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hans
Mar 6, 2003, 6:51 AM
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Registered: Oct 30, 2002
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I've decided that I'm going to finally retire my old ropes once and for all and get a new dynamic lead line and a static line for jugging and hauling.
I've done some research and found a few ropes of each type marketed for big wall usage, but it's hard to tell from the sales propaganda what's real and what's hype.
Does anyone have any specific recommendations?
Thanks!
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mrhardgrit
Mar 6, 2003, 3:05 PM
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Registered: Nov 28, 2001
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mammut flex - It ain't done me bad.... and it didn't snap when I fell on it! Haha!
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grippedclimber
Mar 6, 2003, 3:35 PM
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I have used a bluewater enduro that has really lasted. I have always had great luck with PMI ropes. I would check out the new big wall ropes that Yates has to offer. I have not used these, has anyone else? They sure do look cool.
Anyway, I know you could not go wrong with a bluewater enduro or a PMI
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epic_ed
Mar 6, 2003, 3:51 PM
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Registered: Jun 17, 2002
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I have three PMI ropes and will never buy another one. All three have worn quickly, haven't been very abrasion resistant, and handle like crap. I invested in one of their best ropes, thinking maybe I was being unfair since I had bought some of their program ropes in the past. This one is the worst of the group! It handles like a freakin steel cable and tangles hopelessly with any rope that comes near it. I'd like to just throw it in a wood chipper, but I'm afraid it would gunk up the chipper.
I also have Mammut and Sterling ropes. I much prefer these and would agree that the 11mm Flex is an awesome Big Wall rope.
Ed
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grippedclimber
Mar 6, 2003, 4:05 PM
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Wow, I've always liked PMIs. I would also agree that the mammut flex is a good rope, I have one, but the bluewater enduro is much more burly and far more durable. I use my flex for free routes. I would certainly use it for walls, but if I was to buy one rope just for walls I would not choose the flex. I wish I had a wood chipper.
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passthepitonspete
Mar 6, 2003, 5:44 PM
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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Dude, all the ropes these days are pretty darn good. You don't hear of ropes breaking from time to time like you did twenty years ago. And if Tom Randall couldn't break his rope on his Factor 2 fall, nobody can! Sheesh.
There are three things you need your big wall rope to be:
CHEAP and FAT and LONG.
You can argue all you want about how some manufacturer's ropes are more rugged or abrasion-resistant than others, but the bottom line is that they're all decent. So buy the cheapest one you can find.
It's hard to find an 11mm rope any more - they make them thinner for the same reason dogs lick their balls - because they can. So get yourself a fatty.
Finally, it is hard to rant enough about the benefits of having a LONG lead rope on a big wall, especially if you are soloing! So for me, the choice is simple - I go to the Mountain Equipment Co-op and ask them to cut me a 70m hunk of rope right off the spool.
And with any luck, they will do precisely what they once did to me back in 1998 - I sh*t you not! I ordered 70m, and they sent me 16m and back-ordered the other 54m!
When I got the 16m hunk in the mail, and phoned them to tell them, they said "keep it" - they would get the order right.
Duh.
The next week my new rope arrived - 54 m! They told me to keep that one for free, too. [Damn straight they did...]
Finally a couple weeks later, I got a nice 70m hunk to complement my 54m freebie.
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spike
Mar 6, 2003, 6:04 PM
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Registered: Dec 3, 2001
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Here is info. on YATES BIG WALL rope - Note: length does matter - right PTPP - 65 meter rope standard!!!
BIG WALL ROPE
YATES 11mm Big Wall Rope is now the “El Cap” Wall Rope of choice. Unique 40 carrier braid technology enables us to have the thickest sheath(40%) on any dynamic rope on the market. Zero sheath slippage with low static elongation makes ascending a breeze!! Available in “new” 65 meter Standard or Double-Dry, Orange/Red and Yellow/Blue.
Diameter 11mm
Weight per meter 77g
Impact force 8.8kN
UIAA falls held 16
Sheath percentage 39.4%
Sheath slippage 0mm
Static elongation 6.3%
Dynamic elongation 30.3%
Passes: UIAA 108 “ Sharp Edge Resistance” Test.
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eclarke98
Mar 6, 2003, 11:13 PM
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Registered: Aug 23, 2001
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Too bad the Yates ropes are the antithesis of cheap; $190 for standard, $220 for dry. You can find deals where you get 2 60m ropes for that price. But I'm sure if I had lots of money, I might check them out.
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iamthewallress
Mar 7, 2003, 1:16 AM
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
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I'm not sure I could still stand w/ 70m of 10.5-11 mm rope behind me. Well, I could probably stand, but I don't think I'd do well humping two fat 70's around and I'd hate to have to bust a free move at the end of the 70m pitch.
What do y'all think is best for smaller people? I weigh ~120lbs. I reason that if a 10.5 is good for a 200lb man, I'm not likely to die w/ my 9.8 (which also works better in the Silent Partner). However, it seems easier to make this assumtpion when talking about forces generated in clean falls. How big of and effect would being light have on reducing wear due to rubbing/sawing as happens when jugging.
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passthepitonspete
Mar 7, 2003, 1:31 AM
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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When your skinny little sport-climbing-weenie 9-mil-and-change rope runs across an edge while you're jugging it, it won't matter how much you weigh.
This is the wall, and walls are hellacious on ropes. They get trashed very very easily. The 70m jobbies are for linking pitches. It's worth the extra weight.
Play it safe, get it thick.
But why, pray tell, would you climb with two seventy-metre ropes on you?
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iamthewallress
Mar 7, 2003, 6:33 PM
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I woud rarely be climbing with the weight of 2 70's on me, but I'd have to carry two of them to the base. (One dynamic to lead, another static to haul.)
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brutusofwyde
Mar 8, 2003, 4:33 AM
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Registered: Nov 3, 2002
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Sterling 70m 10.5 marathon.
Wears like iron. Have someone else hump it to the base, and off the top, for you.
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apollodorus
Mar 8, 2003, 5:21 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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Mammut Flex is 11mm, and rated for 14 or 16 UIAA falls. Plus, it passes the UIAA edge-fall test. The sheath is beefy, so it will take awhile to wear through it. And it handles great. I'm getting another one for this season.
I heard that Bluewater is coming out with an 11mm rope that is also rated for something like 15 UIAA falls. That was a rumor I heard from a gear shop owner who saw it at some sales convention, or something.
Not that it really matters, but an 11mm rope LOOKS stronger than 10mm when you're jugging it.
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grippedclimber
Mar 8, 2003, 6:16 AM
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Registered: Sep 24, 2002
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BW enduro is 11mm and 14 fall rated
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copperhead
Mar 8, 2003, 6:31 AM
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Registered: Nov 26, 2002
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10.5 x 60 Stratos
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apollodorus
Mar 8, 2003, 11:34 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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Once again, Spike be da man.
Here's the Yates Big Wall Rope:
http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/bigwall/wall/BWropes.htm
For comparison, here is the Mammut Flex:
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/ropeflex.htm
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passthepitonspete
Mar 8, 2003, 1:56 PM
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
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Greetings from OozeFest, West Virginia!
I actually need to buy a lead rope to use in May on the wall, cuz my old one has had it.
Brutus' catches my eye for its length and iron-wear characteristics. What's the best price you can get for it?
See, the Mountain Equipment Co-op rope is pretty cheap for 10.5 x 70m:
$145 U.S.
Hey you internet shoppers - what are the best prices for Mammut, Sterling, BW and Yates? Can you beat this price including shipping?
Note: Because the Co-op sells some stuff so cheap, they are not allowed to ship certain items to the States. I do not know if this includes ropes.
For instance, Lost Arrow pitons are about ten bucks Canadian, which is like six bucks U.S., exactly half the price of the Mountain Shop in Yosemite.
In fact, I will not buy a rope under 70m, so don't even bother looking up anything shorter.
Got a price for your Sterling, Brutus?
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billcoe_
Mar 8, 2003, 4:11 PM
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
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As usual, one need to only listen to PTPP!!! His first post basically defines the truth, I can only add my personal feelings.
On those times where you abandoned a wall due to a storm that turned into a multi-day wind howling-tent fest/downpour. Eventually you return and clamp that jug onto the now drying rope and look up as the top of the rope dissappers over an edge. You start to jug and the rope is bouncing, rubbing ever so slightly over some unseen edge. You wonder, was that a sharp edge? You can't remember seeing it when you were rappeling, and of course it was raining or snowing at that time........hmmm......up you go anyway. As Apollo says, 11mil looks better than 10mil- esp. at times like these.
Personally I like the fact that Edelwiess has been out front in testing their stuff over a sharp edge. Their claims and PR about this can be great psycological comfort during those moments.
Yates has always made great stuff, I haven't seen their ropes yet, but taking a 2nd mortage out to get one may be too much.
Yet I still usually wind up with the sale rope de Jour. Unfortunately, taking an 11mil out to the crags to go day cragging or top-roping can be very disconcerting for the youth of today. Some of whom have never seen an 11 mil rope, and have difficulty belaying with one. (I'm not kidding about this!) (Like Dude, hey dude, how big is your rope man, it don't fit in my device!)
Regards:
Billl
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apollodorus
Mar 8, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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Wallress, your mass plus the spring in the rope is what the Scientists call a Simple Harmonic Oscillator, and has a natural frequency. This is how fast you bounce up and down after you stop moving on the rope. When you bounce on the rope, it stretches and rubs on the rock. By being careful to not jug/bounce at the natural frequency, you drastically reduce the wear when jugging. As you go up, the natural frequency increases, and it becomes easier to just jug away. At the bottom of a long pitch, though, almost any movement will bounce you on the rope. So, you step up on your jugs carefully, like walking on eggshells. If you start bouncing, either stop moving to get it to stop, or try to bounce at the right moment to counteract it and stop it (careful, though, because this can make it worse. The Airplanists would call this PIO: Pilot Induced Oscillation).
And a cheap rope is great, right up to the minute your 10.5 mm 6 fall rope hits a sharp flake. You can use the $60 you saved on your rope to pay for a fancy plastic urn for your ashes.
I would much rather have a better rope and one fewer cam.
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eminem
Mar 13, 2003, 5:46 AM
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Registered: Feb 26, 2003
Posts: 15
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10.5 60m stratos around 10 walls on it it was still in good shape
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atg200
Mar 17, 2003, 7:08 PM
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Registered: Jul 27, 2001
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i found a deal a year or so back where i could get 60m 10.5 mm blue water ropes of some kind(not the enduro) for $50, so i bought a bunch of them. i'd wear big gaping holes in the sheath in one route out in the desert. sandstone is ridiculously hard on ropes, and a round blob can wear your rope as badly as a sharp edge on granite while jugging.
so, after killing about 5 ropes in 6 months, i bought an edelweiss stratos - its really more like a car payment than a mortgage payment. there is no comparison with how well it holds up compared to the el cheapo's i've used. i still use the el cheapo's for free climbing, but stratos or the equivalent is all i will use on towers and walls for now on.
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