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enigma
Mar 17, 2003, 5:54 AM
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Oh sure,there's climbers who piddle around in the gym top roping and have sedate careers nonetheless.(nothing wrong w/that) :)
But then there's the big wall climbers,and those who frontier new climbing areas and routes,in isolated ,desolate areas. Who survive in the wild for weeks or months alone. :shock:
So my question is, Is this difference Apparent In the Beginning??? Or is this Something that occurs after a while.???
For Me, I think It forever changing,and I feel the tug for more extreme climbing(even if I'm not technically not there yet)
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climbsomething
Mar 17, 2003, 5:58 AM
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Randee, I think you'd probly agree, with your assessment of yourself, that it's a combo. Some people are just "extreme" by their nature, and some people are pretty obviously prodigies right out of the gate too (read Lynn Hill's book for one such example). I doubt you get a neon sign flashing right away, after your first climb, saying that you'll be transformed into some all-climbing being the next morning. I think for most of us mortals, it just gnaws on us, till we're happily, irreversably obsessed and blowing off work and school for our joy ;)
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xanx
Mar 17, 2003, 6:21 AM
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well, a lot of climbers i know are "extreme sports" people; they don't just climb, they also surf, snowboard, skateboard, mountainboard, BMX, ect.... these people also happen to be boulderers, which may have more of a reputation for harboring young "punks" and potheads than trad or aid or ice. of course their first love is climbing, but they also do those other crazy things i do not have the coordination to do, and for that i must say i really admire them. You must either be willing to take risks in order to live life to its fullest or have zero respect for your own body in order to do so many dangerous sports. (i tried snowboarding once... i lasted like 2 hours (of falling on my ass and my knees) before i gave up....)
as for dedication to climbing as such, i think that is apparent by how obsessed someone is with climbing. i must talk about climbing to my non-climbing friends like 50 times a day - no matter what they are talking about, i somehow relate it to climbing. e.g. -"Hey u should write something really huge on the back chalk board, it would be funny!"
-"Ok, maybe i'll write 'NICE RACK' and draw some cams and stuff, or maybe, "WOW THOSE ARE SOME SMALL NUTS" and draw some nuts and stoppers, but i don't really know how to draw a cam".
(i ended up not writing anything b/c i can't draw and w/out the drawings i would get in trouble)
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enigma
Mar 17, 2003, 6:51 AM
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In reply to: well, a lot of climbers i know are "extreme sports" people; they don't just climb, they also surf, snowboard, skateboard, mountainboard, BMX, ect.... these people also happen to be boulderers, which may have more of a reputation for harboring young "punks" and potheads than trad or aid or ice. of course their first love is climbing, but they also do those other crazy things i do not have the coordination to do, and for that i must say i really admire them. You must either be willing to take risks in order to live life to its fullest or have zero respect for your own body in order to do so many dangerous sports. (i tried snowboarding once... i lasted like 2 hours (of falling on my ass and my knees) before i gave up....) as for dedication to climbing as such, i think that is apparent by how obsessed someone is with climbing. i must talk about climbing to my non-climbing friends like 50 times a day - no matter what they are talking about, i somehow relate it to climbing. e.g. -"Hey u should write something really huge on the back chalk board, it would be funny!" -"Ok, maybe i'll write 'NICE RACK' and draw some cams and stuff, or maybe, "WOW THOSE ARE SOME SMALL NUTS" and draw some nuts and stoppers, but i don't really know how to draw a cam". (i ended up not writing anything b/c i can't draw and w/out the drawings i would get in trouble)
I can draw, oh well if you visit.!! :P
But those big walls on a portaledge for days, with aiders ,thousands of feet from the ground.That to me is extreme climbing. I wanna do it,but ...not ready yet
Maybe there's something inside that makes us want to climb and climb again,hmmn, wonder what it is???
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lox
Mar 17, 2003, 7:00 AM
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It all about the FLASH, baby.
YEAH.
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alpinist
Mar 17, 2003, 7:49 AM
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Of all the students I have taught, the ones I admire the most are the ones who do it to prove to themselves that they can.
One student of mine was deathly afraid of heights. Each day she made it a little higher on the wall and each day she gained a little more confidence. I know she will never be a big wall climber but when she reached the top of the wall for the first time, she was on top of the world.
What pushed her was the desire to over come her fear. What pushes each of us is uniquely different. For some it's climbing numbers. For others it's being outside. For me, it is everthing from pulling plastic to toping out Liberty Ridge (Mt. Rainier) on a clear day. :D
A friend of mine once explained:
"Climbing is about the friends we drink and the beer we meet."
.....I couldn't have put it better myself, it sneaks up on you like a beer gut.
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rocmonkey
Mar 17, 2003, 8:31 AM
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REMEMBER: You are there where your mind puts you... :wink:
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onelung
Mar 17, 2003, 8:46 AM
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Decent Question
I lost track of how many bones I have broken. When I was young I started saying "Pain is my friend" What I have done around the world ...upon reflection...I am pretty happy to be alive.
The only thing I stopped doing because I didnt feel comfortable with the risk/ reward was skydiving. But I was going thru allot of errors (hit the reef with my boat, broke a couple bones, ran out of air at <100ft>) in my life at that time and didnt think I wanted to learn thru error in this one.
In the past year my diet has changed, I have this risk hunger that I enjoy. Case in point I have an old mtn bike, Why doesnt anyone get down the hill faster than me? Yea I HATE to use my brake ...other than that I just hang on.
What was the question? Yea, I chance em!
Cheers,
Bill
Apologies for my verbosity!
Edited to answer the question: Yea I chance em and I have my whole life.
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dingus
Mar 17, 2003, 3:14 PM
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In reply to: So my question is, Is this difference Apparent In the Beginning??? Or is this Something that occurs after a while
In the beginning, the Gravity of the Extreme (if you will) is just circular posing. There is no experience to back up this call to the wild. We see some cool pics in the mags telling us how to look. We read some rad articles telling us how to behave. We talk to some oldtymers who preach to us what it was like and we say...
Man, I wanna wear that suit!
Enter the reality of the extreme vs. the image...
So my question is, Is this difference still present after a wall or two?
By the 2nd wall most of the posing is done. The unavoidable reality of big wall climbing, with all the work, and all the anxiety and all the dirt and grime and all the fear and pain, can shake the poser right out of us. Faced with a 3rd or a 4th big wall route, where we can no longer kid ourselves into thinking trade routes represent anything related to 'extreme', when contemplating something truly scary, we might place one of two newspaper ads:
Wanted: Partner - need someone willing to get on a big scary assed climb. I will do all of the leading and worrying if necessary, but will gladly swap leads with a competent partner. (now there is someone prepared for something extreme!)
For Sale: Portaledge, haul bag, aiders, daiseys, fifi, jumars, etc... barely used.
Is the difference apparent from the start? No.
DMT
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enigma
Mar 17, 2003, 3:26 PM
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[
In the beginning, the Gravity of the Extreme (if you will) is just circular posing. There is no experience to back up this call to the wild. We see some cool pics in the mags telling us how to look. We read some rad articles telling us how to behave. We talk to some oldtymers who preach to us what it was like and we say...
Man, I wanna wear that suit!
Enter the reality of the extreme vs. the image...
So my question is, Is this difference still present after a wall or two?
By the 2nd wall most of the posing is done. The unavoidable reality of big wall climbing, with all the work, and all the anxiety and all the dirt and grime and all the fear and pain, can shake the poser right out of us. Faced with a 3rd or a 4th big wall route, where we can no longer kid ourselves into thinking trade routes represent anything related to 'extreme', when contemplating something truly scary, we might place one of two newspaper ads:
Wanted: Partner - need someone willing to get on a big scary assed climb. I will do all of the leading and worrying if necessary, but will gladly swap leads with a competent partner. (now there is someone prepared for something extreme!)
For Sale: Portaledge, haul bag, aiders, daiseys, fifi, jumars, etc... barely used.
Is the difference apparent from the start? No.
DMT
Thanks for your response, I keep hearing from some of my friends,they don't have it anymore, I think this explains it ,their sentiment somewhat!! :roll: :)
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alpinerockfiend
Mar 17, 2003, 6:21 PM
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I believe that somewhere along the line of their climbing careers, everyone makes a choice about how far they want to take it. The person you described in the beginning, with their 9-5 desk job who heads into the gym on a nightly basis has made the choice to keep their climbing at that level, whereas people like Dean Potter and Tim O'neill chose to make it their life's focus. I think that every climber has the power to make climbing a top priority in their life.
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mreardon
Mar 17, 2003, 7:08 PM
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I knew I would be committed to climbing from the beginning. I started climbing in my tennis shoes at Stoney Point, three weeks later I had a used pair of Fires, a swami on my waist and was leading a couple pitches at tahquitz on a 7+ pitch 5.9 and finished the day with a 3 pitch solo of 5.6. Spent the next two years climbing every second of every day that I could. Then a few things happened along the way. I would grovel in the dirt for a couple months, then come back to my girlfriend's house and enjoy the benefits of a hot shower and food in the fridge.
Then the couple months turned into a couple days with the occasional week so I could enjoy having a television and a shower each evening with my wife. Then I had a daughter and stayed at home working for a year and a half. Sure enough that caused me to have cabin fever and I disappeared again for months at a time (those months turned into the climbing vids I released). At least it wasn't years like the first couple. Eventually I made it back home on a regular basis, but home is also a day trip from places like Joshua Tree and Idlewilde, or a weekend trip to Yosemite, Bishop, and Tuolomne. I refused a serious six figure job offer in Detroit because it would impair my climbing. Go figure, but money isn't everything. There are those that have to climb, and those that want to climb. I have to. I'll never be the best, I'll never be a standards pushing climber. But I'll also never stop. I won't starve myself to climb, but I won't starve my climbing to eat.
I think that every "full-time" climber finds this compromise. Some turn to guiding, others wash dishes, others find a career and sacrifice a bit of the climbing. But just because someone disappears onto a wall to climb for a few days doesn't mean they are more committed than the person who can only make it on the weekends. Sharma doesn't climb for months at a time, does that make him any less committed to climbing than the wall climber who does eight walls a year? Obviously not. It's just another perspective.
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camhead
Mar 17, 2003, 7:37 PM
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am I the only person who hates the term "extreme"? Jeebis Kreist, this is not a mountain dew commercial, I hate red bull, have no body piercings or dyed hair, and hate snowboarding.
yeah.
anyway, the thing that I like about climbing is that it IS so in control. Other "extreme" sports, such as kayaking, skiing, mountain biking, base jumping, whatever, all rely upon a commitment, a submission to gravity. Climbing is the opposite. We are in direct conflist with gravity, we never 'let go.' that's what I love about it. it is not about extremism or recklessness. It is about mastery, control, and subtlety.
fuck extreme.
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westside196
Mar 17, 2003, 9:59 PM
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In reply to: well, a lot of climbers i know are "extreme sports" people; they don't just climb, they also surf, snowboard, skateboard, mountainboard, BMX, ect.... these people also happen to be boulderers, which may have more of a reputation for harboring young "punks" and potheads than trad or aid or ice. of course their first love is climbing, but they also do those other crazy things i do not have the coordination to do, and for that i must say i really admire them. You must either be willing to take risks in order to live life to its fullest or have zero respect for your own body in order to do so many dangerous sports. (i tried snowboarding once... i lasted like 2 hours (of falling on my ass and my knees) before i gave up....)
I think I kinda fall into that category, but I wouldn't call climbing "extreme sports" like the media or whatever has turned it to be.
camhead said "Jeebis Kreist, this is not a mountain dew commercial, I hate red bull, have no body piercings or dyed hair, and hate snowboarding."
Now I'm young (21), I have body piercing, and I used to have died hair, from red to green and everything. And yeah I've snowboarded for a few years. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say why I started climbing. Now I'm sorta new to climbing, I've only been climbing for a few months and it's been practically all bouldering. Which I find kinda funny, because I never knew climbing was considered an "extreme sport" by some before I started. It's also kinda funny because I fit the stereotype pretty well. It kinda started for me because I hadn't been snowboarding as much. It gets expensive, and it starts to be harder to make time for a day trip down to the mountain, and I was never the type to go snowboarding alone either, so you have to find friends to come with you. The first time I went climbing, I was with a few friends and we had no idea what we were doing. Pretty much we would all try and climb the same spot, trying to figure out how to climb it. Once someone would realize the next move we would all start trying that. Which for me was a lot like snowboarding. Where we would try a trick off a jump, and help each other out trying new stuff.
That's pretty much how it started for me. If I don't have time to go climb outside I can just go to the climbing gym. Which I end up doing like 4-5 times a week. With a membership to the gym, it's cheaper too. If I'm bouldering I can just go to the gym alone if I want. I love being outdoors and on the rock, its like a zen experience for me. I find that most of the climbers I meet are a lot friendlier, and just have a different attitude than most snowboarders I used to meet. Bouldering got me into climbing but after I started climbing, I've started to be interested in all the others types and aspects of climbing as well.
Like I said I can't speak for all those extreme sports young punk kids, but I hope at least I could explain what climbing is from a similar perspective.
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wideguy
Mar 17, 2003, 10:05 PM
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That first time I saw someone toss a line over a 100' drop, clip in and rappel down, I thought, Holy S___!! That line looks impossibly thin and that ground looks so hard... It looks extreme. Key question is extreme what? To some it's extremely frightening, to others extremely exciting.
The former take up crochet or cricket, the latter climb. But look around you at most of the population who are afraid to cross the street most of the time. We find the tallest gnarliest rocks we can and try to climb them fully expecting that at some point we will trust our lives to 9MM of man-made technology, laughing harder the closer we come to meeting our doom. Maybe it isn't as extreme as doing backward somersaults on motorcycles or taking a kayak over a 70' waterfall, but it ain't exactly normal.
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alpinerockfiend
Mar 18, 2003, 4:39 AM
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In reply to: anyway, the thing that I like about climbing is that it IS so in control. Other "extreme" sports, such as kayaking, skiing, mountain biking, base jumping, whatever, all rely upon a commitment, a submission to gravity. Climbing is the opposite. We are in direct conflist with gravity, we never 'let go.' that's what I love about it. it is not about extremism or recklessness. It is about mastery, control, and subtlety.
You know, all of those other sports are about mastery as well. Attempt to ski a 55 degree, 8 ft. wide colouir and try to make the statement that it does not. Or the same with riding a bike down a steep piece of rutted, stony singletrack. You may argue that these sports are nothing more than a submission to gravity, and for some muscleheaded monkeys, it may be true. But here's news that's new to none of us: These same dudes exist in the climbing community. Picture the rippling pecs and biceps of a guy at your local sport crag who thrashes his way up a steep, juggy .11, relying totally on his strength to get him up the climb. Technique doesn't really enter into that equation, either.
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enigma
Mar 18, 2003, 6:15 AM
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In reply to: That first time I saw someone toss a line over a 100' drop, clip in and rappel down, I thought, Holy S___!! That line looks impossibly thin and that ground looks so hard... It looks extreme. Key question is extreme what? To some it's extremely frightening, to others extremely exciting. The former take up crochet or cricket, the latter climb. But look around you at most of the population who are afraid to cross the street most of the time. We find the tallest gnarliest rocks we can and try to climb them fully expecting that at some point we will trust our lives to 9MM of man-made technology, laughing harder the closer we come to meeting our doom. Maybe it isn't as extreme as doing backward somersaults on motorcycles or taking a kayak over a 70' waterfall, but it ain't exactly normal.
What's Normal anyway??? It's also the feeling you can do something that is hard,and others don't try. It's makes you feel empowered and confident that you can master it. Especially if its difficult and you've weathered your own self-doubt along the way. :!: :!:
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niceporch
Mar 18, 2003, 6:41 AM
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WHAT'S UP MY ENIGMA BABYBE.
I THINK THAT YOUR DRIVE TO BE AN ADVERNTERER IS WITH YOU WHEN YOU WERE BORN. GENETIC. SOME HAVE IT SOME DON'T. SOME WILL NEVER ADVENTURE (RC.COM ROCK PUSSEIS) AND SOME HAVE THE POTENTIAL. IT DEPENDS ON HOW HARD THEY WANT TO WORK TO PULL IT OUT. KNOWWHATI'MSAYING. YEAH.
I RULE. B.COM FOR LIFE.
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