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TimeSpiral


Sep 16, 2012, 9:52 AM
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Just bought a lot of gear. How can I inspect for safety?
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Greetings, RC'ers!

I just agreed to purchase this lot of gear. It seems like a great deal. I'm new to the sport (just got back from Kalymnos, Greece).

The seller claims, "Gear was my sons and he is not here with us so we are cleaning up and this equipment is brand new and never used all the rope, and other items used for mounain and ice and alpine climbing."

Do you guys have any tips to help me inspect this gear for safety?

I'm new to the site and the sport, but I look forward to interacting here. Also, I intend to write a trip report about my experience in Kalymnos - it was incredible.

Here are the images of the gear (one is blurry. I didn't take the images):




Also; I don't need some of this gear and will be looking to sell it, like the ice climbing axes and the ice probe. Is RC a decent place to sell gear?

Thanks, everyone!


TradEddie


Sep 16, 2012, 11:21 AM
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First suggestion is to please, please make sure that this gear really belongs to the seller. There are too many stories on every climbing website about gear being stolen and turning up online.

If this was me, and this is simply my opinion, your life could depend on getting this right:

Sell anything I don't need, or don't want.

Unless the ropes/slings were in original unopened bags, and less that 5 years old, I would throw them away or use them for tasks in the garden, slings are inexpensive, and ropes are too critical. If your conscience allows, perhaps sell these on too, but I wouldn't.

Inspect the cams very carefully, all will have a manufacture date code stamped somewhere (see manufacturers websites if needed). If less than five years old, and in 100% perfect visible condition, I would use them, otherwise I would send them to be reslung (see many posts here about reslinging cams). Similarly with the QDs, but while you can buy new dogbones, it's usually almost as expensive as buying complete draws.

Here is what it comes down to: You have no idea how these were stored or used, and your life depends on trusting an unknown previous owner. Not much can happen to metal, but nylon can easily be accidentally damaged by common household chemicals. Is it worth saving a few bucks?

TE


TimeSpiral


Sep 16, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Re: [TradEddie] Just bought a lot of gear. How can I inspect for safety? [In reply to]
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TE,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate hearing from you, and hopefully others. I verified ownership as much as I suppose I could. She said it was her son in law's and he no longer lives with them and was given the okay to sell it (maybe a little suspect?).

The ropes are not unopened, and neither are the slings. The ropes do not look frayed, and the colors are still vibrant. I'm going to inventory everything to see what I have.

I will report back to see if anyone else wants to weigh in.


theextremist04


Sep 16, 2012, 1:08 PM
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As said, used soft goods are always suspect- there are many different ways to damage them with no change in appearance. Hard goods are usually different- if they look okay, they're probably fine. Look for frayed cables on nuts, damage to cams, etc. Remember that the slings on cams count as soft goods.


climbingaggie03


Sep 16, 2012, 1:10 PM
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those hexes and cams look shiny in the pictures, although it looks like the camalots are the pre-c4 model so the slings are automatically several years old. I bootied a cam similar and use it, but it definitely wouldn't hurt to have the cams reslung.

The slings look like some older things and I don't think I'd trust them, same with the quick draws, replacement slings and dog bones are too cheap to trust old slings.

I might be interested in the probe, the ice tools, and is that an ice screw hiding under there? RC.com isn't a bad place to sell stuff, but I see more stuff changing hands at mountainject.com or there's always craigslist and Ebay


TimeSpiral


Sep 16, 2012, 2:58 PM
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I'm primarily interested in Sport Climbing, so the quick draws, carabiners, ropes, and belay devices are of particular interest to me.

Am I understanding that I should not trust the ropes at all? My thoughts are to get the opinions of RC'ers here and then take the gear to a local rock climbing gym and look over it all with one of the experienced staffers.

When I visually inspect it, some of the quick draws look near-new. But, like you guys have been saying ... soft goods can look better than they are.

So ... Did I buy mostly useless stuff?! Damn!

Oh, and yes ... There are two ice axes, an ice probe, and two ice screws.


(This post was edited by TimeSpiral on Sep 16, 2012, 3:07 PM)


climbingaggie03


Sep 16, 2012, 3:20 PM
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but yeah, I wouldn't trust any of that nylon, ropes, slings, or quick draws. I can't say definitively but that harness may be ok, it looks like it still has the creases in it from being put in a bag in the factory.

In my opinion, the ropes are junk, the slings too, that bluish/denim looking sling is an REI sling and I'm pretty sure they quit making those many years ago. Those DMM Mamba quick draws that have the special quick draw pockets in the biners, look like they are from the late 80's early 90's so I definitely don't trust those slings, and since the carabiners are specialized like that, I don't think that you can replace just the slings, at least not without sending them to the mfg or someone else to re-sling them.

Like theextremist said, nylon is susceptible to damage by all kinds of household chemicals, and there's no real way to know how strong nylon is without testing it to failure, at which point it's not really useful anymore. I think there was a climbing accident/fatality several years ago that involved a rope that was unknowingly weakened by exposure to car battery fumes. The rope broke and the climber died.

I know that you're just getting into climbing and that it can be an expensive proposition. Buying used gear isn't a bad way to save money, but you need to be careful about what you buy and use. metal is usually trust worthy as long as it doesn't show any signs of wear or damage. Ropes and Slings? buy new, there's plenty of sales and bulk discounts out there.

I'd replace those dog bones on those quick draws, I think when I replaced mine, I got 10 for less than 2 bucks a piece so that's very inexpensive piece of mind in my book.


TradEddie


Sep 16, 2012, 5:34 PM
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Re: [TimeSpiral] Just bought a lot of gear. How can I inspect for safety? [In reply to]
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TimeSpiral wrote:
So ... Did I buy mostly useless stuff?! Damn!

Depends on how much you paid whether you got a bad deal or not. Selling the ice and trad gear will easily get you enough to buy everything you'll need for sport climbing. I expect everything except the hexes will be easy to sell.

As noted, that harness looks unused, there will be a date on that which will give you a good idea of how old all that stuff is.

TE


redfox1939


Sep 16, 2012, 8:09 PM
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Your climbing gear takes a beating at the cliff and in the mountains. It wears out. It won’t last forever. Lots of falls when you’re working a hard sport route; belaying your friends every weekend while they top-rope through carabiners; dust and dirt ground into your rope at the base of the cliffs; and regular exposure to sunlight all conspire to wear your gear out. Climbing equipment is manufactured with high-quality stainless steel and aluminum, but regular use gives it a beating. Treat your gear right, retire it when it's worn out, and you’ll live long and prosper.
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DemolitionRed


Sep 17, 2012, 5:23 AM
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Re: [redfox1939] Just bought a lot of gear. How can I inspect for safety? [In reply to]
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Something not quite right about this. The harness, like others have said, looks brand new.
The sellers are saying its a brother-in-law who no longer wants it and given permission to sell. Why isn't he selling it himself and why hasn't he included his climbing shoes, chalk bag and helmet (I know not everyone wears a helmet but if the guy has been an ice climber he would of been an idiot not to of).

I would stab a guess that the stuff is stolen or the climber met his end on the rock, hence no shoes, helmet, chalk bag are missing but don't take any notice of me, Im female and that's the way I think! If I had been you I would of wanted to talk to the guy that was selling it.

Here is a good link for you http://www.aspiring.co.nz/info-5.aspx
Get an expert to take a proper look at it and then sell off what you don't need.


TimeSpiral


Sep 17, 2012, 8:15 AM
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Points well taken, and I've thought of that as well.

Three chalk bags were included in the lot and there are actually four harnesses, one of which looks new, one looks very used, and two look like they are in good condition.

I'm going to reach out to the seller and try and get in touch with the son-in-law.

The lot has tons of stuff in it. Four ropes, 20 quick draws, a dozen autolocking carabiners, a Grigri, two belays, two dozen trad anchors, ice climbing gear, mountain axes; it's a very thorough lot.

I plan on having a local expect inspect the gear with me also, just as an FYI to those helping me here.


DemolitionRed


Sep 17, 2012, 8:20 AM
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You are welcome and btw, I would be interested in your ice hacks at the right price Wink


TimeSpiral


Sep 17, 2012, 8:26 AM
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Very cool. It appears some of the ice climbing gear might be easy to sell as just on this thread two people have already expressed interest.

I will have to figure out what a fair price is for the ice climbing equipment which I believe includes: 2 axes, one probe, and two ice screws.

I don't want to derail the thread into a selling thread, so please PM me if you're interested in any of the gear listed (not my intent when creating the thread).


billcoe_


Sep 17, 2012, 8:59 AM
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Clearly there is a lie and some bullshit involved. If the son is not there how can they (or you saying it's "them") say it's new? Who would buy all that stuff and NOT use it? Sorry to say it, but I distrust you and find your post fishy. Something isn't right here. If you proved the link where you got the items, or where you are located, I might be dissuaded that you are not a crook. But this ain't right.

TimeSpiral wrote:
Greetings, RC'ers!

I just agreed to purchase this lot of gear. It seems like a great deal. I'm new to the sport (just got back from Kalymnos, Greece).

The seller claims, "Gear was my sons and he is not here with us so we are cleaning up and this equipment is brand new and never used all the rope, and other items used for mounain and ice and alpine climbing."

Do you guys have any tips to help me inspect this gear for safety?

I'm new to the site and the sport, but I look forward to interacting here. Also, I intend to write a trip report about my experience in Kalymnos - it was incredible.

Here are the images of the gear (one is blurry. I didn't take the images):




Also; I don't need some of this gear and will be looking to sell it, like the ice climbing axes and the ice probe. Is RC a decent place to sell gear?

Thanks, everyone!


TimeSpiral


Sep 17, 2012, 9:59 AM
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Fair enough, Billcoe_.

I had not considered the possibility that I might be looked at as suspect here when posting this thread, but when you write it out like that I completely agree with your skepticism!

I live in Tarpon Springs, Florida. I had just returned from a family vacation, got hooked on climbing, and wanted to see if I could find some good deals on used gear. It seemed, at the time, like a decent way to save some money and get involved with the sport. Now, I'm starting to think I might be on the shitty end of this stick, or worse : /

I found the ad on Craigslist. They are locals in the Clearwater, Florida area, or so they say. Selfishly, I did not post the link because I did not want competition, as I had not actually received the items yet, I had only agreed to buy them. Part of me assumed the RC community would never do such a thing, but I'm new here and really have no idea what to expect.

I brought the gear home after giving it a cursory inspection in the parking lot of a Bealls department store, and learned that the gear was definitely used.

Feeling uncertain, and a newfound pang of buyer's remorse after reading the RC responses, I reached out to the seller and wanted to talk with her son. I received a very dubious response: He is no longer with us. He committed suicide, it's a touchy subject. and then she went on to say the Dad said he was unsure of the gear's usage, then reclaimed it was not used, then assured me it was all safe.

Or he died climbing, I thought, and I'm getting a dead man's gear ... I think I might just have to eat this as a learning experience and be the one getting duped here. Obviously there is little recourse to be had with a Craigslist seller, and now I don't trust anything about this gear.


DemolitionRed


Sep 17, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Out of interest, how much did you pay for it?


TimeSpiral


Sep 17, 2012, 10:13 AM
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They wanted $400, they took $350.

It appears I might as well have wiped my ass with that money instead Mad

I'm inclined to think I should try and return the gear and get my money back. The whole ordeal feels wrong. Or do I try and sell the reliable gear, and junk the soft stuff? I don't know ... Shoot! Or maybe have Yates re-dogbone the QDs?


(This post was edited by TimeSpiral on Sep 17, 2012, 10:47 AM)


billcoe_


Sep 17, 2012, 11:29 AM
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All this happened between your first post yesterday at 9:52 AM and This post of 9:59 AM today? I'm getting dizzy in between your story and your time frame.


TimeSpiral wrote:
Fair enough, Billcoe_.

I had not considered the possibility that I might be looked at as suspect here when posting this thread, but when you write it out like that I completely agree with your skepticism!

I live in Tarpon Springs, Florida. I had just returned from a family vacation, got hooked on climbing, and wanted to see if I could find some good deals on used gear. It seemed, at the time, like a decent way to save some money and get involved with the sport. Now, I'm starting to think I might be on the shitty end of this stick, or worse : /

I found the ad on Craigslist. They are locals in the Clearwater, Florida area, or so they say. Selfishly, I did not post the link because I did not want competition, as I had not actually received the items yet, I had only agreed to buy them. Part of me assumed the RC community would never do such a thing, but I'm new here and really have no idea what to expect.

I brought the gear home after giving it a cursory inspection in the parking lot of a Bealls department store, and learned that the gear was definitely used.

Feeling uncertain, and a newfound pang of buyer's remorse after reading the RC responses, I reached out to the seller and wanted to talk with her son. I received a very dubious response: He is no longer with us. He committed suicide, it's a touchy subject. and then she went on to say the Dad said he was unsure of the gear's usage, then reclaimed it was not used, then assured me it was all safe.

Or he died climbing, I thought, and I'm getting a dead man's gear ... I think I might just have to eat this as a learning experience and be the one getting duped here. Obviously there is little recourse to be had with a Craigslist seller, and now I don't trust anything about this gear.


TimeSpiral


Sep 17, 2012, 11:31 AM
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Yeah ... I'm pretty upset about the whole ordeal. Sorry about the dizziness!


USnavy


Sep 17, 2012, 11:44 AM
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climbingaggie03 wrote:
I think there was a climbing accident/fatality several years ago that involved a rope that was unknowingly weakened by exposure to car battery fumes.
It was an injury and it involved a climber who decked in a gym from rope failure. The climber placed the rope on the ground in the parking lot. When the rope was on the ground it came into contact with sulfuric acid on the ground. "Car battery fumes" is mostly just evaporating water and hydrogen. The liquid in automotive batteries is typically a mixture of 30% sulfuric acid and 70% distilled water. Overtime the water in the battery can evaporate, but sulfuric acid does not really evaporate. That is the reason why automotive batteries that are low in electrolytic fluid should be refilled with water, not battery acid. When voltage and current is applied to the battery from the alternator, small hydrogen bubbles are produced in the electrolytic fluid mixture causing a buildup of hydrogen gas in the battery's cells. The hydrogen gas is vented into the atmosphere or filtered through a hydrogen filter. But the hydrogen is not really the problem, it is the sulfuric acid. That is what will weaken a rope and that is what caused the rope failure in the example above. It is for that reason that you should never set your get on anything in the engine bay or on the ground in a parking lot.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 17, 2012, 11:51 AM)


TradEddie


Sep 17, 2012, 5:16 PM
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TimeSpiral wrote:
They wanted $400, they took $350.

It appears I might as well have wiped my ass with that money instead Mad

Even if you throw out every piece of nylon, you've still got much more than $350 worth in that pile.

As to billcoe's question about who would go out and buy all that but never use it; this is America, much of the economy is dependent on "consumer discretionary spending" i.e. people buying sh** they don't need. It happens all the time, many people have more than enough money to buy all that stuff on a whim, and decide soon enough that climbing is not for them. Many of those people have enough money that it isn't worth their time and effort to try sell it. I've seen it happen, I'm sure most others have too.

Most of that gear looks about 10 years old but barely used, I think that story sounds plausible.

TE


TimeSpiral


Sep 18, 2012, 7:18 AM
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TradEddie wrote:
TimeSpiral wrote:
They wanted $400, they took $350.

It appears I might as well have wiped my ass with that money instead Mad

Even if you throw out every piece of nylon, you've still got much more than $350 worth in that pile.

As to billcoe's question about who would go out and buy all that but never use it; this is America, much of the economy is dependent on "consumer discretionary spending" i.e. people buying sh** they don't need. It happens all the time, many people have more than enough money to buy all that stuff on a whim, and decide soon enough that climbing is not for them. Many of those people have enough money that it isn't worth their time and effort to try sell it. I've seen it happen, I'm sure most others have too.

Most of that gear looks about 10 years old but barely used, I think that story sounds plausible.

TE

The hardware on the QuickDraws appears to be in good condition. They are definitely used; nicks and scratches here and there, but the gates do not stick and nothing really feels loose. Is it reasonable to assume that if I have new dogbones installed that these are okay to use?

I've decided that there is no way to verify the ropes' safety and will therefore not be using them for climbing. I guess I just have a lot of non-climbing rope now. Oh well. Same thing with the slings.

The cams and the trad anchors all look like they are in really good condition and the slings are not really "soft" material, but from what I gather it is the most suspect part in regards to the gear being used. I'm not a trad climber, so maybe I sell them with the disclaimer that they should be reslung?

Thanks, guys! I'm sorry for such a ridiculous first thread Unsure


climbingaggie03


Sep 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
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I don't think I'd have any trouble trusting any of those biners, and yeah I'd throw away the slings and rope. The term "soft goods" doesn't necessarily mean that they're soft, just softer than metal. I think it's perfectly reasonable to sell the cams telling people that the slings are suspect, that's fairly common.

Just so you know, you don't have to send the quickdraws off to get new dog bones (except for the DMM ones) alot of those you can just buy new dog bones from REI or backcountry or any other online retailer and do it yourself.


TimeSpiral


Sep 18, 2012, 12:28 PM
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Are dogbones synonymous with runners? What are some of the attributes I should keep in mind when buying new ones?

Any tips on how to remove the old ones and install the new ones myself? Maybe there is a good article that you guys know of.

Also, sorry for the noob question; the QDs I have are currently configured so the gates alternate; anchor side faces one way, rope side faces the other. Is this preference, sign of an old QD, or what?


Thanks!


jeepnphreak


Sep 18, 2012, 1:00 PM
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TimeSpiral wrote:
[image]http://images.craigslist.org/5Ib5E55F53Eb3J13lbc9c251c2ca2f08a1192.jpg[/image]
[image]http://images.craigslist.org/5Id5K25M93G43F33Jbc9cd0580ea889381cab.jpg[/image]
[image]http://images.craigslist.org/5F35M75J63E93Kf3M9c9c0afde0fc76e3112d.jpg[/image]


Looking at the nylon runner aka dog bones, those look mighty like the runner that Blackdiamond used in the late 90s. The single stem cams are in the 6-10 year old range and those old DMM xeons havent been made in years. All in all I would guess than most of that gear is 12-14 years old and not worth much.
toss out or use it for other purposes all the ropes and other sof goods. The carabiners and cams are probably good to use still. But check it over well.

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