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Grizvok
Dec 7, 2008, 10:57 PM
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pataphysicien wrote: thanks to aerili for the usual bit of sense in these threads. aerili wrote: 7. Which leads to my next point. Climber dudes who need to lose weight tend to try to go about it by only exercising half their body (the upper half). But you do need to preserve lean mass in your lower body, and as research shows, aerobic exercise doesn't do this. So strengthen your lower body; after all, it has the largest muscles in your body and can burn a whole lotta calories. Trust me, you can do this without getting huge legs which will weigh you down in climbing. Oh, and your knees will thank you for it eventually. I have been thinking about this. I climb and strengthen my upper body incl. antagonists. on off-days I've been doing 10k aerobic runs, 3 times a week. fitness-wise this works great, I used to run much more than this. so no feeling of overtraining. but recently I've had some discomfort on the inside of my right knee. I suspect it actually comes from climbing and not running, however as I do both it's really hard to tell. I do substitute some cycling here and there and after reading into it recently I'll try to fit in one or two HIIT sessions on the bike, as I want to go down some more in body fat. now my question to you is: what kind of strength training for the legs would you recommend? of course I don't want to bulk, but it would be great to a) burn some more calories down there and b) to help stabilize the knee more. thanks a lot for your efforts here 
Just wanted to state that you don't "burn some more calories down there." Spot reduction is a stupid myth, just because you run doesn't mean fat loss is localized in your legs.
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pataphysicien
Dec 7, 2008, 11:38 PM
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I don't know where you got it from that I was talking about 'spot reduction'. the point is that they are large muscle groups and working them out will lead to burning more calories than just working out the upper body.
I was clearly referring to her post, so reading that would be a good start before you comment on my question.
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theguy
Dec 8, 2008, 12:15 AM
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aerili wrote: even I don't understand everything
Ah, such touching modesty in the omniscient. Clearly a follower of the Tao Te Ching.
aerili wrote: Do your aerobic exercise in HIT format ...I do anywhere from 30 sec-2 min usually...my interval ends when I literally cannot push any longer at that pace at that time.
Are you an Arthur Jones adherent? You may wish to mention that there are other protocols such as Fartlek and Tabata...
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curtis_g
Dec 8, 2008, 1:08 AM
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bbowers wrote: What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? I feel like getting rid of this extra baggage will get me that extra performance I need.
Grits. Two bowls a day.
And drink a LOT of water when you climb.
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Valarc
Dec 8, 2008, 1:19 AM
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curtis_g wrote: bbowers wrote: What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? Grits. Two bowls a day.
I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty.
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curtis_g
Dec 8, 2008, 1:43 AM
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Valarc wrote: curtis_g wrote: bbowers wrote: What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? Grits. Two bowls a day. I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty.
You don't know what you're talking about.
Eating grits is more like eating crushed corn kernels with a little butter and salt.
And it's delicious. And cheap.
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Grizvok
Dec 8, 2008, 2:31 AM
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pataphysicien wrote: I don't know where you got it from that I was talking about 'spot reduction'. the point is that they are large muscle groups and working them out will lead to burning more calories than just working out the upper body. I was clearly referring to her post, so reading that would be a good start before you comment on my question.
You specifically said "burn calories down there." What the hell else is there to read?
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Valarc
Dec 8, 2008, 2:37 AM
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Grizvok wrote: pataphysicien wrote: I don't know where you got it from that I was talking about 'spot reduction'. the point is that they are large muscle groups and working them out will lead to burning more calories than just working out the upper body. I was clearly referring to her post, so reading that would be a good start before you comment on my question. You specifically said "burn calories down there." What the hell else is there to read?
His post made perfect sense to me. He said burn calories down there, not burn fat. It seemed pretty obvious to me he was saying getting big muscles going would burn a lot of calories.
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Grizvok
Dec 8, 2008, 6:21 AM
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Valarc wrote: Grizvok wrote: pataphysicien wrote: I don't know where you got it from that I was talking about 'spot reduction'. the point is that they are large muscle groups and working them out will lead to burning more calories than just working out the upper body. I was clearly referring to her post, so reading that would be a good start before you comment on my question. You specifically said "burn calories down there." What the hell else is there to read? His post made perfect sense to me. He said burn calories down there, not burn fat. It seemed pretty obvious to me he was saying getting big muscles going would burn a lot of calories.
Touche. Sorry, I just didn't want another person to believe in "spot reduction." I have had quite a few people on these forums think it was well known and general knowledge that working your core meant you lost FAT localized around your abs.
My mistake.
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aerili
Dec 8, 2008, 6:47 AM
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Hi pata,
In reply to: but recently I've had some discomfort on the inside of my right knee. I suspect it actually comes from climbing and not running, however as I do both it's really hard to tell.
Since I have no idea exactly where this discomfort is in your knee nor am I a physical therapist (just a little athletic training background), I can only give you general knee strengthening guidelines.
In reply to: now my question to you is: what kind of strength training for the legs would you recommend? of course I don't want to bulk, but it would be great to a) burn some more calories down there and b) to help stabilize the knee more
I find doing high intensity intervals on the bike and the Stepmill work my legs the hardest, i.e. true power endurance training here. I def see no bulk occur, although the legs may feel huge, heavy and pumped directly afterwards, heheh. Make sure to cycle with either shoe cages or footstraps so as to be able to also pull UP with your legs and get the hamstrings working too for muscular balance.
Even though this is still primarily aerobic (with intervals having a mixed quotient of anaerobic component), I have had people find knee stability improve even with these types of things alone. (Usually people with ACL full or partial ruptures.)
Otherwise, to do some lower body strength training (if you REALLY want to stabilize the knee better), I would probably recommend something simple and streamlined. Try stuff like:
* different varieties of lunges (if you're coordinated)
* single leg squats (I usually lightly hold a Smith bar so I don't fall on my butt, and also b/c I have a lot of knee pain and problems, so this allows me to make my one leggeds slightly assisted in the event of some discomfort at first--but super strong athletes often do them off plyo boxes while counterbalancing with front arm raises using dumbbells)
* single leg squats with body weight leaning forward (hold a plate or dumbbell in the opposite hand from foot you're on, keep your spine aligned, and expect your butt to feel it too)
* Calve raises (often a part of most PTs' knee rehab protocols)
* Stiff legged deadlifts (please find info to make sure you do these right or they could hurt you)
* I often do a less-intense version of stiffed legged deadlifts on one leg only (just lift the other foot off the ground by bending your knee and holding it): use about the half the weight or less you would on regular stiff leggeds--the only caveat is you really need fairly good low back and hamstring flexibility for this)
* A guaranteed no-bulk exercise that I have started loving for hamstrings, hips, and lower leg is, hmm, it's hard to describe and looks weird when you do it, but who cares. World class athletes do this exercise. Grab a relatively light dumbbell to start and hold in the hand opposite from the leg you're going to be standing on. Imagine your body as a plank: as your head and torso move down, your other leg comes up. Go until you feel like you're about parallel to the floor with head and foot (you won't be, but it should feel like it). Then go back to an upright position but don't put your foot down between repeats. You should feel the burn the worst in your ankle and foot, but the next day you should hopefully suddenly feel hamstring soreness and tweaks you didn't feel before.
Now. How much weight should you use? Well. I don't know. You can try two tactics or switch between them: try standard-tending-toward-endurance reps (like anywhere from 10-15), especially if your knee bugs. Also try fairly heavy reps, like 7-8ish or less if it doesn't hurt you. (Except the one legged stuff I rarely go super heavy on, but I have joint problems most don't.)
See if you can work this type of stuff into your activities 2x per week. I doubt it will make you bulk.
Oh, warm up thoroughly before certain things, esp. with knee pain. I often find that a football-type warm up works best for my knees: jogging forwards, backwards, side shuffles and cariocas. Unless you do it after a run, then you should be good to go.
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pataphysicien
Dec 8, 2008, 6:58 AM
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^^thanks a lot, I'll experiment with that. and forget that pm 
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aerili
Dec 8, 2008, 7:01 AM
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theguy wrote: Are you an Arthur Jones adherent? You may wish to mention that there are other protocols such as Fartlek and Tabata...
No. My intervals refer to cardiovascular training, not resistance training.
Fartleks are fine, just more unstructured and usually suited for outdoor activities. Tabatas are fine too, but I'm trying to target a range of aerobic/anaerobic mix which I feel is most conducive to approaching and climbing (or at least the climbing and other activities I do), you see, and by doing 30 sec-2 min intervals I feel it taps into a better range of heart-lung function than just a standard 20 seconds over and over.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Dec 13, 2008, 10:28 PM
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Valarc wrote: curtis_g wrote: bbowers wrote: What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? Grits. Two bowls a day. I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty.
And that is precisely why you will loose weight.
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Maddhatter
Dec 13, 2008, 11:30 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Valarc wrote: curtis_g wrote: bbowers wrote: What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? Grits. Two bowls a day. I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty. And that is precisely why you will loose weight.
When I do eat grits I use as much sugar as grits.
With that much sugar there not 1/2 bad.
But then again, I kinda like my beer gut.
People ate huge amounts of fatty foods every day for thousands of years and stayed in shape. It's about getting out and working off more then you eat. Pretty simple. I have yet to see any diet work well in the long run and I have yet to see working out not help.
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angry
Dec 14, 2008, 12:28 AM
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I've been on the no fat, no carb, no protein diet. It's working.
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scotchie
Dec 14, 2008, 5:19 AM
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Sounds like it would work, but then I got hungry, so I had a cheeseburger and some fries while I was thinking about it. And beer. And ice cream. And candy.
So, um, back to the topic. Does anyone have any idea how I could lose my gut and get a rock-hard sixpack?
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waterman
Dec 14, 2008, 6:27 AM
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Alright, I can see some of you guys are really struggling with this so I am going to let you in on my premium ab building/wt loss plan.
Step1: go back to school, the more expensive and time consuming the better. I recommend medical school so you'll only have enough money for one meal a day, but it’s ok b/c you're so busy spending 16 hour days at school so you'll forget you're dangerously deprived of the basic needs like food, sleep and personal hygiene (ok I still have time to take showers but their next on the chopping block).
Step 2: after two months of not climbing realize you have become ridiculously out of shape (unless twig like is a shape - remember no food = no fat), and get motivated.
Step 3: Start a routine of 1000 pushups and sit ups (vary your style) a day, followed by an extra 300 declined pushups and as many door frame pull-ups as you can muster without blowing a pulley.
Guaranteed results or your money back.
Seriously, though its a simple equation... calories in -calories out = stored energy. Push the equation to the negative side (eat fewer calories or work harder) and you loose wt. Its important to note though that it's not about the amount you eat but rather what you eat. I have people keep a diary of what they eat over the period of a month, adding up their total calorie intake each day. Most are surprised just how fast snacking and fast food on the go adds up, and it’s all nutrient deficient so you're body will still want food (which is not an excuse to eat more).
Check out some health food sites/books, run if you can, do crunches (not sit ups which work the psoas more than the abs) and do pikes (laying flat and lifting your straight legs up and down) and you'll see results.
Another interesting note: It will take about 2 weeks to see any gain in strength from exercise, but it will all be from increased motor unit recruitment (increased neural stimulation). It will take 1 to two months of solid work to start building mass, but once it starts it builds very rapidly.
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Senate156
Dec 14, 2008, 9:21 AM
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abs are built in the kitchen not in the gym or out on the rocks. There are several nutrition books i could point you too that really helped me if you interested. ...Note: this doesn't mean that by just changing your diet you are going to develop an incredible set of abs, training is still essential, but not nearly as essential as eating right.
For me the best Ab developing exercises are weighted crunches, climbing roof's and steep overhangs. I have a great set of abs and I never really did high volume Ab work-outs, just hard and heavy like every other muscle group. However, make sure you allow a day of rest between hard ab sessions and climbing again.
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churningindawake
Dec 14, 2008, 4:05 PM
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Drink lots of water and that will help the forearm pump.
Do lots of site-ups and pull ups.
Traverse for long amounts of time.
Do endurance days at the gym. Pick a route and do 4 laps in a row, go to a different route after your partner climbs, and do the same. Do this for 4 different routes.
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Sin
Dec 16, 2008, 5:51 AM
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A six pack is made in the kitchen.
Learn to eat correctly, with the appropriate amount of calories.
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scotchie
Dec 16, 2008, 5:58 AM
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You're not old enough to have a gut to get rid of!!!
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churningindawake
Dec 17, 2008, 12:04 AM
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scotchie wrote: You're not old enough to have a gut to get rid of!!!
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kane_schutzman
Dec 17, 2008, 4:32 AM
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I second doing intervals in the pool and on the track. When you do your pullups instead of dead legs, when your going up lift them. That other fucking lab coat scientest guy in this thread knows what he is talking about. Listen. I usually opt for a well balanced diet. Don't deprice yourself.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Dec 17, 2008, 5:05 AM
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kane_schutzman wrote: I second doing intervals in the pool and on the track. When you do your pullups instead of dead legs, when your going up lift them. That other fucking lab coat scientest guy in this thread knows what he is talking about. Listen. I usually opt for a well balanced diet. Don't deprice yourself.
Despite all off the well intentioned advice here there is only one proven way to get rid of some of your gut. Surgery.
Your small/large intestines don't change size no matter how much you exercise. Only a surgeon can cut some out.
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pro_alien
Dec 18, 2008, 9:25 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Despite all off the well intentioned advice here there is only one proven way to get rid of some of your gut. Surgery. Your small/large intestines don't change size no matter how much you exercise. Only a surgeon can cut some out.
For the slightly less desperate, may I suggest an enema ?
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