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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 6:36 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: But seriously, I think this was a good test, as I've thought of this as an end-all action to take if I had no other options. But even then, I'd still try to find as many other ways as possible before I cut my rope up. Seriously, once you do that, there's no going back. I'd much rather sit for a couple of days without food or water with a healthy rope thinking of what to do next than break apart my most useful piece of equipment. There has to be a way to get out of a situation without tearing apart your rope. I mean, you got to that point, right? Surely you can get somewhere else. There's a reason why we Mainers say "you can't get theah from heah" as a joke. If you're stuck where you are, get to another location and keep moving until you aren't stuck any more. That may not be easy, and may require several trials and errors, but there has to be a solution somewhere. Nice work Angry. The original discussion was not about a healthy 60 meter rope but a freaking rock fall cutting your rope where you end up with short section of a rope in your hand on the ledge. You still want to sit hopeless on a ledge waving hand for condors till their meal is ready or you want to rap? OK, so I didn't get the original topic. My bad, sorry about that. But my point remains the same; rapping is not the only alternative. You've got gear on you, right? Plug it and move. If there are no pro opportunities, move until you find some. I'm not saying it is easy, I'm just saying that rapping isn't the only solution, even if you you've only got five feet of rope available. There has to be something nearby, or else how did you get there in the first place? I wouldn't wait for the condors to eat me. I'd play dead and catch them when they flew in for a meal, break their necks and eat them raw off the bone.  Grrrrrr...
I wish every climber was Rambo like yourself but no sir, you need to read some of the rescue reports then you will find out what they do out there.
History has proven that; people who constantly challenge their comfort zone have higher chances to survive then those sitting on the ledge .
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Gmburns2000
May 13, 2008, 6:36 PM
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angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope.
Exactly. Even then, there are ways of doing a controlled fall. This would hurt at 30 feet, but I've done this on shorter distances hundreds of times while hiking. It is possible to downclimb as much as you can, and prepare for a controlled fall / landing when the terrain gets too tough. At least then you have some sort of chance of breaking your fall. You've got little chance of breaking your fall if the rope breaks.
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 6:38 PM
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angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope.
How are you going to down climb an AID FACE where there are no hold, no crack no NADA
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Gmburns2000
May 13, 2008, 6:44 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: I wish every climber was Rambo like yourself but no sir, you need to read some of the rescue reports then you will find out what they do out there. History has proven that; people who constantly challenge their comfort zone have higher chances to survive then those sitting on the ledge .
Which is why I'd try to find alternatives to rapping off something I wouldn't think would work (i.e. - climbing with the resources at my disposal until I get myself free vs destroying my resources in desperation). But I will almost always try to do something as close to within my known ability first before pushing my limits in this situation. Exhausting my known options just seems like a better idea than diving into the unknown. Of course, at some point, risks must be taken, but even then the risks can be calculated and mitigated based on knowledge and thinking.
But hey, my Rambo to your McGyver. Who wins? You're probably more knowledgeable than I am, so you get down faster than me, but I'm not letting the condors pick at me without a fight!
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angry
May 13, 2008, 6:44 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope. How are you going to down climb an AID FACE where there are no hold, no crack no NADA
You aided 30 feet off the ground to ledge and ended up there with only 5 feet of rope?
Is that what you are saying?
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 6:46 PM
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angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope. How are you going to down climb an AID FACE where there are no hold, no crack no NADA You aided 30 feet off the ground to ledge and ended up there with only 5 feet of rope? Is that what you are saying?
How many times you climbed a section but rap from another area where the whole wall is clean like a mirror ?
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angry
May 13, 2008, 6:48 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope. How are you going to down climb an AID FACE where there are no hold, no crack no NADA You aided 30 feet off the ground to ledge and ended up there with only 5 feet of rope? Is that what you are saying? How many times you climbed a section but rap from another area where the whole wall is clean like a mirror ?
How many times do you take a separate rap route that ends 30 feet off the ground on a ledge?
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irregularpanda
May 13, 2008, 6:50 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: How many times you climbed a section but rap from another area where the whole wall is clean like a mirror ?
Like wizard sleeve?
Nevermind. Apparently I'm the only person here who thinks that the original scenario involved 6 rappels down to the bottom of a waterfall. MAybe I'm just crazy. Maybe somebody should link me to this f-ing scenario with 30 feet of rappelling with only 5 feet of rope.
C'est la Vie and all that crap.
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 6:57 PM
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angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: rapping is not the only alternative. When pushed, I can downclimb into the mid to upper 11 range. I'd give that a go before rapping 30 feet on bullshit. As long as I didn't fall in the first few moves I'd have as much chance of surviving the fall as I would on the rope. How are you going to down climb an AID FACE where there are no hold, no crack no NADA You aided 30 feet off the ground to ledge and ended up there with only 5 feet of rope? Is that what you are saying? How many times you climbed a section but rap from another area where the whole wall is clean like a mirror ? How many times do you take a separate rap route that ends 30 feet off the ground on a ledge?
Our discussion and I hope your test is not about rapping with 5 feet of rope as an standard methods to rap on walls but an alternative SOL solution incase you have no rope other than that 5 feet while sitting on a ledge where you got only one option. Either fall or rap.
Let’s not talk about, you can down climb or call mommy for help or wait for SAR to show up 8 days later ok.
Again, my question from you is this;
Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not?
Just say yes or no
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WVUCLMBR
May 13, 2008, 7:02 PM
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God I love days like this on rc.com 
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dutyje
May 13, 2008, 7:09 PM
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OK.. so let's get this story straight.. I've rapped to a ledge that is just 30 ft off the ground, and beneath this anchor is a sheet of glass, and this ledge has a rap station...
I had to cut the ends off my stupid Petzl Zephyr, so I barely made it to the ledge with rope stretch... and when begin to pull that rope down, a Pterodactyl swoops by and severs the rope, leaving me with 5 feet and the remainder of the rope tumbles down the rest of the cliff.
Where is my partner in all this? Where is our gear? Do we not carry runners? I've got 5 ft of rope.. I'll fix that to the anchor and tie a loop on the other end.. there, I'm down 4 ft... 26 to go... clip a runner in to that.. I'm down 2 more feet... biner.. runner.. etc.. I'm out of biners? girth hitch... Am I getting close? I know I usually have at least one double runner.. that'll get me another 4 ft...
Did we build anchors on this climb? Surely I've got at least one equalette on me... whoah that's 22 feet right there.. ok too easy... what about the 2 prusiks that I've always got on me... I could untie those and have 10 feet....
I've got pants and a shirt.. I'd trust those more than Angry's threads.. tie 'em on.. Batman down 'em...
Am I getting close? or am I to assume that fate has plopped me naked on a ledge 30 feet above a sheet of glass with nothing but a 5-ft long bunch of climbing rope, my harness, an ATC, and a knife?
I suppose my partner's the prankster responsible for my current state.. probably drugged me up and ran away with all our gear and clothes.
There is no realistic scenario where disassembling your rope is the safest available option. Lovely basis for a theoretical discussion, this has gone beyond ludicrous.
I'm going to make a bold prediction that in the next 1,000 years of climbing, nobody will ever be in the situation that their life or death hinges on their knowledge of/ability to execute this craptacular bit of rope surgery.
(This post was edited by dutyje on May 13, 2008, 7:11 PM)
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angry
May 13, 2008, 7:09 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Our discussion and I hope your test is not about rapping with 5 feet of rope as an standard methods to rap on walls but an alternative SOL solution incase you have no rope other than that 5 feet while sitting on a ledge where you got only one option. Either fall or rap. Let’s not talk about, you can down climb or call mommy for help or wait for SAR to show up 8 days later ok. Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no
The answer, that I've been quite clear about in this situation is NO.
I can't rap 30 feet with 5 feet. You can't rap 30 feet feet with 5.
No-one can rap 30 feet with 5.
That's been my point the whole time.
I've made this clear on several different posts on this thread.
Do you understand? I've tested your method and it failed. Catastrophically.
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irregularpanda
May 13, 2008, 7:13 PM
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dutyje wrote: I'm going to make a bold prediction that in the next 1,000 years of climbing, nobody will ever be in the situation that their life or death hinges on their knowledge of/ability to execute this craptacular bit of rope surgery.
I would normally agree with you. But have you ever seen that retarded show, Man VS Wild?
Some moron could get paid to do exactly this.
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epoch
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May 13, 2008, 7:13 PM
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dutyje wrote: OK.. so let's get this story straight.. I've rapped to a ledge that is just 30 ft off the ground, and beneath this anchor is a sheet of glass, and this ledge has a rap station... I had to cut the ends off my stupid Petzl Zephyr, so I barely made it to the ledge with rope stretch... and when begin to pull that rope down, a Pterodactyl swoops by and severs the rope, leaving me with 5 feet and the remainder of the rope tumbles down the rest of the cliff. Where is my partner in all this? Where is our gear? Do we not carry runners? I've got 5 ft of rope.. I'll fix that to the anchor and tie a loop on the other end.. there, I'm down 4 ft... 26 to go... clip a runner in to that.. I'm down 2 more feet... biner.. runner.. etc.. I'm out of biners? girth hitch... Am I getting close? I know I usually have at least one double runner.. that'll get me another 4 ft... Did we build anchors on this climb? Surely I've got at least one equalette on me... whoah that's 22 feet right there.. ok too easy... what about the 2 prusiks that I've always got on me... I could untie those and have 10 feet.... I've got pants and a shirt.. I'd trust those more than Angry's threads.. tie 'em on.. Batman down 'em... Am I getting close? or am I to assume that fate has plopped me naked on a ledge 30 feet above a sheet of glass with nothing but a 5-ft long bunch of climbing rope, my harness, an ATC, and a knife? I suppose my partner's the prankster responsible for my current state.. probably drugged me up and ran away with all our gear and clothes. There is no realistic scenario where disassembling your rope is the safest available option. Lovely basis for a theoretical discussion, this has gone beyond ludicrous. I'm going to make a bold prediction that in the next 1,000 years of climbing, nobody will ever be in the situation that their life or death hinges on their knowledge of/ability to execute this craptacular bit of rope surgery.
Gold.
Just..... [expletive] gold!
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 7:14 PM
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angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Our discussion and I hope your test is not about rapping with 5 feet of rope as an standard methods to rap on walls but an alternative SOL solution incase you have no rope other than that 5 feet while sitting on a ledge where you got only one option. Either fall or rap. Let’s not talk about, you can down climb or call mommy for help or wait for SAR to show up 8 days later ok. Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no The answer, that I've been quite clear about in this situation is NO. I can't rap 30 feet with 5 feet. You can't rap 30 feet feet with 5. No-one can rap 30 feet with 5. That's been my point the whole time. I've made this clear on several different posts on this thread. Do you understand? I've tested your method and it failed. Catastrophically.
You failed due to lack of skills and not knowing how to use tools to create friction.
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 7:17 PM
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dutyje wrote: OK.. so let's get this story straight.. I've rapped to a ledge that is just 30 ft off the ground, and beneath this anchor is a sheet of glass, and this ledge has a rap station... I had to cut the ends off my stupid Petzl Zephyr, so I barely made it to the ledge with rope stretch... and when begin to pull that rope down, a Pterodactyl swoops by and severs the rope, leaving me with 5 feet and the remainder of the rope tumbles down the rest of the cliff. Where is my partner in all this? Where is our gear? Do we not carry runners? I've got 5 ft of rope.. I'll fix that to the anchor and tie a loop on the other end.. there, I'm down 4 ft... 26 to go... clip a runner in to that.. I'm down 2 more feet... biner.. runner.. etc.. I'm out of biners? girth hitch... Am I getting close? I know I usually have at least one double runner.. that'll get me another 4 ft... Did we build anchors on this climb? Surely I've got at least one equalette on me... whoah that's 22 feet right there.. ok too easy... what about the 2 prusiks that I've always got on me... I could untie those and have 10 feet.... I've got pants and a shirt.. I'd trust those more than Angry's threads.. tie 'em on.. Batman down 'em... Am I getting close? or am I to assume that fate has plopped me naked on a ledge 30 feet above a sheet of glass with nothing but a 5-ft long bunch of climbing rope, my harness, an ATC, and a knife? I suppose my partner's the prankster responsible for my current state.. probably drugged me up and ran away with all our gear and clothes. There is no realistic scenario where disassembling your rope is the safest available option. Lovely basis for a theoretical discussion, this has gone beyond ludicrous. I'm going to make a bold prediction that in the next 1,000 years of climbing, nobody will ever be in the situation that their life or death hinges on their knowledge of/ability to execute this craptacular bit of rope surgery.
wrong
in Nov of 2004, a big wall climber was found fronzen to death ,less than 20 feet of the Zodiac base cause his rap rope ended up been too short.
Why his rope was short ?
Cause he jammed his jummar 5 pitches up and had to cut a section of his rope to free it and ended up coming up short.
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wmfork
May 13, 2008, 7:19 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no
Majid, your b.s. has been called out. Period. The only way to end this gracefully for you is a) admit you are wrong b) prove you are right by rapping 30 ft with 5 FEET of rope, not 5 METERS, not with any specialized equipment that a person would not normally carry up a climb that you HAVE NOT mentioned in your original scenario.
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irregularpanda
May 13, 2008, 7:23 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: You failed due to lack of skills and not knowing how to use tools to create friction.
OK Majid, I think this is the first time I get to actually quote myself, ever.
irregularpanda wrote: This is that point in the thread when you keep talking shit without any proof to back yourself up (video), and you don't shut up about it unless a mod steps in and insults you too. Maybe, just maybe, you could show a video of your stupid pissing contest to prove yourself right (wrong) so that you aren't clowned on by a moderator, again. Hows the new carabiner design coming along by the way? Do you have the new and improved oval carabiner whose pin/notch actually engages while weighted? In reply to: So, instead of proving that you can rappell a weighted rope (which you didn't) and instead of proving that a pin does not engage the notch on carabiners (which you didn't) now, it's time for you to prove that you can rappell 30 feet, using only 5 feet of rope. Done. Stop talking shit. Pony up already. Sharing is caring. By the way, I still think the original scenario was to be approximately 6 full length rappels off the deck, contrary to what everybody else believes.... Edited because I hate double quoting.....stupid bullshit.
(This post was edited by irregularpanda on May 13, 2008, 7:26 PM)
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angry
May 13, 2008, 7:24 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Our discussion and I hope your test is not about rapping with 5 feet of rope as an standard methods to rap on walls but an alternative SOL solution incase you have no rope other than that 5 feet while sitting on a ledge where you got only one option. Either fall or rap. Let’s not talk about, you can down climb or call mommy for help or wait for SAR to show up 8 days later ok. Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no The answer, that I've been quite clear about in this situation is NO. I can't rap 30 feet with 5 feet. You can't rap 30 feet feet with 5. No-one can rap 30 feet with 5. That's been my point the whole time. I've made this clear on several different posts on this thread. Do you understand? I've tested your method and it failed. Catastrophically. You failed due to lack of skills and not knowing how to use tools to create friction.
No Majid.
I did not fail.
Your. Method. Failed.
I am certain that if you used your ultimate weekend warrior play-with-your-toys rescue 8 on the same test that it too, would break the line.
2 strands of core are that fragile. Do the test yourself. Put a crashpad at the bottom of your tree.
So here is your challenge. With 5 feet of rope, you need to rap 30 feet freehanging. You can use any gear, rap device, or whatever you'd like. The only restriction is that it has to work on the first try. You won't make it. I am as certain of this as I am certain that I could free solo your hardest climb before I do my warmup.
If I am wrong, next time I am in Yosemite I'll carry you up to Half Dome on my shoulders.
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 7:24 PM
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wmfork wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no Majid, your b.s. has been called out. Period. The only way to end this gracefully for you is a) admit you are wrong b) prove you are right by rapping 30 ft with 5 FEET of rope, not 5 METERS, not with any specialized equipment that a person would not normally carry up a climb that you HAVE NOT mentioned in your original scenario.
What if I show on film that I could rap with 5 feet of rope, some 30 feet with ATC and a few biners?.
What would say to Angry then ?
BS for failing to do his test correctly ?
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majid_sabet
May 13, 2008, 7:26 PM
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angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: angry wrote: majid_sabet wrote: Our discussion and I hope your test is not about rapping with 5 feet of rope as an standard methods to rap on walls but an alternative SOL solution incase you have no rope other than that 5 feet while sitting on a ledge where you got only one option. Either fall or rap. Let’s not talk about, you can down climb or call mommy for help or wait for SAR to show up 8 days later ok. Again, my question from you is this; Can you rap 30 feet with this SOL cord or not? Just say yes or no The answer, that I've been quite clear about in this situation is NO. I can't rap 30 feet with 5 feet. You can't rap 30 feet feet with 5. No-one can rap 30 feet with 5. That's been my point the whole time. I've made this clear on several different posts on this thread. Do you understand? I've tested your method and it failed. Catastrophically. You failed due to lack of skills and not knowing how to use tools to create friction. No Majid. I did not fail. Your. Method. Failed. I am certain that if you used your ultimate weekend warrior play-with-your-toys rescue 8 on the same test that it too, would break the line. 2 strands of core are that fragile. Do the test yourself. Put a crashpad at the bottom of your tree. So here is your challenge. With 5 feet of rope, you need to rap 30 feet freehanging. You can use any gear, rap device, or whatever you'd like. The only restriction is that it has to work on the first try. You won't make it. I am as certain of this as I am certain that I could free solo your hardest climb before I do my warmup. If I am wrong, next time I am in Yosemite I'll carry you up to Half Dome on my shoulders.
5 feet of rope, 30 feet of rap on commonly use rapping device (atc, 8..) . and you carry my ass up on 1/2 dome.
DEAL
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 13, 2008, 7:28 PM)
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wmfork
May 13, 2008, 7:27 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: What if I show on film that I could rap with 5 feet of rope, some 30 feet with ATC and a few biners?. What would say to Angry then ? BS for failing to do his test correctly ?
We've all been dying to see that...
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angry
May 13, 2008, 7:29 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: 5 feet of rope, 30 feet of rap on commonly use rapping device (atc, 8..) . and you carry my ass up on 1/2 dome. DEAL
Well if that's what you want. My offer was to actually carry you UP Half Dome. That's how certain I am that this won't work.
Edited to add. Nice edit skillz there. You got me on that one fer shur!!
(This post was edited by angry on May 13, 2008, 7:31 PM)
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