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wildtrail
Feb 4, 2003, 7:00 PM
Post #26 of 40
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Well, first of all, "take a class" is the best advice you can get. Why? Because you should never trust anything you hear on-line. Grated, nobody is lying to you here, and most people do know what they are talking about, but taking a class is the best way to go. Learning from someone experienced. If you don't take a class, you should go climbing with someone that is experienced.
Hey, just because there is typical things brought up, doesn't mean they are bad. Covering the bases with things like that may help. Believe me, in my years of experience, I have come across those that were just out on their own trying to figure things out.
It's due to a presponible climber that he/she will tell you those things you are "tired" of. Frankly, you're making yourself sound more like a "newbie".
No one is trying to insinuate that you are stupid, or anyone for that matter. When someone asks me a question, I'll give them the information they need and a whole lot more to make sure. Like I said, it shows responsibility to cover bases and point out the obvious. There ARE people out there that need it. To not mention certain things, though a broken record, is irresponsible, but you're new to the world of climbing and I don't expect you to know that. You'll understand more when you see someone doing something deadly wrong or some other form of bad climbing experience.
Steve
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dingus
Feb 4, 2003, 7:19 PM
Post #27 of 40
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Interesting thread... the wheel of life!
Think of primary school, the students and the teachers you have known. Some teachers are very patient and cherish seeing their students learn and progress. They never seem to tire of addressing the same old questions year in and year out. Probably because they are real teachers and it's not the subject matter that matters, if you will. It's the learning of the student.
Other "teachers" are short tempered and resemble the sexual organs of their host bodies (respectively). They are not above ridicule and contempt. They tend to focus on the bright students who don't "waste their time" to the exclusion of those that really need them. They are not teachers at all, but rather are simply knowlegable adults placed in positions that try their patience and temperments.
Some students are willing pupils who do their homework and study dilligently. Others are lazy and frankly, not too bright and have to be told what to do over and over. Good students will tend to thrive no matter the teacher. Match a good student to a good teacher and something magical can happen O(mentorship). But poor students can become good ones under the guidence of a good teacher too. But poor students can also become utter failures under the thumb of a tyrant. A bad teacher and a bad student combine to form a volitile, unstable mix.
They should have tests for that sort of thing...
And yet, as I think back, the really good teachers are few and far between. The ill-suited ones are a dime a dozen. As a student we are forced to endure the bad ones and often find ourselves admiring and respecting the good ones despite ourselves.
Thus is the real world. If you ask a question to an open group of people, you will get a representative response. Most of these people are not suited to be teachers and their responses will reflect that. By asking, you are incurring the response. The person who said, "there is no such thing as a stupid question" obviously never participated in an internet discussion forum, where stupid questions abound!
In the end we are who we are. All too often I have seen ignorant star-eyed newbie grow into jaded and cynical master, in turn taking their place in the pecking order of a pack of wolves, getting in their licks as they once were forced to endure. Will you grow into that person?
Ask a question and get bit. Ask another and get stroked. Count your blessings when the latter outnumbers the former!
Finally, fow whatever it's worth, I say...
Don't worry about taking a class. You don't need to master a piece of gear in order to purchase it. And tell the smart mouthed bullies where to put it when they step over the line. But it certainly doesn't hurt to search a forum for the answer to a commonly asked question!
DMT
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boulderingmadman
Feb 4, 2003, 10:17 PM
Post #28 of 40
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you wanna learn how to build anchors? the best thing you can do is go to a small section of rocks and build a bunch of anchors. with two feet firmly planted on the ground, experiment.
give your gear a number value-1 being the poorest, 4 being super bomber, wouldnt come out if a truck fell on it. realize that you NEVER use a 1, and you rarely FIND a 4.
now using your gear, and the common sense application of it, build several anchors, totaling a value of 8. when you think youve got one, hang from it. clip your harness into it, hang from it, and move your ass around as if there were a swarm of bees stuck in your shirt.
failing that, PAY FOR A DAMN CLASS if you cant find a knowledgeable friend. your life should never be worth LESS than appropriate training, and if the only way for you to get that training is by paying for it, bite the bullet and pay foir it.
with that said, very few climbing areas are lacking in old pros who are willing to share their experience...
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mhr2000
Feb 4, 2003, 10:52 PM
Post #29 of 40
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Well, this thread wasn't started to solve all the issues of WHY newbies ask questions. It's just an explanation of how we simply want answers to the questions we ask without being chastised.
I think every newbie understands that a class could very well help them. I also believe most newbies understand climbing is hazardous and they should spend time with experienced climbers until they learn how to be safe. Most newbies, whether they spell it out in every post or not, understand what they are gettng involved in.
All I was trying to do was get out in the open what most newbies are tired of hearing. This way those who wish to help will realize telling us these things aren't helping and your wasting your own valuable time that could be spent on the real answer. Last thing we want to do is inconvenience anyone.
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boulderingmadman
Feb 5, 2003, 7:49 AM
Post #30 of 40
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i know. i understand. i think youll find that overall, most people, myself included, are very genorouse with our knowledge.
its not the people to which you are referring that need to be protected. the people you talk about are intelligent enough to know those things, theyre also intelligent enough to decipher the bull$#!& and get to the heart of the matter.
its the idiots out there, of which there are far too many, thatDONT understand what they are getting into, and DONT have a concept of the relative danger and potential for injury that exists in this sport. its these people that cause more experienced climbers to treat every newbie as if they knew nothing.
its really not personal, at least in my case. its a matter of not wanting to feel responsible the one time i dont explain every single detail, assuming this newbie has a clue, and then hearing about somone dying.
if you treat every question as if the asker has no idea what you are discussing, youll be sure to get the right point across...
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caseyboy7
Feb 5, 2003, 4:33 PM
Post #31 of 40
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First, I want to say that I am 99.9% of the time grateful for any info. I get from experienced climbers. That said, I hate when some people give you tips on a boulder problem in the indoor gym and they are not trying to help you. Rather, they are showing what they can do and you can't. For example, I was having trouble on a problem two weeks ago. I knew what I had to do, but I am just not strong enough yet. Well, this guy kept yelling at me to just pull myself up. Then, after telling me twenty times, he walked over and just cruised though it like it was nothing. I told him that I understood, and I know that he knew I understood. It was all just a big matter of him acting like it was so easy and "look, I can do it in 2 seconds". My point is this, I hate when you meet that 1 in 100 guy at the gym who works in with you not for the prupose of helping you out, but rather for the opportunity to make himself feel big and strong by outclimbing the newbie. Basically, I hate hearing "Come on, that's so easy. I'll show you." No its not easy, and you didn't think it was easy when you started out either.
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rrrADAM
Feb 5, 2003, 4:50 PM
Post #32 of 40
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IMHO... There is no such thing as a stupid question if one's life or limb is at stake.
We all "learned" to climb somehow, and the purpose of the Forums is for the exchange of information.
Sometimes many threads degrade into "hair-splitting" by people who have knowledge of, but no experience of applying that knowledge, and this serves no purpose, but only dilutes and confuses the issues to newcomers.
As for "take a class"... I think that 2nd to having a mentor willing to teach you first hand all the systems used for the various styles of climbing, a "intro class" is the best idea. For a beginner, books, and Forums will not give one the understanding required to get on the sharp end without running the risk of becoming a statistic, and having a thread devoted to them in the Accedents & Injuries Forum.
For climbers with much experience, the Forums serve as a classroom for more advanced systems. For example, check out the Aid Forum, as "class is in session". But still, a beginner cannot learn everything required to do a Grade V Big Wall, when they do not even know what Grade V means, get it.
IMHO... Any user who slams, flames, or puts down a newbie for his question, is a newbie themselves, but wants others to think they are experienced. All the expereienced climbers I have met have always been willing to explain even the most basic questions.
Again... There is not such thing as a stupid question. They are asking because they do not understand, and it is better to fully understand the reason behind the answer, rather than just do as one is told with no understanding. Climbing is "detail oriented", so everyone needs to understand the details.
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greengecko
Feb 6, 2003, 3:33 AM
Post #33 of 40
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Yah know what i hate when someone starts a forum to complain about something (the irony ah the irony)
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mhr2000
Feb 6, 2003, 4:00 AM
Post #34 of 40
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Yah know what i hate when someone responds to a forum to complain about someone starting a forum to complain (the irony ah the irony)
[ This Message was edited by: mhr2000 on 2003-02-05 20:02 ]
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moabbeth
Feb 6, 2003, 5:11 AM
Post #35 of 40
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This turned into a pretty interesting thread.
The only newbie questions I see that I kinda roll my eyes at are really obvious ones where the answer is plainly here on the website via the CLIMBING TERMS link in the left side of the website. I think that's what I interpret people to mean when they tell people to use the search. The "what's a chimney" or "what is a heel hook" can be explained with a few simple clicks. I know I had a ton of questions about climbing terminology - cause it really is a language all it's own - when I started out and I consulted the terms on this site every time and found a great answer. And if I wasn't 100 pct satisfied with the answer or wanted to know more I'd consult my JL "How to Rock Climb" as backup.
However, I totally understand the newbie technique and gear questions that may seem really dopey to more seasoned climbers though. Those are the kind of quesitons that new people are looking to seasoned climbers who have been there for safe, sound advice. It's when people can't figure out how to simply look up a definition and have to make a post asking about it that I tend to scratch my head.
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mhr2000
Feb 6, 2003, 9:08 PM
Post #36 of 40
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I'm very much the same way moabbeth. I will pretty much search the entire net for as much information as I can get. The more info you get makes it easier to weed out the garbage.
However, being in the IT field I see every level of computer knowledge there is. Some people can use their primary software with their eyes closed, but can't double click a silly icon. You know who I'm talking about, those people who only use Word or Excel, but they wouldn't know how to open and use windows explorer if you offered them $100,000. So some of these people may not be at all computer literate, but taught themselves just enough to be able to enjoy these forums.
It is scary to think how somebody who won't spend 5 minutes to look over the site is going to take on the much harder task of rock climbing. However, this assumption is exactly what causes problems. Nobody can possibly know the intentions behind why a question is asked. Maybe the person did look over the site and simply missed the section that would answer their question. Posting a link to that section will be much more productive then saying "do a search".
Hopefully this thread will help save some time for those who are willing to help us newbies out since they will know what helps and what doesn't.
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mazzystr
Feb 6, 2003, 9:25 PM
Post #37 of 40
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 450
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One of my buddys told me that he doesnt see the point of climbing around on walls...
hes a middle aged dude whos grossly overwieght
-Chris
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wideguy
Feb 12, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #38 of 40
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As a newbie myself, I must say, the search is a great tool. Sure, ask the question again, but search too. No such thing as too many ideas, even if some need to be discarded or ignored. I always search first and them try to mention that in my post, "Searched on this but looking for other opinions..." Keeps the flames at bay fairly well
Back to the original post, what I hate most is people "desperately" looking for partners, "Any partner, any skill, willing to teach, willing to climb below my skill, just wanna get on the rock, yadda yadda yadda..." types who never take anyone up on their offer to climb. If you don't want to climb with a newbie, say so.
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mowz
Feb 12, 2003, 8:48 PM
Post #39 of 40
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Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 1495
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Yeah, search. Def def....definitly. Yeah, search. Definitly. Hehe. Anyways...
What I'm annoyed with is people named Statts who like soft shell tacos from Taco Hell.
And no, his name is not corny (though he might be...)
J/k Staats. We love you.
-Mowz
P.S. Search
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thegodfather
Feb 12, 2003, 9:15 PM
Post #40 of 40
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Registered: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 200
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yeah, you know what i dont like? is people like roger here thinkin he is cool by knocking taco bell. i will cause bodily harm, next time i see you at the wall, and what wrong with naming routes, man? i think its a cute thing to do, you know?
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