've yet to have a student sign up for a intro trip that could climb above 5.9...it hasn't been a problem. And on my trips, I do offer some beta on routes, or techniques to try. Every trip I lead, I get anonymos feedback forms from all of my participants...if it was a problem, I'd address it, and admit to it.
If I was embarrased about the level I climb at, I wouldn't have put it up in my profile.
When users call BS on my hard skills, due to what I climb at...then yea, that's bull.
Jim
(This post was edited by jimdavis on Jan 6, 2007, 7:27 AM)
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svilnit
Jan 6, 2007, 11:51 AM
Post #132 of 152
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Hmm.... How 'bout them *insert your sports team here*?
(This post was edited by svilnit on Jan 6, 2007, 11:52 AM)
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rokgot
Jan 7, 2007, 4:46 AM
Post #133 of 152
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jim
i would just ignore jt512, just your run of the mill stick-clipping sportard, not a real climber, just a trophy grabber and chest pumper
i remember an old saying, it went something like
"first come back alive, second come back as buddies, third get to the top"
jay has this ass backwards...
for him its, first I will get to the top, second I don't want to be your friend any way, and third if you die, i'll just take your firewood
i mean what kind of person are we dealing with who takes a dead guy's firewood, but there is a lack of ethics with sportards anyways, so i quess it was to be expected
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bukeithw
Jan 7, 2007, 3:46 PM
Post #134 of 152
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General response to this whole thread, not just jimdavis:
i'd just like to publicly come out and say, good job. From oh, about the second post on this thread, it has morphed from an on-topic discussion of SUGGESTIONS of FUN THINGS to do for an intro to leading class, to a trip to a gym, checking out each other's muscles. Well i just want to let everyone here know..
my penis is way bigger than yours... i look better than you, i'm cooler than you, i fuck more girls than you do, i'm younger, better, smarter; i could go on forever *insert dripping sarcasm here*
you people, pretty much everyone who has posted here, are embarrasing to this forum, and to rock climbing in general. If I referred someone to this forum, for any reason, and this was what they read, i'd be embarrased, really. And that's weird, cause normally, i consider myself an asshole! 6 pages of childish name-calling, checking each other out at the urinal to see who's bigger, all for a post that was COMPLETELY off topic! Its none of your business to rule on wether or not the OP is qualified to teach an intro lead class in what seems to be a very contained environment (aka a gym possibly) Its not up to you to deem him worthy; or even to tell him what to teach.. he wanted helpful hints of things to fill the time with, like when you have an intro class play Add-On or any other climbing game.. jesus is that so hard to see??
i know you're gonna tell me, if you don't like it, don't read it, but no, there has to be a line... i'm big on free speech, but i really think this is wayy too much, you're despicable... we're supposed to be a community.. there has to be some type of order, or at least, politeness...
and besides that, you think flexing your 'net-muscles makes anyone think any better of you?? all of you say ohhh i don't care how i climb, but i'm better than you, etc. that sort of thing, you're all the same; and i'm ashamed to be a part of this group, this forum...
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jabtocrag
Jan 7, 2007, 4:38 PM
Post #135 of 152
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jt512 wrote: If you only climb 5.9 or .10-, then your understanding of climbing movement is rudimentary.
I don't think this is always true. You're overlooking people who may have physical limitations that prevent them from climbing at higher grades, but may have years of experience and perfect form/technique. On the flip side, I've seen a number of climbers with such god-given talent that they can scream up a 5.12 with sloppier form than I'd see on a 5.9 climbing gumbie.
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jt512
Jan 7, 2007, 4:46 PM
Post #136 of 152
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rokgot wrote: i mean what kind of person are we dealing with who takes a dead guy's firewood
a. Someone whose own firewood was stolen earlier that day.
b. Someone who realizes the dead guy isn't likely to need the wood.
c. Someone who who thinks leaving a bunch of scrap lumber laying around the desert is unsightly.
d. All of the above.
HTH
Jay
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socalclimber
Jan 7, 2007, 5:47 PM
Post #137 of 152
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[quote "bukeithw
my penis is way bigger than yours... i look better than you, i'm cooler than you, i fuck more girls than you do, i'm younger, better, smarter; i could go on forever *insert dripping sarcasm here*
Wow, it that's all you got out of this thread, I would suggest you speak to the Dean of your college and ask for your money back.
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rokgot
Jan 7, 2007, 6:04 PM
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jt512 wrote: rokgot wrote: i mean what kind of person are we dealing with who takes a dead guy's firewood a. Someone whose own firewood was stolen earlier that day. b. Someone who realizes the dead guy isn't likely to need the wood. c. Someone who who thinks leaving a bunch of scrap lumber laying around the desert is unsightly. d. All of the above. HTH Jay
C. Acceptable
Bill
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bukeithw
Jan 7, 2007, 7:31 PM
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From wikipedia, since i'm too tired to type this up myself or look it up in a more reputable dictionary..
Sarcasm:
"Sarcasm is sneering, jesting, or mocking a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound[1] -- stating the opposite of the intended meaning, e.g. using "that's amazing" to mean "that's awful". It is used in a humorous manner, often harshly, and is expressed through vocal intonations such as over-emphasizing the actual statement or particular words. Use of sarcasm is sometimes viewed as an expression of concealed anger[2] or annoyance."
Hyperbole:
"Largely synonymous with exaggeration and overstatement, hyperbole is a figure of speech in which statements are exaggerated or extravagant. It may be used due to strong feelings or is used to create a strong impression and is not meant to be taken literally. It gives greater emphasis. It is often used in poetry and is a literary device."
Oh and thank you for completely skipping over the real purpose of my post, which was twofold: A. to point out the mostly irrelevant conversation, based on the OP's request for ideas of "fun things to do", not a question of "am I personally qualified to teach this class." He didn't ask for anyone's approval. Second, my point was to point out the complete lack of social decorum present here, as evidenced by the complete disregard for common courtesy and prevalence of snide, backbiting remarks.
And lastly, thank you socialclimber for not addressing my argument at all; your point is a complete fallacy, called an ad hominem argument, attacking the man and not the argument. Please, if you have anything of substance to reply with, i'm all ears...
But thanks for the tip, i'll get right on that I'm sure, as the above I learned in oh, 10th grade, while quite possibly you still haven't picked up the ideas...
annnnnd the one highlight of my post you attacked was loosely based on a quote fight club, just kinda ran with it... apologies if it offends virgin ears.. or eyes?
(This post was edited by bukeithw on Jan 8, 2007, 3:42 AM)
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socalclimber
Jan 8, 2007, 2:04 AM
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Wow, you're an original thinker. I didn't miss a step in your post. Nice try though.
"apologies if it offends virgin ears.. or eyes? "
Now that's funny.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 8, 2007, 2:08 AM)
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wanderlustmd
Jan 8, 2007, 2:36 AM
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"you're point is a complete fallacy..."
Evidently, wikipedia and/or 10th grade didn't teach you proper grammer.
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socalclimber
Jan 8, 2007, 2:47 AM
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Apparenly school hasn't taught him much of anything.
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jabtocrag
Jan 8, 2007, 3:18 AM
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wanderlustmd wrote: "you're point is a complete fallacy..." Evidently, wikipedia and/or 10th grade didn't teach you proper grammer.
Emphasis Mine!!
Oh the irony!!
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bukeithw
Jan 8, 2007, 3:39 AM
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Evidently no one is going to respond to anything I said besides to attack me personally or my use of grammar... my apologies for not proof reading every line for perfect diction and syntax; it is extremely ironic that you misspelled grammar though, thanks for the laugh.. just a tip, next time you're going to try and call someone out on something, don't make the same mistake, ass.
Congratulations to all of you for not responding at all to any argument I made, your avoidance just shows your reluctance to actually write anything of substance. What exactly do you get out of attempting to cut down people online; you're on a rock climbing forum, I'm sure you all have lives, but you seem to take too much pleasure in belittling others.
As you have not yet said anything with any validity, but rather have done the opposite and have just tried to get me angry, I'm not going to waste any more time with this thread, so you don't have to bother with not actually responding to my arguments but just searching for grammatical errors or throwing out personal attacks about my "education" or lack thereof. Enjoy your lives gentlemen, its pretty obvious I'm not going to get anywhere else in this "discussion" and I use that word loosely. Glad you can all try and talk all tough over the internet, congratulations.
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bukeithw
Jan 8, 2007, 3:43 AM
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Haha whether you agree with me or not I do not care; nice catch, I didn't notice that one... ironic yes, enjoy your night.
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markc
Jan 8, 2007, 2:19 PM
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bukeithw wrote: From oh, about the second post on this thread, it has morphed from an on-topic discussion of SUGGESTIONS of FUN THINGS to do for an intro to leading class, to a trip to a gym, checking out each other's muscles. Its none of your business to rule on whether or not the OP is qualified to teach an intro lead class in what seems to be a very contained environment (aka a gym possibly) Its not up to you to deem him worthy; or even to tell him what to teach.. he wanted helpful hints of things to fill the time with, like when you have an intro class play Add-On or any other climbing game.. jesus is that so hard to see??
It's an open discussion forum. If people have concerns about the OP's ability to conduct the class safely, should they swallow that and suggest a speed-climbing contest at the end of the night to see who buys the first round? It sounds like this is the guys first time working with a sizable group of totally inexperienced people. From what he wrote, I see no evidence that he will have any help in the process. People may put it more bluntly than I did, but I can appreciate not sending this guy off with a pat on the ass.
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wanderlustmd
Jan 8, 2007, 2:50 PM
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The trophy thing has been lurking...I missed it the first time around, bring 'er back.
No hard feelings to anyone, but it's just a forum. We are all guilty of personal attacks at some point, so being elitist about a little vocal disagreement isn't really conductive to anything other than pissing more people off. No need to jump off the deep end, people just need a thicker skin sometimes. I can see what you are saying, bukeithw.
Or should I say "know 'ard feeeelllings to aneewun"
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socalclimber
Jan 9, 2007, 1:26 AM
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"bukeithw" got all butt hurt and whined:
"Evidently no one is going to respond to anything I said besides to attack me personally or my use of grammar"
Nobody is responding to anything you have said because you are an idiot. Oh, I forgot, you are in college, you have it all figured out.
If you are taking tons of bong hits, STOP. If you are not, START. Either way.....
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 9, 2007, 1:30 AM)
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markc
Jan 9, 2007, 9:38 PM
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socalclimber wrote: " bukeithw" got all butt hurt and whined: "Evidently no one is going to respond to anything I said besides to attack me personally or my use of grammar" Nobody is responding to anything you have said because you are an idiot. Oh, I forgot, you are in college, you have it all figured out. If you are taking tons of bong hits, STOP. If you are not, START. Either way.....
What I liked was being called an embarrassment to climbing. While that may be the case due to my climbing abilities, I didn't think anything I did online impacted it one way or the other.
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