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spikeddem
Sep 8, 2010, 2:44 PM
Post #26 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: So now yr arguing to do bunny ears ???
This whole time I've been saying that using only the rope and gear that is already present is the fastest, cheapest, cleanest, and most efficient way.
In reply to: Are you simply arguing fir the sake of arguing lol
I'm arguing for the sake of not spreading shitty advice.
[quoet]its simple
I thought so, too.
In reply to: 1. A sliding x is the most sple to setup and requires only a clove for the rope
We obviously have a fundamental disagreement about whether or not it is easier and faster. Given equal familiarity with both, the rope method is clearly faster and easier and requires less gear.
In reply to: 2. Its a lot neater than using who knows how many biners
Four locking biners for your method versus two quickdraws for using the rope? I'd have to disagree.3. Paryner comes up and just throws on a locker and cloves
Partner arrives at a prepared station, tie's a clove hitch, weights it, and ties a fig 8 on a bight. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
In reply to: 4. You can build a serene anchor with the same materials
Not sure what you're even talking about here.
In reply to: 5. For rappel its safer than simply using a leash and almoat as fast
Off topic.
In reply to: 6. Betwen the 2 of u ... Youll prob have 6 lockers and nearly 5 m of webbing a much better bail kit than just 1 or 4 draws
5 meters of webbing?? What??
In reply to: 7. EVERY climber should have and know how to setup proper anchor
You act like we disagree on this.
In reply to: 8. It deals with most situations ... Uneven anchors ... Weak anchors ... Tree or flake rappels ... Etc...
Are you implying that a 120 cm sling is more versatile than the rope itself?
In reply to: 9.It doesnt weight much more and doesnt cost much more
And only a fraction of the versatility.
In reply to: 10. In an emergency and with an atc guide and 2 extendible slings u can use the material to ascend a rope ... I assume u carry 2 extendibles for those drag situations ANY multi climbs
Except that if I'm building the anchor out of the sling, it won't be available to use on the route...
If you want to keep using your method, that's fine. Just don't go on and on about how it's more versatile than using the rope itself to build the anchor. It's not. However, it is more expensive, more of a clusterfuck, heavier, slower, less versatile, less efficient, and less effective.
I'm just repeating myself now, however. If you come up with something new, rather than just re-stating what you've already (incorrectly) claimed, then I'll respond. Otherwise, I suggest you just re-read my posts and the original method (along with other ways of using just the rope to build an anchor). I'm sure if you give it a chance, you'll see that the rope is vastly superior to the sliding x in the vast majority of cases.
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 2:53 PM
Post #27 of 71
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BOTH ways use the rope ... Ur just using draws instead of a sling
ur draws arent dynamic rope ... Lol
on serious mutipitch sport you want options ... 2 draws dont do that for you and isnt any faster than a sling
theres a reason why thy dont teach u to build even bolted anchors For multi with draws in courses or in books
take. Basic anchor course where you learn how to build actual anchors lol
its a "oh sh!t i forgot my stuff" technique lol
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 8, 2010, 2:56 PM)
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spikeddem
Sep 8, 2010, 3:10 PM
Post #28 of 71
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Sungam, if you're trolling me, I swear to God I'm going to murder you.
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jipstyle
Sep 8, 2010, 5:32 PM
Post #29 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: i think u need to take a basic anchor course .... The only real problem with a sliding x is the extention on trad gear
No, the problem with a sliding-X is extension. If you're so comfortable using bolts, why do you use both? If you're going to use both, why not use them properly?
In reply to: if theres rockfall its WAY more likely to cut a 60 m rope than a 1.2 m sling at the belay
Dead wrong. Emphasis on dead. The rope is less likely to be under tension and may survive rockfall if struck. A sling under tension is easily sliced by the edge of a decently sized rock .. say, the size of your head.
In reply to: not only is a proper anchor setup faster on 2 bolts where there are no chains ... It creates less of a cluster fcuk ... And is more flexible
If a sliding-X is that much faster than, say, equalised cordalettes then you don't know how to set up the second properly. It certainly doesn't create a cluster and is no less flexible than a sliding-x.
They are BOLTS. Multi-directional anchors. How much more flexibility do you need in a system?
In reply to: you can use 2 draws ... But how are you guys going to clip 2 bolts with 4 draws unless the bolt holea are alwaya big enough... Or figure out the sequence of who ties in when with 2 draws
Do you know what a 'powerpoint' is? I'm not talking about a slide show here.
Anchor course indeed.
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 8:02 PM
Post #30 of 71
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Lol ... So yr saying extention is a problem on bolts?
Stupid ... If yr bolts are failing dont sport climb ... If one bolt fails an it extends the other bolt will hold ... If its that week dont sport time
yr trying to tell me that 120 cm of sling is more likely to get cut than 60 m of rope by rockfall ... Or the rope from yr harness to the clove .... Again stupid
a sliding x is super fast and can be pre rigged so all u need to do is cli clipamd clove ... Its also not a cluster fcuk no matter whag size yr party and a recognized anchor system
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jipstyle
Sep 8, 2010, 8:06 PM
Post #31 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: Lol ... So yr saying extention is a problem on bolts?
Extension. And yes, bolts can fail. There is a reason that most crags have rebolting funds.
In reply to: Stupid ... If yr bolts are failing dont sport climb ... If one bolt fails an it extends the other bolt will hold ... If its that week dont sport time
You're calling me stupid and then following it with that drivel? If it is that week, wear a pad and stop posting until your hormones subside.
In reply to: yr trying to tell me that 120 cm of sling is more likely to get cut than 60 m of rope by rockfall ... Or the rope from yr harness to the clove .... Again stupid
I provided a sound argument. You repeated your drivel and threw in some insults. What will you do to continue the discussion? Misspell some swear words? Insult my mom?
In reply to: a sliding x is super fast and can be pre rigged so all u need to do is cli clipamd clove
Do you know what a cordalette is?
In reply to: ... Its also not a cluster fcuk no matter whag size yr party and a recognized anchor system
If you're worried about a cordalette-based anchor either becoming a cluster-fuck or if you think that the size of your party has any bearing on it whatsoever ... stick to sport climbing. Please. When people die, it often impacts access to our crags.
(This post was edited by jipstyle on Sep 8, 2010, 8:08 PM)
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 8:26 PM
Post #32 of 71
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The sliding x distributes the load the best out of ANY anchor system ... It is self equalising ....
If u use draws u had better hope they are exacrtly on the same horizontal plane ... If its even slightly off its not equalized ... You had better use longer draws as well
When in doubt about the stenght of bolts on a belay anchor DONT LEAD OFF it .. its not worth yr life
Build a proper serene anchor if yr really worried instead of using draws
repeat after me .. the anchor must be BOMBER
stupid ... Lol
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redlude97
Sep 8, 2010, 8:31 PM
Post #33 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: Lol ... So yr saying extention is a problem on bolts? Stupid ... If yr bolts are failing dont sport climb ... If one bolt fails an it extends the other bolt will hold ... If its that week dont sport time yr trying to tell me that 120 cm of sling is more likely to get cut than 60 m of rope by rockfall ... Or the rope from yr harness to the clove .... Again stupid a sliding x is super fast and can be pre rigged so all u need to do is cli clipamd clove ... Its also not a cluster fcuk no matter whag size yr party and a recognized anchor system
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redlude97
Sep 8, 2010, 8:33 PM
Post #34 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: The sliding x distributes the load the best out of ANY anchor system ... It is self equalising .... If u use draws u had better hope they are exacrtly on the same horizontal plane ... If its even slightly off its not equalized ... You had better use longer draws as well When in doubt about the stenght of bolts on a belay anchor DONT LEAD OFF it .. its not worth yr life Build a proper serene anchor if yr really worried instead of using draws repeat after me .. the anchor must be BOMBER stupid ... Lol
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 8:50 PM
Post #35 of 71
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Anything is better than using 2 draws on "weak bolts"
the point is you are better off carrying a sling, 3 lockers for yr multipitch anchor material than 2 draws
its cleaner and more flexible
you can premake a sliding x, serene anchor, or whatever you want
and its just as fast
if yr climbing on questionable bolt anchors on a sport route go down .... Quickdraw anchora are the worst option... the angle with draws may well be too wide and unless the bolts are exactly om the same plane u may not be equalized
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spikeddem
Sep 8, 2010, 9:16 PM
Post #36 of 71
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OK. So it's not Sungam trolling, but someone is having fun.
Not a bad troll at all, IMO. Had me taking the bait for sure.
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jipstyle
Sep 8, 2010, 9:23 PM
Post #37 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: The sliding x distributes the load the best out of ANY anchor system ... It is self equalising ....
... until an anchor fails.
In reply to: If u use draws u had better hope they are exacrtly on the same horizontal plane ... If its even slightly off its not equalized ... You had better use longer draws as well
Cordalette. Not draws.
In reply to: When in doubt about the stenght of bolts on a belay anchor DONT LEAD OFF it .. its not worth yr life
Thanks for the pithy wisdom. Not all failed bolts also failed a visual inspection.
In reply to: Build a proper serene anchor if yr really worried instead of using draws
Cordalette.
If there are bolts, odds are quite good that there is no room for gear. If you're talking about building a SRENE anchor using the bolts: cordalette.
In reply to: stupid ... Lol
Illiterate. "lol"
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jipstyle
Sep 8, 2010, 9:24 PM
Post #38 of 71
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spikeddem wrote: OK. So it's not Sungam trolling, but someone is having fun. Not a bad troll at all, IMO. Had me taking the bait for sure.
I hope you're right.
I wouldn't mind being trolled. In fact, I'd prefer to have been trolled to thinking this guy may fall on my head one day.
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 9:29 PM
Post #39 of 71
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It makes no functional difference whether you use a cordelette or long sling in this case
slings are full strength and you dont need to worry about the double fishermans getting untied
cord is fine for this app ... as is a nylon sling
draws are the last resort
if yr both yr bolts fail yr screwed anyways ... If you think a sliding x will pull bolts then i suggest you stop climbing ... Lol
stooopid
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 8, 2010, 9:34 PM)
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jipstyle
Sep 8, 2010, 9:39 PM
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bearbreeder wrote: It makes no functional difference whether you use a cordelette or long sling in this case
It does if the sling is set-up as a sliding X without knots to limit extension.
In reply to: slings are full strength and you dont need to worry about the double fishermans getting untied
If the knot blows, you lose one leg of the anchor and you still don't have to worry about extension.
In 15 years, I've never had a knot blow. You?
In reply to: draws are the last resort
I don't see why you'd use draws at all even if you had nothing but draws on your harness.
In reply to: if yr both yr bolts fail yr screwed anyways ... If you think a sliding x will pull bolts then i suggest you stop climbing
Do you have a vowel phobia?
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 9:52 PM
Post #41 of 71
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never had a double fishermans come untied over time? .... wow u must be special
lol
the extension simply isn't an issue on sport climbing anchor bolts ... if BOTH bolts are that weak maybe you should just free solo ... lol
or are u just trolling now 
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redlude97
Sep 8, 2010, 10:02 PM
Post #42 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: never had a double fishermans come untied over time? .... wow u must be special lol the extension simply isn't an issue on sport climbing anchor bolts ... if BOTH bolts are that weak maybe you should just free solo ... lol or are u just trolling now
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 10:13 PM
Post #43 of 71
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neatness, speed and flexibility
premade X or serene ... clip one, clip other, single clove ... draws you need to make 2 knots ... or use another locker which adds another step
2 hangers only with no chains ... X or serene ... just clip the focal or shelf (for serene) .... for 2 draws you either need to take off 1 knot at a time if yr not swaping leads ... or the partner needs to use 2 more draws through the hangers and create a mess ... or you both carry another locker each for the focal in which case its not any faster
flexibility .... IF the bolts dont inspire confidence and you are fcukang crazy enough to climb ... with a double length sling and 3 lockers you can make a sliding X serene, or, some other funkay anchor if u want
bail options ... need to bail? ... between the 2 of u, u have 6 lockers and 5 m worth of webbing ... more than enough ... instead of 2-4 draws... you can rap off trees and rocks if you go off the rap route by mistake
ascending ... you can ascend a rope with the slings kleimheisted if you need
extendibles ... if you really need you can use it as extendible draws if you run out
and you can always go back to using draws if you forget or use up the slings for other purposes
as i ALWAYS said you CAN use draws ... it just isn't the best or good option
but hey ... people can't accept the fact that a premade X is just as fast and more flexible ..
lol
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 8, 2010, 10:16 PM)
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spikeddem
Sep 8, 2010, 11:37 PM
Post #44 of 71
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This has already been discussed. You are incorrect, bearbreeder. I should point out that the main conclusion of the other thread is that there is no one best anchor. It depends, of course, on the situation. That being said, the sliding x fucking blows as an anchor in comparison to most other anchors in terms of speed, efficiency, clusterfuck-edness, unnecessary gear, and safety.
Before you respond to anything I have said or anything else others have said, read through the other thread. Any questions or points you would like to ask or argue were likely already covered in this thread or the other.
I'm done. *exhale*
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bearbreeder
Sep 8, 2010, 11:46 PM
Post #45 of 71
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lol in this case yr using biners not draws ...
the sliding X works and is simple ... and it works as a rappel anchor which i think the original poster asked about
and the sling and lockers give you more options if you run into issues and ALLLOWS YOU TO USE THE FULL LENGTH OF THE ROPE if you need
there is nothing wrong with the diagram you showed but it IS SLOWER you need to make 3 knots vs the single clove hitch for the sliding X
almost anyone can set up the sliding X one handed...good luck doing that with the fig 8 on yr setup
i guess most other anchors blow in terms of speed, CF, and gear ... since the serene needs EXACTLY the same gear ...
i use that setup on TRAD anchors for 3 pieces when i forget the anchor material and everyone should know it ... but on bolts the dynamic nature aint needed ... the problem is can you each the top clove easily, the knot is farther away since its not at the focal
john long in his 2nd edition doesnt seem to have any issues with the X on sport climbing bolts ... maybe u know bettah than him ... hmmm
and i thought u werent replying ;)
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 9, 2010, 12:29 AM)
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davidnn5
Sep 9, 2010, 9:24 AM
Post #46 of 71
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No one who repeatedly and egregiously uses ellipses and "yr" is worth listening to. If people want to present themselves as intelligent, they can take the extra 14 seconds to write words in full.
There was some interesting data some time ago in the lab proving the legendary sliding X often "sticks" and therefore doesn't provide the equalisation some argue it does. However in this case, where a 13 year old is arguing with others about how to climb, one has to bow to the inevitability of the young always knowing more than the elderly, and having iteratively worse grammar.
By the same token, we're all getting 'stronger' and there is no grade creep. !
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bearbreeder
Sep 9, 2010, 11:04 AM
Post #47 of 71
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testing of sliding shows absolute difference transmitted to each arm in a factor 1 fall was very close to 0 ...sliding X equalizes much better and consistently ... pg 186
with solid 2 bolt anchors setup (sliding x) setup is both quick and easy ... pg 160
climbing anchors john long 2nd ed ... guess he's a 13 yr old too 
sliding X is simple, fast, flexible, extention is a non issue on bomber bolts, allows you to lead in blocks, allows use of the full rope, lets u set up rap anchors if needed and allows you to adjust the tie ine length
and if you dont like it the same materials allow you to make a serene anchor ...
i really dont know how youll lead in blocks tying in with the rope anchor unless u untie ... not the best thing to do for time ... lol
YR welcome
(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Sep 9, 2010, 11:08 AM)
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dingus
Sep 9, 2010, 12:44 PM
Post #48 of 71
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What a worthless thread.
DMT
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caughtinside
Sep 9, 2010, 6:02 PM
Post #49 of 71
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Lot of wanking about two bolt anchors here.
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MS1
Sep 9, 2010, 7:10 PM
Post #50 of 71
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bearbreeder wrote: testing of sliding shows absolute difference transmitted to each arm in a factor 1 fall was very close to 0 ...sliding X equalizes much better and consistently ... pg 186 with solid 2 bolt anchors setup (sliding x) setup is both quick and easy ... pg 160 climbing anchors john long 2nd ed ... guess he's a 13 yr old too sliding X is simple, fast, flexible, extention is a non issue on bomber bolts, allows you to lead in blocks, allows use of the full rope, lets u set up rap anchors if needed and allows you to adjust the tie ine length and if you dont like it the same materials allow you to make a serene anchor ... i really dont know how youll lead in blocks tying in with the rope anchor unless u untie ... not the best thing to do for time ... lol YR welcome
You are the least interesting troll this site has seen in some time. Your posts are worthless, long, and unfunny. Seriously, I never thought I would say this, but you are making me appreciate subantz.
Go read some of the classic majid threads and then try again.
ps: If you "lol" one more time, it is good cause for a cock punching.
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