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boardom
Nov 8, 2002, 4:07 AM
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Several years ago I was envovled in a fatal backcountry rockclimbing accident that left a buddy dead and myself stranded on a ledge for over 36 hours. It took me a while to "get over it." Two summers ago, I took a 60' on the N. Face of the Grand Teton. Since then, I haven't been able to lead much. . . . I don't need to be the r-rated climber i was 8 years ago, but now I look at a 5.8 and say, "boy. . . I'm not sure about this one." How do I get confidence back. . . or don't I?
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deafclimber
Nov 8, 2002, 4:18 PM
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i am sorry about ur buddy. it s really tough. u can try to climb on very easy route like 5.8 or less for a while to build urself more comforty. just take ur time...
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lynne
Nov 8, 2002, 4:24 PM
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how awful. I'm sorry about your friend.
I'm impressed that you are back to climbing at all, to be honest. You are braver than I would be. Since it's supposed to be fun, there is no sense in doing anything that makes you uncomfortable. Climb what you are confident climbing, always following if need be. There's no shame in that. I think the numbers chasing is BS anyway so don't let other people's ideas of what climbing should be influence what you chose to get out of it.
Be safe.
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trillium
Nov 8, 2002, 4:35 PM
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I obviously don't know the circumstances of the two accidents you mentioned. Was the problem gear placement, belayer trouble, a feak accident?
What about hiring a guide to work with you? I mean a guide who is patient and really knows what he's doing, to critique, encourage... I think you can get beyond it. After all, people get beyond abuse, alchololism, losing family members etc.
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micronut
Nov 8, 2002, 4:43 PM
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I have always said that if I were ever involved in something like that, losing a buddy, then I would just quit. But don't do that.
I lost a great friend in an avlanche in the winter of '95. I wasn't with him, but the loss hurt. I continued to pursue back country powder, in a safe manner, to honnor his memory as a thoughtful, cautious wilderness traveler.
So, my advice, climb well protected routes that are fun and place a bit more gear. We are soft bags of water, basicially, and rocks are very hard.
Sorry about the loss. I'm sure the experience has taught you more than you could ever learn in any classroom.
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petsfed
Nov 8, 2002, 5:38 PM
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The first step is rationalization. Realize that your friend understood the risks, accepted them, and continued despite them. Second, realize that climbing is dangerous only to those who fail to respect the fact that people die in the mountains all the time. Last, but not least, ease back into. The death you experienced is a lot closer to you than the one I experienced, but the technique is the same. Just remember, there is no better tribute to a friend than to continue climbing in light of their death. By the same token, there is no worse insult than to climb recklessly because of their death.
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hawthorne5630
Nov 15, 2002, 4:54 PM
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Boardom,
That's awful. Sounds like the What's my Line Accident in Arizona, is it?
It seems that most accidents occur on a seemingly trivial part of the climb, like the rappel or an easy pitch. Because of this I think a climber's best defense against injuries/fatalities is their concentration. When there is a lapse in concentration then there are accidents. This is why there are not many fatalities on hard (A5) aid climbs.
If you ever read the AAC's annual accident report you will find that most accidents occur on alpine climbs where there are uncontrollable factors that can cause problems. The fact is that rock climbing, on good rock, is very safe. You need to trust in your ability and concentrate on the task at hand.
I think the only thing we can do is use these horrific experiences to be safer climbers. I don't see anything wrong in never wanting to lead again, especially after an experience like that. If I continued climbing I would, however, prefer leading over following because I would be more in control.
Hope this helps,
Mark
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boardom
Nov 15, 2002, 5:21 PM
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Yah, the What's my Line accident. That's it.
Thanks everybody for your comments.
Bruce
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wv5ten
Nov 15, 2002, 5:31 PM
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my friend ben took a 50 footer about a year ago, and it took my friend andrew (who was with him) a few months to get a handle on things, and it wasn't even fatal.
With everything, it takes time brother. I pray you find solace sooner than later however. Good luck.
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dannymccracken
Nov 15, 2002, 9:18 PM
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Bruce,
Have you thought about talking with a counseler or other mental health professional? Dealing with such a loss is a very traumatic experience. A professional may be able to offere insights or guidance to help you shorten the path of the pain.
Danny
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wlderdude
Nov 15, 2002, 9:36 PM
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I am impressed that you can still climb. If it were me,I would sell my gear and take up another sport. You are a stonger man than I.
If you know anyone who has survived combat, they might have some advice for you. Vietnam vets have had to deal with problems of loosing friends and having to keep going. They might have some coping strategies. Just an idea.
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jer
Nov 15, 2002, 9:55 PM
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Bruce, I am so happy to have finally found you!
I sent you a PM(private message) and an email to let you know how my world is going.
A note to others- I climbed with "boardom" on the same route his friend died on a scant 3 months later. Bruce brought up a memorial for his friend and it was a very special moment...it was also the FIRST time I had climbed with Bruce. He is a very strong AND sensitive individual...
Bruce- my best advice to you- is to get out on the rock with old friends...and NEW friends.
All of the old crew still climbs- Al and I still meet up every 6 months for some sort of adventure. I would LOVE to see you, whether you climb or not!
Write me back and let's hook up!
Jer
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punk
Nov 15, 2002, 11:27 PM
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I know I have been there but with me the consequences of MY fall still there I tore 5 ligaments in my left knee and it took over a year to get the full range of motion however prior to the injury I was solid 10 Gunks leader and I didn’t mind runouts (funny I have slipped on 5.7 that I have led 12 times before and the length of the fall was 8 feet max…”Drunkards delight” if u know it ) a year later a 5.6 will give me the heebees
So I have forced myself to climb as much as I could and do any kind of climbing just to fight the fear …today Im back to it leading 5.8 and looking to go up 9’s too
If u like climbing u cant let the fear rule u
U will have to reintroduce yourself to the rock and learn to lead all over again but the second time around its like Amnesia u will catch yourself saying “this is déjà vu …I know this” and before not too long u will improve…it is just getting out there and doing it
Neri
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coclimber26
Dec 1, 2002, 3:06 PM
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That happened to my buddy after taking a huge whipper and he started out again by bouldering. It seemed to work for him..he is back in the saddle again.
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erdeneruc
Dec 2, 2002, 5:59 AM
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Bruce:
I lost my partner this September in a climbing accident. I had a great deal of responsibility to make sure that correct information was available, and to work through the aftermath of the accident. There simply was no time to climb, nor would I have had the desire for it.
Since then, I found that remaining involved with the climbing community and to get involved with teaching climbing worked well for me. I was able to find my joy again, and to feed off the enthusiasm of the beginners. I realized that I had more friends, and that I had touched more lives in my teaching than was obvious. It is amazing what karma can be generated from goodwill.
Play safe, trust your pro. Trust your partner. You have to be rational and work on your pro religiously to convince yourself that your pro is good. Work on your "what if" scenarios constantly - you have to turn this fear into the life saver that it is: "what if I fall here?" is a question that can stop you from continuing, or it can lead you to take proper action to protect yourself.
Remember the trust and use the "what if" scenarios. RAISE YOUR AWARENESS so you can ask the right what-if's - that will only come with experience.
In addition: remember that your level of fitness will decrease with time. Eight years is a long time. Be kind to yourself as you get back into physical shape!
I am convinced that you will climb just fine with time. At any age and at any level of fitness we will find climbs that will challenge us. That is the beauty of climbing unlike other sports. We are not competing for numbers with anyone else.
So I say whole heartedly: "WELCOME BACK"
Erden.
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krustyklimber
Dec 2, 2002, 6:55 AM
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Erden,
You are genuinely good people!
You have the uttmost of my repect.
Jeff
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duskerhu
Dec 2, 2002, 7:01 AM
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Erden was friend and climbing partner to Goran Kropp...
Condolences Erden and Bruce... Very sound advice!
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
duskerhu
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roach
Dec 2, 2002, 7:38 AM
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The answer you're looking for can't be supplied by anyone else.
Aside from being a climber, for the last 4 years I've been a motorcycle mechanic and racer (road racing).
In Sept 2001, I lost a customer and a friend to the sport. In June of this year, another friend ended up paralized from the neck down.
Personally, I've sustained a number of injuries ranging from dislocations and sprains, to a severe head injury at Road Atlanta in 2000, and in July of this year I took a short flight at about 70mph that left me with a shattered radius in my left arm (8" of steel + 5 screws), a broken foot, a bruised back, and a bruised neck.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to what is important to you, in your life, and what risks you are willing to take.
I still race. Why? Because that's what makes me feel alive. I try and learn from my mistakes, and not repeat them.
You can just as easily get hurt and/or killed driving to the grocery store by a drunk driver... but we all still go to the grocery store
- Brian Roach
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