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coclimber26
Dec 13, 2002, 1:51 AM
Post #26 of 37
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This is a good topic and one of my pet peves. In my opinion if you are going to rock climb in any environment you should have mastered self/buddy rescue techniques and advanced trauma. If you are climbing multi-pitch you should know how to accurately predict weather. To many climbing accidents are from neglegent climbers.....take a class.
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Alphaboth
Mar 25, 2009, 11:01 PM
Post #27 of 37
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Belay escape is good to know, but I think you should take a poll to see if climbers know what to do beyond that should the circumstance in mind. Speaking of which, what is the most common circumstance you would find yourself in where u had to use that, i've been running though senarios to try and figure this out
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climbxclimb
Mar 25, 2009, 11:18 PM
Post #28 of 37
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I took a self rescue 2 days class last year after studying a book and not understanding so much...
I practice it every once in while, and I have almost everything in my head...the only think I struggle with is the counter balance rappel, a very complicated and dangerous procedure, to get down to your immobilized partner and carry on with him to the next point.
I have to say though, that very few people I climb with have any idea how to perform any self rescue procedure'
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ACJ
Mar 25, 2009, 11:45 PM
Post #29 of 37
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Yes I can do a belay escape and I do them quite frequently. I don't however use them during self rescue. I would rather remain in the system to perform a rescue instead of leaving it to get help. Leaving the belay to get someone else to help doesn't sound like self rescue to me. It is however a nifty skill, when someone is dogging on a route for a long time a belay transfer is great to know...
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Alpine07
Mar 26, 2009, 12:11 AM
Post #30 of 37
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+1 Very good article.
(This post was edited by Alpine07 on Mar 26, 2009, 12:12 AM)
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Alpine07
Mar 26, 2009, 12:16 AM
Post #31 of 37
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ACJ wrote: Yes I can do a belay escape and I do them quite frequently. I don't however use them during self rescue. I would rather remain in the system to perform a rescue instead of leaving it to get help. Leaving the belay to get someone else to help doesn't sound like self rescue to me. It is however a nifty skill, when someone is dogging on a route for a long time a belay transfer is great to know...
There are a good number of instances where you would have to escape the belay in order to self rescue. It is essential, and definitely more than a "nifty skill."
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clintcummins
Mar 26, 2009, 12:18 AM
Post #32 of 37
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I learned it a few years ago, and I have taught it. But I have never had to use it in 38+ years of climbing.
I feel that prusking or any other method of ascending the rope is a self-rescue skill which is much more likely to be used than the belay escape. So that is what I emphasize in the self-rescue course.
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acorneau
Mar 26, 2009, 12:38 AM
Post #33 of 37
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Digging up a 7 year old thread.... nice.
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rockgirlCO
Mar 26, 2009, 4:04 AM
Post #34 of 37
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A couple of years ago I caught a leader fall. The leader said: if I'd fallen a couple of more inches I probably would have broken an ankle.
That comment gnawed at me for a couple of days. I thought: And I would have to rescue you. But what would I do?
I knew I had to escape the belay but didn't know how. That gnawing feeling caused me to call a guide and set up a series of 2 classes on self-rescue for me and my climbing friends. I got a lot out of the classes and bolstered my new knowledge with the red Mountaineers book on self-rescue. It had photos to help me remember what I'd learned as well as show additional techniques. (The thing I feel very vague about is pulley systems...) This book also has a bunch of different scenarios in the back that can be studied, since the variables a situation you could find yourself in are infinite.
Still I think a huge problem is the lack of practice. The knowledge is getting murkier in my memory. Of course we don't want to have to use the knowledge in a real situation, but be prepared in case something does come up. So practice, especially with your partners!
Here's a link I found helpful for learning the mule:
http://www.animatedknots.com/...ww.animatedknots.com
For anyone reading this in Colorado: Craig Luebben teaches self-rescue classes via the Boulder Rock Club and Rockn and Jamn gyms.
(This post was edited by rockgirlCO on Mar 26, 2009, 4:06 AM)
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ACJ
Mar 26, 2009, 5:26 PM
Post #35 of 37
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Sure there are instances when you might use it. But I wouldn't use it hardly at all in a rescue. There are other techniques that I prefer and am skilled at using and know are superior to the belay escape. I just think it gets more credit for amazing self rescue skill then it really deserves. Thats all.
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james481
Mar 26, 2009, 9:53 PM
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voltzwgn wrote: so now I tied a prussik to the weight bearing rope, between the belay device and the fallen climber. I've tied the prussik into the anchor station set to take upward pull. Now I untie the mule knot, and then slowly let out rope through the belay device until the prussik catches and is now holding the weight of the fallen climber. Now I finally escape the belay and go for help
This is incorrect. If you simply run a prussik back to the anchor, you have escaped the belay, but have made a critical error. The lead line would now be fixed, with no possibility of resuming the belay unless the line can be unweighted. A better solution is: After tying the prussik to the main line using a cordalette, tie a MMO (munter mule overhand) onto a HMS biner with the other end, and secure that to the anchor. Then, release rope through your belay device until the PMMO (prussik munter mule overhand) hitch is bearing the load. Then, tie the lead line into a MMO on the master point of the anchor. Thus, if need be, you can slowly release the PMMO until the MMO tied in the lead line is supporting the load. Then if you need to belay or lower that line while still weighted, you can simply undo the overhand and mule, and lower using the munter.
Edited To Add: Holy thread resurrection, Batman! 7 years old!
(This post was edited by james481 on Mar 26, 2009, 9:55 PM)
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bill413
Mar 27, 2009, 1:58 AM
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james481 wrote: Holy thread resurrection, Batman! 7 years old!
Seriously, I think the most important thing in this is to, at EACH STEP ask yourself two questions:
1) Am I Safe?
2) Is My Partner Safe?
These will, hopefully, keep you from doing stupid things like escaping the belay while you are unanchored; leaving your partner hanging from a mere friction knot, etc.
Also, it's worth paying attention to the details - will I be able to get back into the system & lower/raise/belay my partner?
Again:
1) Am I Safe?
2) Is My Partner Safe?
I find that when I'm working through a rescue scenario, thinking about these things helps make me more calmly assess each step that I am doing.
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