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yuiruprup
Jan 22, 2007, 7:14 PM
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I, like the rest of you, love to climb, bike, hike, swim, run etc. I also have goals and want to get better and stronger in all of my hobbies. My question is, how specific does training need to get? Ive been questioning this alot recently because some of my climbing buddies (who climb harder than I do) sometimes skip other things we have always done together, such as ski/snowboard in order to go to the weightroom and focus on their climbing workouts. I used to lift weights and things like that but I would much rather be outside doing a sport than in the gym doing pull ups. Is anyone with me?
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jonzoclimber
Jan 22, 2007, 7:21 PM
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I'm pretty sure everyone's gonna feel the same way. Some places you simply can't do your activities sometimes, that's the only time I'm ever in the gym. Damn you Rhode Island!
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yuiruprup
Jan 22, 2007, 7:22 PM
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Well I live in North Carolina and frequently get rained out too. I share your pain.
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sidepull
Jan 22, 2007, 8:11 PM
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I think anyone will reach a point of diminishing returns with the philosophy of "just go and do it." In other words, I can become a good climber by simply climbing outside every weekend, but I won't become a great climber if I am not willing to sacrifice and really devote myself to a well-thought out training program.
Note that I'm not advocating weightlifting (which a is a separate debate); I'm advocating looking at your activity (whether it's climbing, snowboarding, or competitive ironing ) and deciding how committed you are to improving. If the answer is that you really really want to push yourself and be as good as you can be, then you're going to have to be systematic about it, and that might mean foregoing some activities (because they don't fit in with what you're doing training-wise), viewing some days as practice versus performance days, etc.
Also, it seems that an implicit part of your question is an assumption that training takes the fun out of the activity. While that may be true for some because they view training as monotonous or an abstract activity that isn't very well related to the "pure" pursuit, I would suggest that training can actually enhance the activity by preventing injury, providing the thrill of achieving goals, and opening up new directions for improvment.
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sgauss
Jan 22, 2007, 8:20 PM
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"The book is still out on science."
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adklimber
Jan 22, 2007, 8:57 PM
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In reply to: how specific does training need to get?
If you are training for something "specific" like rock climbing, biking, football, etc it should be very specific.
In reply to: Ive been questioning this alot recently because some of my climbing buddies (who climb harder than I do) sometimes skip other things we have always done together
What are you questioning? Your buddies probably climb harder because climbing is a priority over the other things you like to do.
In reply to: Is anyone with me?
No, I am not.
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baja_java
Jan 22, 2007, 9:10 PM
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yuiruprup wrote: I, like the rest of you, love to climb, bike, hike, swim, run etc. I also have goals and want to get better and stronger in all of my hobbies. My question is, how specific does training need to get? Ive been questioning this alot recently because some of my climbing buddies (who climb harder than I do) sometimes skip other things we have always done together, such as ski/snowboard in order to go to the weightroom and focus on their climbing workouts. I used to lift weights and things like that but I would much rather be outside doing a sport than in the gym doing pull ups. Is anyone with me?
i for one am most certainly not with you. working out inside is just as important, and may well influence the amount of outside climbing you get to do. it's good to be strong and able to kick ass, and just as important, to be able to convey this impending violence as part of any conflict resolution right from the get-go. because if you exude badassness of this omnipotency, you would, say, never have to wait in line on popular routes, therefore less time wasted idling about and more time actually climbing, therefore the more climbing you get to do outside. you don't have to flex your biceps and be a jerk or anything. you just have to have that confidence that comes naturally with overwhelming physical superiority, that one look at you and they'd instantly know that you could "remove them from the line" in two kill moves or less. if people ahead of you decide on their own to instead climb after you, without you having said anything or done anything, why, that's really just random kindness, you know, a senseless act of beauty on their part. anyway, what i'm trying to say is, forget the pull-up's. work on your kill moves
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ajkclay
Jan 22, 2007, 10:47 PM
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I agree with sidepull to an extent but I'd also like to add the thought that other activities such as snow-boarding, surfing, mtb, etc. can still be done and seen as cross-training to remove the potentially negative effects of overtraining and training boredom which can be even more damaging to your long-term goals than not training right...
Look for instance at the main body-focus of an alternative activity (let's say surfing) and work out what it uses, then substitue it every now and hen for a specific part of your training... so our example of surfing uses a lot of core strength right? Ok, so you just go surfing instead of doing your pilates/yoga/crunches (whatever you do for that aspect).
I used to Kayak competitively and for a long time would not even drink beer or eat some foods that I liked... then i realised that what I was doing was actually placing far too much focus on one aspect of my life and sacrifing too much of everything else to the detriment of my overall well-being for the sake of perhaps .01 seconds... I decided to stop being so anal about my training and performance and my times actually improved to levels I had only ever dreamed about because I was happy and enthusiastic about my training - it stopped feeling like a death sentence when I got up to train at 5.00am in the middle of winter.
I guess what I am saying is this: Goals are great. But don't get so fixed on achieving one of them that you forget about the goal of living a full and happy life because in 30 years time when you look back and remember the one time you climbed 5.13 will it be enough to compensate for the things you didn't do like go to the beach or snow with your friends?
Life is multi-dimensional, if you are smart your training can be too.
Cheers
Adam
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fancyclaps
Jan 22, 2007, 10:48 PM
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I will go with some other people on this and second the, It Depends.
However I am a bit more on the fence about it than other people. Yes training does give you the satisfaction of doing harder routes and experiencing the joy of being able to spray about climbing 5.whatsit to some n00b chick at the gym. But it does take away from time you could spend doing things besides working through brutal routines on a hangboard.
I have said this before, and I will say it again(and probably again) climbing is a personal sport. You have to find what satisfies you with climbing. If you just want to climb 5.8s on toprope then climb 5.8s on toprope. But you should be prepared to deal with macho shit talking from some asshats, because some people aren't content to let other people do their own thing. Some people(including myself) are driven by the urge to be better and stronger and spray harder to the hot new climber chick, so we are interested in training.
Just go do what makes you happy, and if your climbing buddies aren't interested in that, then only hang out with them when you climb and find different people to do other stuff with.
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lena_chita
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Jan 23, 2007, 8:16 PM
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Another "It Depends" vote here...
Sounds like your buddies just have different goals that you do. They may not be making best choices for their climbing training (separate issue), or they may be doing the exact right thing for them, but that's not the point. For them climbing is a priority. For you, it is one of the few things you like to do. And that's perfectly fine. Just don't expect everyone to share your values.
I would use myself as an example-- in addition to climbing I do other things-- yoga. skiing, etc.
BUT-- skiing for me a family-oriented recreational activity. I am quite content to be on the easy slopes with my kids. I am not driven to improve my skiing all that much, I'm not dreaming of taking a skiing vacation, of going to Utah, or Lake Tahoe, or what have you. Skiing once a week for 8 weeks satisfies my "skiing itch" for the year. I am sure I could become a better skier if I made some effort, took classes, skied more-- but I don't want to, I'm sure that as I continue skiing with my kids every winter I will get somewhat better at it, and I'll be very happy with it, of course, but I'm not taking any major steps towards that, it isn't really a goal.
And yoga-- again, I love doing it and I love how it affects me, but I'm not really into becoming a "real" yogi. If anything, yoga is a tool, a means to an end, rather than a goal in itself. I would love to do yoga every day, but it isn't my priority.
On the other hand, climbing is passion. Climbing is what I want to do every spare moment. And not just climbing as I climb now-- I want to get better at it. I believe I can climb better than I climb now, and I want to get there-- unlike skiing, which can stay at the current level and I don't care. So I train for it-- but no, not by doing pull-ups, lol...
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yuiruprup
Jan 23, 2007, 9:20 PM
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What are you questioning? Your buddies probably climb harder because climbing is a priority over the other things you like to do.
Well I think they climb harder than me because they have been climbing for MUCH longer than me.
I think I should have been more specific and mentioned things such as people monitoring their calory intake, body weight index, introducing a bunch of statistics into their training. I train, but I do not focus on a bunch of numbers. Numbers dont make you climb harder.
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sidepull
Jan 23, 2007, 9:35 PM
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ajkclay wrote: I agree with sidepull to an extent but I'd also like to add the thought that other activities such as snow-boarding, surfing, mtb, etc. can still be done and seen as cross-training to remove the potentially negative effects of overtraining and training boredom which can be even more damaging to your long-term goals than not training right... ... Life is multi-dimensional, if you are smart your training can be too.
I agree with this. In fact, I think if you're self-aware and truly understand what you're trying to achieve then training enhances the multi-dimensionality of life because it allows you to achieve more.
Along those lines, and to address the OP's concern with his friends' attention to details, I think the more committed you are to a set of goals the more likely you are to break it down to smaller more manageable parts. As others have mentioned, this seems to be more about the disconnects between your goals and your friends' goals rather than your friends being anal or too detail oriented.
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zakadamsgt
Jan 23, 2007, 9:57 PM
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"Science-damn you!"
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miademus
Jan 24, 2007, 11:08 AM
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In reply to: I think anyone will reach a point of diminishing returns with the philosophy of "just go and do it." In other words, I can become a good climber by simply climbing outside every weekend, but I won't become a great climber if I am not willing to sacrifice and really devote myself to a well-thought out training program. i can just agree a thousend times with this paragraph.
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fracture
Jan 24, 2007, 11:43 AM
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yuiruprup wrote: I used to lift weights and things like that but I would much rather be outside doing a sport than in the gym doing pull ups.
If we're talking pullups, it sounds like you've got it exactly backwards: not enough science in their training.
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