In addition it appears that the Pinkpoint definition below does not include the “after making previous unsuccessful attempts” criteria. Does that mean that a Pinkpoint can only be achieved on your first attempt but a Redpoint can be achieved on any attempt?
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No.

So both need to be on your first attempt or both can be on any attempt?

So both need to be on your first attempt or both can be on any attempt?

psstt.....no one uses the term pinkpoint anymore. Prehung draws are common place in hard sport climbing and do not detract from a redpoint or on sight. The term doesn't exist in trad climbing because anyone that leads on preplaced gear gets ridiculed into submission.

Josh

That makes sense. However, it still isn’t clear if a Redpoint can be achieved on anything other than your first attempt.

The only difference between pinkpoint and redpoint is that the draws are already hung on a pinkpoint - but in both cases there has been at least one unsuccessful attempt, thus the climber has at least some prior knowledge of the moves. Doing something successfully on the first attempt with no prior knowledge is an on-sight.

What beta is, however, is open to debate.

Josh

Thank you. So is there a term for doing a climb without any beta not on your first attempt? Or is doing the climb multiple times considered beta even though no one else has assisted the climber?

Using any of these terms to describe a bouldering comp final doesn't really make sense. The terms denote the style of an ascent, not an event. Why not just call it a "final"?

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Using any of these terms to describe a bouldering comp final doesn't really make sense. The terms denote the style of an ascent, not an event. Why not just call it a "final"?

Does Redpoint apply to bouldering or does it need to strictly be lead climbing like that definition says?

They make perfect sense in the context of a comp. Of the few comps I have been to, before the finals, maximum points were awarded for a flash of a problem, and lower point values awarded for subsequent attempts (redpoint, although the term is not really used in bouldering). For finals, the comps were onsight format, meaning that competitors did not get to see the route until they were to climb it and were not allowed to watch other competitors attempt the route/problem. Finalist only got one shot at the finals route, so they either got the onsight or they didn't get the route at all. Finalist who did not complete the route were placed by how far they got on the route. So the term may not describe an event, but when the competitors are forced to attempt routes "onsight" then I think it is a fair way to describe the competition format.

Do you agree with the wiki definitions for the terms? Do any of them need more clarification to be accurate or more up to date with what is commonly used now?

Thanks, I think the responses have answered my question. I did learn a lot though.

Do you agree with the wiki definitions for the terms? Do any of them need more clarification to be accurate or more up to date with what is commonly used now?

Thanks, I think the responses have answered my question. I did learn a lot though.

Do you agree with the wiki definitions for the terms? Do any of them need more clarification to be accurate or more up to date with what is commonly used now?

a redpoint cannot be achieved on your first attempt. First attempt is either an on-sight (no beta) or a flash (beta).

Josh

Sure you can redpoint a climb on your initial attempt. If you climbed it cleanly then its a red point. Flash is a proper subset of redpoint so if you climbed it with some form of beta (TBD) cleanly the first time then you get to say that you are in that inner circle of the redpoint set. Likewise on-sight is a proper subset of flash - you did it cleanly the first time without any beta (except you can split hairs about the definition of beta - grade? if anyone has ever climbed it? etc.). So then you get to be in the inner inner circle. woo-hoo. Most people will describe what they did in the grandest way possible. So they won't just say they red pointed it if they can say something "better". They could just say they got to the top eventually if they wanted too.

Is correct ^^^

BTW, regarding the term pinkpoint - while it's pretty much gone from sport climbing, on the rare occasions in which I or my partners lead a trad climb on pre-placed gear, we certainly do use the phrase pinkpoint. And the term "pink" is a wonderfully effective signifier for just what a truly macho style you used to get up the climb.

G

a redpoint cannot be achieved on your first attempt. First attempt is either an on-sight (no beta) or a flash (beta).

What beta is, however, is open to debate.

Josh

Let not forget my favorite style.
Hangdog. The first attempt, with falls.

There was a significant accident and a major hub-bub on the GT ledge below Limelight when a trad pinkpoint attempt went bad. Everybody describing the accident used the term "pinkpoint" - so I would say that the concept and understanding of the definition is still pretty wide spread. It's dismissed in the sport world mainly because of the trickle down effect - the big boys (and girls) can't be bothered ( for semi legitimate reasons on cutting edge routes) and every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to emulate them.