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JPKelly
Jun 26, 2008, 6:07 PM
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I read through the stickied carabiner thread above. I also read tons of reviews and did some searches through the archives. Cant quite find what im looking for.
I was wondering which carabiner i should use to attach my figure 8 rappelling device to my belay loop. I know the pear shaped biners have been mentioned as biners to use with rappelling devices, but wasnt sure exactly what was meant by this.
Should i use a pear shaped or get a d shaped (or asymetric d) for this? (this biner will see alot of rappelling)
Thanks.
James K.
(This post was edited by JPKelly on Jul 1, 2008, 3:56 PM)
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shimanilami
Jun 26, 2008, 6:13 PM
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Either.
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shockabuku
Jun 26, 2008, 6:26 PM
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Neither.
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brownie710
Jun 26, 2008, 6:52 PM
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my guess as to the last two "neither"s your thread got is that not many folks I know or have climbed next to have ever rocked anything but an atc or something similiar.
I dunno, maybe your only into rappelling though.
i used to work for an at-risk program and when we would use 8's on rappelling trips with the students it was always a big locking oval
good luck
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qwert
Jun 26, 2008, 7:18 PM
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doesnt really matter what biner you use, as long as it is a locking one.
There have been some accidents with figure eights, because the biner was rotating, forcing the eight to rest on the gate, and pushing it open. Hard to describe.
Solution: fixate the 8 to the biner. either for example with something like the dmm belay master, or with a simple rubber band.
anybody knows a site in english where this is described with pictures or something?
qwert
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the_climber
Jun 26, 2008, 7:23 PM
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Use the one with the locking gate.
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shockabuku
Jun 26, 2008, 7:53 PM
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Dude, you need to pay better attention. It was first an "either", followed by a "neither", and then your response should have been "nor". Get with the program.
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kennoyce
Jun 26, 2008, 8:01 PM
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any carabiner made will be strong enough for what you need, also since you are using a figure eight, the rope won't be wearing out the carabiner which means that the carabiner durability won't be affected. So basically as has been stated before, any locking biner will suffice.
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brownie710
Jun 27, 2008, 12:01 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Dude, you need to pay better attention. It was first an "either", followed by a "neither", and then your response should have been "nor". Get with the program.
hilarious, stuffy, but hilarious none the less
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JPKelly
Jun 27, 2008, 3:36 PM
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Thank you for the advice that was given.
Now thinking about it. Clipping directly into your belay loop(with biner) and then clipping into that biner with a fig. 8 descender...The 8 seems like it would be oriented oddly, not being in the position you would want it.
Is there a way to prevent this odd orientation, without clipping into the tie in points, to re orient your biner into a position that would make the 8 "flatter"? (A hotly debated subject(tie in points) i have come to realize after researching a bit)
I havent actually clipped in to see if it would be positioned odd, but it seems like it would be. Correct me if im wrong.
Ive read several stories from here of biners cross loading, gates opening.. and people falling.. Dont really want this situation on my hands. Ha.
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getout87
Jun 27, 2008, 4:37 PM
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JPKelly wrote: Thank you for the advice that was given. Now thinking about it. Clipping directly into your belay loop(with biner) and then clipping into that biner with a fig. 8 descender...The 8 seems like it would be oriented oddly, not being in the position you would want it. Is there a way to prevent this odd orientation, without clipping into the tie in points, to re orient your biner into a position that would make the 8 "flatter"? (A hotly debated subject(tie in points) i have come to realize after researching a bit) I havent actually clipped in to see if it would be positioned odd, but it seems like it would be. Correct me if im wrong. Ive read several stories from here of biners cross loading, gates opening.. and people falling.. Dont really want this situation on my hands. Ha.
Just use an ATC andyou won't have to worry about it; and if you don't want to do that, I think somebody makes a modified fig 8 with a 90 degree twist in the attachment point to remedy this. I could be wrong though, but I think I remember seeing it somewhere.
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JPKelly
Jun 27, 2008, 5:08 PM
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Cool. Ill just learn how to use an ATC then. Bump this 8 business for now. The ATC sounds alot easier anyway.
Thanks
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the_climber
Jun 27, 2008, 6:00 PM
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I clip into the belay loop with an 8. There is nothing wrong with it.
If you are really THAT worried about it attach the 8 so the break line is away from you and comes from the opposite side as your break hand. You'll have more than the same friction you are used to.
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jmvc
Jun 29, 2008, 11:19 AM
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JPKelly wrote: I havent actually clipped in to see if it would be positioned odd, but it seems like it would be. Correct me if im wrong. Ive read several stories from here of biners cross loading, gates opening.. and people falling.. Dont really want this situation on my hands. Ha.
Yes, an 8 does orient itself sideways if you attach it normally. I've never found it to be a problem.
And you won't have any of the other problems you mention if you lock your gate, and check your fig 8 and biner are properly loaded before unclipping, backing off something, or whatever you plan to do.
Backing up your abseil may be a good idea if you plan to do anything while descending.
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billcoe_
Jun 29, 2008, 1:58 PM
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Sorry: but the title of this thread struck me like one of those "Which fork should I use..." that Miss Manners is always tossing out.
Good advice up there. Get an ATC. However, if you insist, know that as you step over the edge, the belay device can slide down and via sideways torque: pop off the gate with the result that you fall to your death.
Although this has happened only a few times, it would really ruin your day to have it. The effect of this can be mitagated several ways.
1st) Always clip into your belay loop. Always, that why it's on your harness and Mfgs say to use it.
2nd) Although you already double checked that it was properly on, as you step over the edge or start to rap, weight the device, look at it again (triple check) then unclip your daisy or whatever you are into the anchor with and rappel.
3rd) Buy a biner with a plastic device to help the orintation. DMM calls theirs a Belay Master. Take care not to drop the plastic piece.
4th) Always use a prussic or a Petzl Shunt as a backup when rapping.
Here's some more info on that from the DMM site here: http://www.dmmclimbing.com/....asp?id=3&id2=91
Looks like this: 
Says :Belay Master
The Belay Master is a unique and patented combination of the Fat Boy HMS with an integral plastic clip that together increase the safety of the belay system.
The clip can only be locked into place when the screw gate barrel is tightened into the locked position, thus providing a fail-safe check that the biner is closed securely.
The plastic clip also stops the carabiner from rotating in the belay system and being cross loaded. "
That being said: I still use a steel Russian made type of figure 8 device with lockoff points as it works better for rapping single lines and locking off when cleaning. Better than a Cinch, Eddy or Gri Gri IMO. Better than an ATC and a Petzl Shunt combo (which I also still occasionally use) But there are huge potential and serious liabilities, and this cross loading issue is one of them.
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sungam
Jun 30, 2008, 8:43 AM
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belay master is the shizzles. You can get a steel biner version of it too, I believe.
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