|
desertwanderer81
Jul 1, 2009, 11:13 PM
Post #26 of 58
(3432 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 5, 2007
Posts: 2272
|
surfergirl wrote: i just looked up z-clipping and i can't see how that is even remotely possible! to do that you would have to be clipping one bolt when you haven't even climbed past the last bolt, right?? seems like the bolts would have to be REALLY close together!
Look at it this way, if you reach your hand down, you can pick up the rope around your knees. Then you clip as far as you can above your head. That's about 6' spacing. So if the bolt at 6', you can definately z-clip.
All it takes is someone not thinking about what they're doing, being a little nervous while leading and just grabbing for whatever they can.
To avoid this, I always grab the rope at my knot and then slide my hand down to get slack to clip from.
So yes, the bolts do have to be close together, but it doesn't even have to be that rediculously close.
|
|
|
|
|
desertwanderer81
Jul 1, 2009, 11:36 PM
Post #27 of 58
(3425 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 5, 2007
Posts: 2272
|
WordsVerbatim wrote: dingus wrote: WordsVerbatim wrote: I know I've still got quite a bit to learn. I need to get some books on sport climbing. As of now, I've only relied on Google and this forums search function. Ah, I shoulda spoted the troll earlier. Cheers DMT I'm not a troll. :( I've climbed before, and often. However, considering I can't climb at the moment, reading up on climbing is really my only option. I feel offended. I would NEVER rely on books alone to learn about sport climbing (or climbing in general). But if I can use it to gather tidbits of information while I'm not able to climb, I will. Would I say, "Oh, I've read 2 books on sport climbing, wanna go outside tomorrow so I can lead?" Hell no. It's just that I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight. Please give me a break. :/ I've seen people climb a sport route and trad, but I'm not an expert, I'll give you that.
ha, don't pay any heed to DMT. He's just a sour old man.
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 1, 2009, 11:50 PM
Post #28 of 58
(3416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
seatbeltpants wrote: WordsVerbatim wrote: I'm not a troll. :( I've climbed before, and often. However, considering I can't climb at the moment, reading up on climbing is really my only option. I feel offended. I would NEVER rely on books alone to learn about sport climbing (or climbing in general). I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight. Please give me a break. :/ I've seen people climb a sport route and trad, but I'm not an expert, I'll give you that. i've got to say that i learned a fair bit of what i know from reading books and the stuff posted here. learning from an experienced climbing buddy is great, but in my 18 months of climbing i've been given terrible, potentially dangerous advice several times by people who i'd have expected to know better. the only reason i knew it was bad advice is that i'd read enough to recognise it as such. learning from books alone isn't ideal, but learning from "experienced climbers" of unknown competency isn't ideal either, imho. and often the only way to know whether your teacher is competent is to know enough independently of what they've taught you to make that call. hell, there's a thread here that i was just reading where a guide was posting advice i wouldn't follow. steve
I know what you mean. I'm still going to continue reading. I don't expect it to be a substitute for the real thing, but, at the same time, I refuse to sit here while NOT climbing, only to continue not learning anything at all. Plus, I like to learn so that, as you said, if someone says something that isn't correct, I will be able to spot it.
I don't really see the harm in reading a bit so long as you don't expect to be an expert climber right after doing so. (As in, trying to climb something that is way above your actual skill level simply because you read a book on technique.)
(This post was edited by WordsVerbatim on Jul 1, 2009, 11:54 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
dhorgan
Jul 2, 2009, 12:07 AM
Post #29 of 58
(3402 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2007
Posts: 77
|
surfergirl wrote: i just looked up z-clipping and i can't see how that is even remotely possible! to do that you would have to be clipping one bolt when you haven't even climbed past the last bolt, right?? seems like the bolts would have to be REALLY close together!
|
|
|
|
|
Becknology
Jul 2, 2009, 2:33 AM
Post #30 of 58
(3389 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 44
|
WordsVerbatim wrote: ...It's just that I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight...
Where are you?
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 3:04 AM
Post #31 of 58
(3384 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
Becknology wrote: WordsVerbatim wrote: ...It's just that I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight... Where are you?
Mobile, Alabama. 
We have quite a few beaches, but no rocks unfortunately. Anything remotely climb-worthy is at least 2-4 hours away, and getting there without a car proves difficult. One of the local universities should be getting a climbing wall soon though, so there is hope still! (The university says the recreation center will open around Thanksgiving, but I can't be sure. At least I'll be able to climb when I'm home over Christmas holliday.)
(This post was edited by WordsVerbatim on Jul 2, 2009, 3:06 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
seatbeltpants
Jul 2, 2009, 3:20 AM
Post #32 of 58
(3371 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 581
|
ah, that sucks. any chance of some buildering? have a wander around town and you might strike it lucky, find a few structures worth playing around on...
steve
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 5:07 AM
Post #33 of 58
(3365 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
seatbeltpants wrote: ah, that sucks. any chance of some buildering? have a wander around town and you might strike it lucky, find a few structures worth playing around on... steve
I have considered it, though I'm not sure if there are any buildings in Mobile that are even worth considering. I'd have to scour the place, I imagine.  I have thought about it though, most definitely. The only thing toat worries me is the police... Heh.
|
|
|
|
|
apeman_e
Jul 2, 2009, 4:45 PM
Post #34 of 58
(3336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2008
Posts: 212
|
dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT
Dingus knows best.
|
|
|
|
|
vawallflower
Jul 2, 2009, 5:19 PM
Post #35 of 58
(3328 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2009
Posts: 27
|
Sport Climbing 101 by Chris Lindner was helpful for me. I am transitioning from tr to sport climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
ladyscarlett
Jul 2, 2009, 5:36 PM
Post #36 of 58
(3322 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 376
|
dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT
excuses definitely don't get one leading, but sometimes it takes time to get out of the habit of making them.
As someone who is currently in the process of growing leader balls, it has been hard to re-train my brain to have complete self confidence, especially as it is set on a foundation of no self confidence. I'm learning to get over it and it's a continuing struggle for this wimp to change her stripes...but it's slowly happening - perseverance is my chant these days!
I will say that having a buddy/partner/whatever to say the right thing at the right time is key. Sometimes one needs a tough poke "I'm NOT leading this, YOU are, check the gear is on your harness and you're on belay - take us to the top!" "grow some balls!" or an encouraging "you GOT this" while I wobble on a delicate stance before moving through the crux. My buddy sometimes doesn't understand how key this is, saying the right thing at the right time to get my brain in gear.
Leading is all about you, your head, your body, whatever, but a good peanut gallery can help get one moving up up and away!
I came to the thought that some people are born with balls. Some people have to grow them. I'm in the second group - a seemingly daunting process, but after making something of a lead head breakthrough recently, I'm hoping that I'll have a pair home grown in the Sierras by the time the season is over. I just hope they don't weigh as much as the #5 cam my buddy is lusting over....
have fun out there!
ls
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 6:36 PM
Post #37 of 58
(3297 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
ladyscarlett wrote: dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT In reply to: excuses definitely don't get one leading, but sometimes it takes time to get out of the habit of making them. As someone who is currently in the process of growing leader balls, it has been hard to re-train my brain to have complete self confidence, especially as it is set on a foundation of no self confidence. I'm learning to get over it and it's a continuing struggle for this wimp to change her stripes...but it's slowly happening - perseverance is my chant these days! I will say that having a buddy/partner/whatever to say the right thing at the right time is key. Sometimes one needs a tough poke "I'm NOT leading this, YOU are, check the gear is on your harness and you're on belay - take us to the top!" "grow some balls!" or an encouraging "you GOT this" while I wobble on a delicate stance before moving through the crux. My buddy sometimes doesn't understand how key this is, saying the right thing at the right time to get my brain in gear. Leading is all about you, your head, your body, whatever, but a good peanut gallery can help get one moving up up and away! I came to the thought that some people are born with balls. Some people have to grow them. I'm in the second group - a seemingly daunting process, but after making something of a lead head breakthrough recently, I'm hoping that I'll have a pair home grown in the Sierras by the time the season is over. I just hope they don't weigh as much as the #5 cam my buddy is lusting over.... have fun out there! ls I definitely know what you mean. It took me months to simply grow the balls to TR. I was deathly afraid of heights. I still freak out occasionally, but that's really only when I don't feel like I'm in control. Even then, I've learned to just chill out and breathe. I have one buddy who's really good at telling me like it is. He knows exactly when to push me, and that really helps. When he's being harsh, I'll think things like, "He just said I was a pussy. I'll show him I can do this!" and push through. It's not entirely on my belayer, of course, but the encouragement definitely helps. It helps me calm myself down and think more about what I'm doing when I hear some encouraging words from the onlookers/belayer below. I plan to talk to some of my friends about and get tips, as well. I definitely don't want to lead without being prepared in every possible way. (Mentally, physically, etc.) I plan to look into Sport Climbing 101 in the meantime. Editted to remove my code FAIL.
(This post was edited by WordsVerbatim on Jul 2, 2009, 9:36 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 2, 2009, 9:26 PM
Post #38 of 58
(3274 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
apeman_e wrote: dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT Dingus knows best.
Sarah, I garentee there is something with weekend if not daytrip distance from you!
There always is, in the south. (I made that up)
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 9:39 PM
Post #39 of 58
(3266 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
sungam wrote: apeman_e wrote: dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT Dingus knows best. I concur. Sarah, I garentee there is something with weekend if not daytrip distance from you! There always is, in the south. (I made that up)
I'm sure there is, but when one only has their own two feet, it's more like a week-long trip.  I try to go up to Birmingham at least once a month to get some climbing in. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not. Dunno how July's going to look for that.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 2, 2009, 9:51 PM
Post #40 of 58
(3258 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
WordsVerbatim wrote: sungam wrote: apeman_e wrote: dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT Dingus knows best. I concur. Sarah, I garentee there is something with weekend if not daytrip distance from you! There always is, in the south. (I made that up) I'm sure there is, but when one only has their own two feet, it's more like a week-long trip. I try to go up to Birmingham at least once a month to get some climbing in. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not. Dunno how July's going to look for that.
You're only 4 hours from HP40, it seems.
|
|
|
|
|
AltitudeJunkie
Jul 2, 2009, 10:16 PM
Post #41 of 58
(3249 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 94
|
Lack of confidence right here.
I've had a few partners that were not very encouraging, expressed their lack of confidence in me, and some without even climbing with me just deemed me an unsafe climber.
the combination of these things has kept me away from trad climbing for the last year (ok since the day i started trad climbing).
i love sport climbing though. by next fall i hope to be leading 5.9 trad. lead climbing is my main focus for the next year, primarily trad.
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 10:24 PM
Post #42 of 58
(3245 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
sungam wrote: WordsVerbatim wrote: sungam wrote: apeman_e wrote: dingus wrote: Excuses are what hold non-climbers back. Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope. Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread. If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses. DMT Dingus knows best. I concur. Sarah, I garentee there is something with weekend if not daytrip distance from you! There always is, in the south. (I made that up) I'm sure there is, but when one only has their own two feet, it's more like a week-long trip. I try to go up to Birmingham at least once a month to get some climbing in. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not. Dunno how July's going to look for that. Indeed I also suffer from "no care syndrome". Find someone who likes climbing and has a car, and get them to take you. You're only 4 hours from HP40, it seems.
I know, I know. I have kind of fallen into this "oh, I can't climb right now anyway" attitude. I've of course thought about finding someone, and of worse comes to worse and I just can't handle this anymore, I most certainly will do that. (I'm going climbing in mid-July. Know that for sure. Then school on August 6.)
I've just become far too settled with the idea that I can't climb right now. I really need to get over myself and just do it. Either that or quite my bitchin' until I can.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 2, 2009, 10:34 PM
Post #43 of 58
(3243 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
Words - have you thought about setting up your own climbing wall? Yeah - it's not like real rock, but at least it would be something.
|
|
|
|
|
WordsVerbatim
Jul 2, 2009, 10:45 PM
Post #44 of 58
(3236 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2009
Posts: 133
|
bill413 wrote: Words - have you thought about setting up your own climbing wall? Yeah - it's not like real rock, but at least it would be something.
Yep. Problem: The grandparents are moving out of this house in August when I leave, so I can't do much as far as building a wall is concerned. I've got other options I'm considering. (Rock Rings, for example, which were mentioned to me in another post.)
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 3, 2009, 11:54 PM
Post #45 of 58
(3207 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
WordsVerbatim wrote: bill413 wrote: Words - have you thought about setting up your own climbing wall? Yeah - it's not like real rock, but at least it would be something. Yep. Problem: The grandparents are moving out of this house in August when I leave, so I can't do much as far as building a wall is concerned. I've got other options I'm considering. (Rock Rings, for example, which were mentioned to me in another post.)
I understand about not marring the house. Perhaps a wall outside? A tree house?
|
|
|
|
|
Becknology
Jul 5, 2009, 2:15 AM
Post #46 of 58
(3185 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 44
|
WordsVerbatim, In the end, when you reach the anchor bolts, and it’s cold or raining, and your a hundred feet off the deck…. You will realize that the world has no books, no forums, no friends, no guides (not usually anyway) and it’s all up to you and your previous use of Personal responsibility.
Have you tried cleaning yet? Tried it hanging only a few feet off the ground?
If you haven’t, set up a few fake bolts in your garage and hang there a while. What would you want to do to be certain you where safe to go off belay? How safe? How Redundant? Ask a thousand what if’s and try to cover all your bases. What happens if I drop the rope while off belay? Can I prevent this? What if I rappel and one length of rope doesn’t reach the ground? What if I don’t realize it? Would I fall off? How could I prevent this? Ask yourself a MILLIION WHAT IF’s, and hang there a while.
When you think you have an answer, do it several times. THEN go seek the answers. If you already think you have the answers, go hang a while and test everything your reading or hearing. You will find that your questions are logical and common, and your will discover why certain subject are always covered in every climbing book.
If you don’t apply your own logic and understanding… and DO IT… it’s going to be easy to doubt all advice. Even if a world famous climber taught you personally, when you reach the top of a monster cliff… your guts gonna know that your acting in blind faith, like a robot. You should know why your doing what your doing.
If you hang there, you will figure it out. Even if you don’t, when someone does show you the answer, you will be in a position to smell the truth from a lie. Even if you don’t smell the lie, if you pay attention to books, or watch other climbers…you will see a discrepancy. But you get ZERO of these advantages if you don’t try it on your own. You get NOTHING if you don’t take personal responsibility.
IMHO, Being Personal Responsible covers a little more work than merely finding the right answers in a book or forum. Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide) your confidence will always lack. And for as solid as you may LOOK, you may never feel this confidence yourself. What is worse, what other may perceive as solid ability, might merely be robot like mindlessness. Lots of action, but no real brains. Not Good!
THINK!! There is no dishonor in earning your knowledge for yourself! It might take a little longer, you might hang from your garage rafters for months, but the answers and knowledge will be YOURS!
All that said. Now that you have anchor points in your garage. Practice escaping a belay, or a million other rescue techniques. You may not have anything to climb, but you certainly have ample opportunity to learn, welcome to Personal Responsibility.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jul 5, 2009, 3:16 AM
Post #47 of 58
(3178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
vawallflower wrote: Sport Climbing 101 by Chris Lindner was helpful for me. I am transitioning from tr to sport climbing.
I dislike that one-draw method of clipping in to the anchors that he espouses.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jul 5, 2009, 3:30 AM
Post #48 of 58
(3175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Becknology wrote: Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide)...
As opposed to an AMGA Top-Rope Site Manager, eh? ;)
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
wiki
Jul 5, 2009, 3:38 AM
Post #49 of 58
(3170 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 243
|
Becknology wrote: WordsVerbatim, In the end, when you reach the anchor bolts, and it’s cold or raining, and your a hundred feet off the deck…. You will realize that the world has no books, no forums, no friends, no guides (not usually anyway) and it’s all up to you and your previous use of Personal responsibility. Have you tried cleaning yet? Tried it hanging only a few feet off the ground? If you haven’t, set up a few fake bolts in your garage and hang there a while. What would you want to do to be certain you where safe to go off belay? How safe? How Redundant? Ask a thousand what if’s and try to cover all your bases. What happens if I drop the rope while off belay? Can I prevent this? What if I rappel and one length of rope doesn’t reach the ground? What if I don’t realize it? Would I fall off? How could I prevent this? Ask yourself a MILLIION WHAT IF’s, and hang there a while. When you think you have an answer, do it several times. THEN go seek the answers. If you already think you have the answers, go hang a while and test everything your reading or hearing. You will find that your questions are logical and common, and your will discover why certain subject are always covered in every climbing book. If you don’t apply your own logic and understanding… and DO IT… it’s going to be easy to doubt all advice. Even if a world famous climber taught you personally, when you reach the top of a monster cliff… your guts gonna know that your acting in blind faith, like a robot. You should know why your doing what your doing. If you hang there, you will figure it out. Even if you don’t, when someone does show you the answer, you will be in a position to smell the truth from a lie. Even if you don’t smell the lie, if you pay attention to books, or watch other climbers…you will see a discrepancy. But you get ZERO of these advantages if you don’t try it on your own. You get NOTHING if you don’t take personal responsibility. IMHO, Being Personal Responsible covers a little more work than merely finding the right answers in a book or forum. Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide) your confidence will always lack. And for as solid as you may LOOK, you may never feel this confidence yourself. What is worse, what other may perceive as solid ability, might merely be robot like mindlessness. Lots of action, but no real brains. Not Good! THINK!! There is no dishonor in earning your knowledge for yourself! It might take a little longer, you might hang from your garage rafters for months, but the answers and knowledge will be YOURS! All that said. Now that you have anchor points in your garage. Practice escaping a belay, or a million other rescue techniques. You may not have anything to climb, but you certainly have ample opportunity to learn, welcome to Personal Responsibility.
1,040,136 points for this post!
Awesome 
|
|
|
|
|
Becknology
Jul 5, 2009, 4:57 AM
Post #50 of 58
(3164 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2009
Posts: 44
|
jt512 wrote: Becknology wrote: Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide)... As opposed to an AMGA Top-Rope Site Manager, eh? ;) Jay
 One day at a time Jay, one day at a time
|
|
|
|
|
|
