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Gmburns2000
Oct 15, 2008, 11:35 PM
Post #51 of 54
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Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
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scottb wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I shouldn't have to worry every single time I place that cam that the trigger wire may pop if I over cam it. Seriously, who worries about that with any other cam?  Greg, here's why I'm not worried about this: *If this happens to one of your cams, it will be obvious when it actually happens. This isn't something that requires careful inspection.
While I didn't assume otherwise, this is good to know. I did have an instance this past weekend where the lobes of a friend's aliens did not spring back well, and so I asked her what was up. She said it needed cleaning. She cleaned it that night and it worked fine. But I guess my point is that it was easy to notice that presumed flaw, and it seems your point about this being easily noticed is well taken.
In reply to: *As far as I've been able to tell, this only happens when cleaning the piece. There is no way that I can imagine that the trigger wire would detach in between the time that you place it and the time that you would fall on it.
While I'm not going to rely on this entirely as the truth, I can see how it is certainly easier to push a cam in when fully cammed than it is to pull one out in the same circumstance (captain obvious, right?  ), and therefore I can see where pulling the trigger even farther than when it is fully cammed to remove it would be the best chance of this happening.
In reply to: *If it happens mid-climb and you need the piece again, a two-lobed piece is better than nothing. * You can fix it yourself.
I can see why that might be OK to some, but not to me. But that's neither here nor there.
In reply to: *I bought my C3s almost as soon as they were available. I have made plenty of less-than-perfect placements that have required aggressive cleaning and this hasn't happened yet. So I feel pretty confident that it's not going to happen with mine. Though I will keep it in mind when I inspect my gear from time to time.
I bought them, too, because I don't like Aliens that much. I haven't had this problem, but I really wanted to hear why people aren't worried. This helped. Thanks.
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josephgdawson
Oct 15, 2008, 11:43 PM
Post #52 of 54
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Registered: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 303
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I guess this is in addition to the design flaw that the cams suck to begin with.
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climbinginchico
Oct 16, 2008, 12:51 AM
Post #53 of 54
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Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
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I'm fully aware of how the cams function. I'm just saying that on mine it's impossible to pull the trigger far enough to pull the trigger wire out of the little plastic keeper under the trigger. The springs simply pack out and compress fully before enough force capable of noodling the trigger wire can be exerted. I think I had initially misunderstood and thought the spring had pulled from the trigger going up too far (yeah I'm retarded at times). It doesn't help that I'm typing this on my iPhone at work to get around the content blocker here. Makes it hard to read an entire post on the small screen.
I wonder how hard one would have to pull a c4 trigger wire out of the cam lobe. And would it noodle out or would the swage fail first? Design flaw?
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mhagny
Oct 16, 2008, 9:26 AM
Post #54 of 54
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Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 23
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I think what is happening is that there's a very slight variation in amount of crimp (tightness of the loop) on the end of the spring. Those spring loops that happen to be slightly more open are the ones that pop, and apparently I ended up with two instances of this (as luck would have it). Some of you have had C3s stand up to extensive use, including absorbing several falls, and I would venture a guess that your C3s happen to have wire loops that are very slightly tighter.
The problem with the slightly loose spring loops is that we cannot predict when they might pop. Maybe it happens only when retrieving the piece, but I would want some strong evidence of that before considering this design flaw a non-issue for safety purposes. In studying the problem, it certainly appears that the loop could pop after the piece is placed, particularly if there's some awkward rope drag, or in the craziness that occurs as the piece is being loaded while catching a fall, or as it is loaded as part of an anchor.
I would suggest that everyone with C3s who wishes to continue using them put theirs thru a stress test -- twist the stem repeatedly, bend it, etc. while holding the lobes partly compressed between your fingers. Try it again with the trigger partly pulled, and again with it fully pulled. If you can't get any springs to pop with all that, you probably have a safe C3 unit.
As for glue to help secure the loop ends, it had better be some strong, flexible stuff. You would probably accomplish a lot more by finding some very slender needle-nose pliers and attempting to crimp the loop a bit more.
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