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shoo
Nov 17, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #26 of 39
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Edited to note: the post below is a farce. This is all very, very wrong information. In fact, you're probably best off by reading the below information, and doing the opposite. Apparently, the sarcasm was not clear enough. I'll let you decide.
This is very dangerous, since the second is only allowed to fall on the rope 6 times before you have to retire it immediately. Then you have to get the 3rd and 4th ropes out of the pack (which you hopefully didn't forget), and they're always tangled no matter what you do and that sucks.
Instead, you should girth hitch two daisy chains, one for each side of the anchor, directly to the bolt hangars. Be sure to clip the carabiners through two loops on each daisy chain for redundancy, and to try to shorten them as much as possible to maximize the angle between them.
. . .
n00b.
(This post was edited by shoo on Nov 20, 2009, 4:47 AM)
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five
Nov 17, 2009, 5:32 PM
Post #27 of 39
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shoo wrote: This is very dangerous, since the second is only allowed to fall on the rope 6 times before you have to retire it immediately. Then you have to get the 3rd and 4th ropes out of the pack (which you hopefully didn't forget), and they're always tangled no matter what you do and that sucks. Instead, you should girth hitch two daisy chains, one for each side of the anchor, directly to the bolt hangars. Be sure to clip the carabiners through two loops on each daisy chain for redundancy, and to try to shorten them as much as possible to maximize the angle between them. . . . n00b. |
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shoo
Nov 17, 2009, 5:36 PM
Post #28 of 39
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I am assuming you are quoting because the information above is considered the most accurate description of current best practice. Otherwise, you'd be a n00b too.
You wouldn't want to be a n00b, now would you?
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five
Nov 17, 2009, 5:45 PM
Post #29 of 39
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dugl33
Nov 20, 2009, 3:14 AM
Post #30 of 39
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shoo wrote: Instead, you should girth hitch two daisy chains, one for each side of the anchor, directly to the bolt hangars. Be sure to clip the carabiners through two loops on each daisy chain for redundancy, and to try to shorten them as much as possible to maximize the angle between them. . . .
WTF?
Bad idea in so many ways. Those daisy chain pockets fail at around 300 lbs. The only full strength in a daisy is at both ends. You must be on both ends, never just pockets.
Looping the hanger isn't going to kill you most of the time, but it might if you have to catch a factor 2 on this rig.
Daisys are easy to come out of when not clipped properly, and its not that hard to get wrong. Someone post that video for Maxx. (In my opinion the safest way to get it right is to girth hitch to the harness, clip anchor bolt at the very end of the daisy with a locker, adjust for length with a biner in, not around, a pocket, and clip this to the bottom of the locker.)
Given the daisys shortcomings, better to use the rope, slings, or a PAS. Even the big-wallers using daisys are connected to the anchor at at least one bomber spot with the rope.
n o o b ?
edit to add -- see the nice lil' sketches
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/..._Etrier_IS%20WEB.pdf
(This post was edited by dugl33 on Nov 20, 2009, 3:36 AM)
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dugl33
Nov 20, 2009, 3:27 AM
Post #31 of 39
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shoo wrote: ...and try to shorten them as much as possible to maximize the angle between them.
and yet more WTF??
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dugl33
Nov 20, 2009, 3:48 AM
Post #32 of 39
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shoo wrote: This is very dangerous, since the second is only allowed to fall on the rope 6 times before you have to retire it immediately.
and WTF?
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shoo
Nov 20, 2009, 4:45 AM
Post #33 of 39
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Perhaps you're seeing a pattern here. However, I will help make it clearer since it is apparent that I am bad at internet sarcasm. There are two possibilities for having one post with so much wrong and ridiculous information: either the poster must be an absolute idiot, or he/she is being sarcastic.
The above post was intended as a farce, but apparently this is not clear. I am editing the above post to add a disclaimer that the below is sarcastic. If there was humor there, it is now gone.
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altelis
Nov 20, 2009, 5:03 AM
Post #34 of 39
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shoo wrote: Perhaps you're seeing a pattern here. However, I will help make it clearer since it is apparent that I am bad at internet sarcasm. There are two possibilities for having one post with so much wrong and ridiculous information: either the poster must be an absolute idiot, or he/she is being sarcastic. The above post was intended as a farce, but apparently this is not clear. I am editing the above post to add a disclaimer that the below is sarcastic. If there was humor there, it is now gone.
Oh, it was crystal clear. Watching people respond to your post seriously is like listening to people getting their panties in a knot because Vertical Limit doesn't represent real climbing.
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dugl33
Nov 20, 2009, 5:54 AM
Post #35 of 39
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shoo wrote: Perhaps you're seeing a pattern here. However, I will help make it clearer since it is apparent that I am bad at internet sarcasm. There are two possibilities for having one post with so much wrong and ridiculous information: either the poster must be an absolute idiot, or he/she is being sarcastic. The above post was intended as a farce, but apparently this is not clear. I am editing the above post to add a disclaimer that the below is sarcastic. If there was humor there, it is now gone.
Well shit, got me! I'll go un-knot the panties...
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billcoe_
Nov 22, 2009, 5:11 PM
Post #39 of 39
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What Dingus says goes for me Maxx. I use the climbing rope for belay setups as well and it works better than a clusterfu*k-o-lette. However, I personally believe that clipping the anchor as the first piece increases your risk dramatically in most instances. A fall directly onto an anchor piece would be bad Ju-ju and possibly result in total failure of the anchor, while as most climbs have stances on belays, leaving the climber in the equation as a belay piece so that a fall goes right onto the climber, would soften any fall and increase the chance of the anchor not failing.
This is all situational, and might change every pitch depending on what each situation is: for if in fact you are doing a hanging belay, you'd be better with 3 pieces minimum and then why not clip one of them anyway as a fall directly onto your belay loop only increases all kinds of anguish and multiplies the potential issues and difficulties.
As far as the extra loop for the 2nd as he gets ready to transition, it seems like a total waste of time and energy. A long sling can be clipped to a piece and into the 2nd while the rack is managed, and then grabbed and taken on lead with the 2nd. The 2nd is on belay when he gets to the belay stance, and the leader ties a quick backup knot into the rope so his hands are free to help with the rack -that way the 2nd stays on belay and is clipped to a sling (if needed). The knot is then untied in a few seconds and the 2nd becomes the leader. Much faster, easier, less of a clusterf*ck and will break down faster as well.
But I'd climb with your partner, sounds like he is a thinking person and has his stuff together. I suspect that once he saw mine or Dingus's style of belay set up, he'd change to it right quick.
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