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jaylaka
May 27, 2003, 3:37 PM
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so next year i'm moving west.
any recommendations?
my only requirements: awesome running trails and trad climbing close by, good school system, and affordable on a teacher's salary.
:D
or is that asking too much?
jen
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roseraie
May 27, 2003, 3:39 PM
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Not California, teachers' salaries suck here, and the cost of living is super high most places.
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alpinerockfiend
May 27, 2003, 3:52 PM
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Jackson, WY, has both world-class trad and tons or trail running options. The school system has its problems, but I don't believe salaries are that ridiculously low. I kayak with a number of teachers and all of them are married and live in desireable houses. A large amount of affordable housing was just built and I believe most teachers qualify. Check it out for yourself.
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jaylaka
May 27, 2003, 4:06 PM
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hmmm...i think california and oregon are ruled out due to the state of their educational systems and/or cost of living.
i love jackson. i camped at jenny lake for a week last year. beautiful. one question: are the winters sunny? i can deal with cold and snow, but not four months of dreary gray skies (like i have here in wisconsin!)
anyone know about flagstaff, az?
www.findyourspot.com is only so helpful. :? so i thought i'd ask the resident experts. :D
jen
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apolobamba
May 27, 2003, 4:18 PM
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Grand Junction, CO
The area has great trail runs, mountain biking trails, and road rides. It has pretty good climbing. It is not far from Rifle, Moab, and the alpine areas. Housing is still reasonable. The weather is hot in the summer and pleasant in the winter.
You may have missed the boat, because developers are turning the area into San Fernando Valley. About 2 years ago, you could have bought a cheap farmhouse. Now, on a teachers salary you are looking at a housing tract.
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jaylaka
May 27, 2003, 4:22 PM
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In reply to: Grand Junction, CO. You may have missed the boat, because developers are turning the area into San Fernando Valley. About 2 years ago, you could have bought a cheap farmhouse. Now, on a teachers salary you are looking at a housing tract.
story of my life.
here in wisconsin, even as a single mother and teacher, i can afford a nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch with a fenced yard. i was looking on realtor.com the other day at some city in colorado. as i surveyed the picture, a student asked me what i was doing. i replied that i had found something in my price range. he asked where the house was. i looked at him warily and replied that it was an empty lot. it slowly dawned on him and he said, "ohhh."
yeah.
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wpy71
May 27, 2003, 4:33 PM
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Flagstaff AZ is a pretty nice city. Beautiful hiking, running, biking trails on the San Francisco peaks, lots of sport and trad climbing within a short drive. Sunny, fairly dry winters, and even if does get snowed in you can always drive down to the desert and enjoy some 60-80 degree weather in January.
On the down side, Flagstaff housing prices are a bit pricey, particularly on a teachers salary. There has been a fairly large influx of Californians and Phoenix residents purchasing second homes. Flagstaff is largely boxed in by National Forest and other federal lands, so the laws of supply and demand have pushed prices up. Arizona is also not exactly at the top of the pay scale for teachers. If you could settle for a condominium rather than a single family home you might be able to pull it off.
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jaylaka
May 27, 2003, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: On the down side, Flagstaff housing prices are a bit pricey, particularly on a teachers salary.
yep. i could afford a doublewide there, according to realtor.com
i think one or two friends would move with me and my son. not sure if we'd buy or rent, but that would (hopefully) help the housing situation. but i also don't want to have to depend on having roomates to keep a roof over our heads forever, you know? :?
thanks for all the recommendations so far. i may have to do an extended road trip in august to check these places out. :D
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dlintz
May 27, 2003, 4:45 PM
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I'd have to agree on Grand Junction. It's a perfect location for just about any outdoor pursuit. With patience I'm sure you could still find reasonable housing.
Some may disagree with me on this one but there's a lot to be said for Salt Lake City. Not sure about the current housing market.
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crackwhore
May 27, 2003, 4:53 PM
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Grand Junction is way cool.
i'll throw in a vote for Moab also.
the quality of life here is great, cost of living is moderate and real estate is not too bad.
they might be opening a Charter School here also. we can always use good teachers.
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climbingbetty22
May 27, 2003, 4:59 PM
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Yeah, so in this same vein, does anyone know about Missoula, MT? It looks like a nice city, but what is the climbing like around it, specifically trad climbing??
Betty
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chugach001
May 27, 2003, 5:10 PM
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Anchorage! Highest teacher salaries in the US, Best ice climbing in US, Best skiing in the US, Best WW and Sea kayaking in the US, Best mountaineering in the US, Great trail & ridge running, great mountain biking. Plus no taxes, a state dividend of over $1,000 annually and great fun-loving people.
The down side is the Rock, it's crap close to road, mediocre with a hike and world-class with a plane flight.
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hasbeen
May 27, 2003, 5:58 PM
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story of my life. Keep the suggestions coming. There just has to be somewhere..., right?
Having lived most of my life in CA, if you prioritize play over making money you're destined to live in sh@# holes. Even now, when I make enough money to buy a friggin' palace in Landir, Wy, or some other country, I still have to scrape buy in LA.
Santa Barbara is paradise, but it's even more expensive. As for Flag, it was on my list but, as one of my friends that lives there said to me, "if you don't mind using your PhD to make $7 bucks and hour it's great.
Santa Fe, NM, is nice but still expensive. Tucson is still okay, and Mt. Lemmon makes the summer bearable. This is probably the number one option, currently.
Grand Jct has no culture, but maybe that could change. Durango is nice, but pretty expensive.
Bend is expensive. Maybe Vancouver, WA, though it's hard to work and has spotty weather. Ashland, OR is awesome but has also boomed.
Boulder has been ruined, as has most of the Front Range. Mammoth is off the charts expensive. Bishop has the dearth of culture issue and a strong undercurrent against developing any.
Glenwood used to have possibilities, which now seem to exist in GJ. Tahoe/Reno/Truckee has some potential, but problems with expense in the current cool areas.
Perhaps the whole outdoor sports community should get together and move somewhere and make our own town. We just use the infrastructure of some ghost town close to things that matter: rock, rivers, mtn and road biking, mtns and snow, then develope all the stuff we need. Kinda like that old Yogi Bear cartoon when they went looking for the perfect place.
It'll be so cool that we'll make our living off of tourism.
Whattaya say, partners?
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drector
May 27, 2003, 6:10 PM
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Reno, NV.
Tahoe is close so there's plenty of play areas. I have no idea about teachers pay. I do know that they were going to lay off all of the music teachers but changed their minds at the last minute so School budgets are a problem. Actually, if you could get a job around the Tahoe basin then you'd be in real good shape but Reno probably has more available. The cost of housing is a bit high here right now but there might be an adjustment pretty soon.
Dave
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apolobamba
May 27, 2003, 6:43 PM
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I hear you hasbeen about LA. I am stashing cash for the right opportunity. I almost took a job in Portland, but I thought I would be exchanging drawbacks. The swap of the air quality and housing costs of LA for the housing costs and rain of Portland did not make sense. Also, I would have to give up my love of granite.
But don't bag on the GJ, My girlfriend's parents have a house there. It is awesome.
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rockinitinark
May 27, 2003, 7:05 PM
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Yeah, so in this same vein, does anyone know about Missoula, MT? It looks like a nice city, but what is the climbing like around it, specifically trad climbing??
Betty
Missoula is a pretty awesome town, housing is pretty swell if you can find one, dunno bout teachers salarys or uuh anything. i got paid 5 bucks an hour to work at snowbowl soo uuh the back of my subi was my house :D but the climbing is pretty swell too!! you have blodget canyon in hamilton, and kootenai and just lots and lots of places. i say thumbs up to missioula.
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vegastradguy
May 27, 2003, 7:40 PM
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if you can cope with the heat...Las Vegas.
Upsides:
1) No state taxes
2) Low cost of living
3) Low rent, and many incl. utilities
4) Affordable new homes (we build 5,000 new homes a month here...)
5) High Demand for new teachers (see #4)
Downsides:
1) Hot.
2) Pace of life
3) Teacher salary is okay ($27ish, I think for new teachers, more if you have a masters and experience)
4) Traffic...but that can be circumvented
5) Did I mention hot?
Outdoors:
1) Red Rocks.....both for trails and climbing, its excellent
2) Mt. Charleston...for a summer trail destination (and sport climbing if you like really hard stuff)
3) Within 4 hours of wherever...LA, SD, PHX, etc....
4) Within a day of wherever...Yosemite, SLC, Moab, etc...
Anyway, just thought I would mention it. I'd also toss out Tucson, AZ as a possibility. Good climbin, lots of trails, low cost of living, and it's not a 24hr town like vegas...so it's a little slower...which can be nice.
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empty
May 27, 2003, 8:21 PM
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I live in Tucson and I'll vouch for it. Mt. Lemmon has a lot of good climbing and it's year-round. The cost of living is reasonable. Wages are low to medium. A 2 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood will start around $110k. I have a couple of friends who are teachers and they do all right, but I don't know what starting salaries are.
The pace of life is slower and more casual than Phoenix or other large cities. It's an easy town to settle into. I can't count the number of people I know who say they never intended to settle here, they just never left. Edward Abbey said it best - Tucson is an easy place to leave. I've done it lots of times.
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climber1
May 28, 2003, 4:50 AM
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In the same boat. want to get the hell out of LA. first choice is Flagstaff(but what is a mech designer to do?). other possibilities are Reno/Tahoe,
Durango, SLC or Moab. Bishop is also a possibility. Vegas is too hot.
is Reno getting congested? same for Salt Lake? really want to make the Flagstaff thing work.
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moabbeth
May 28, 2003, 5:02 AM
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I would be remiss to recommend anywhere but Moab. You'll have more trails than you can ever run, more trad climbing options than you could do in a lifetime, the people are the BEST (best locals anywhere...friendly, outdoorsy, etc...they'll make you feel at home) and the housing is still affordable (you can find a decent 2 bedroom house in downtown Moab for under $100K). The cost of living isn't very high there.
And the only time of year that gets kinda miserable is the height of summer....but as a teacher you'd have summers off so you could retreat up to Ouray, Telluride, Durango or anywhere else in the San Juans for gorgeous SW Colorado 70 degree sunshiney trail running galore. And if you don't mind the heat (personally I love it there in summer) you can stick around town and take up river kayaking along the Colorado, whitewater rafting, or just move your trail running and climbing from the heat of midday Moab to the LaSal Mountains just 40 minutes above town. There are trails up there to run and Mill Creek to spend your time climbing. Moab is heaven.
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pt
Jun 2, 2003, 3:38 AM
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Tucson is a great city to live and climb in 8 months out of the year. The summers suck but you can get up to Mt. Lemmon where its cooler.
The Front range of CO is too crowded these days but the climbing is good.
Lander WY would be an option but the town is small and it may be hard to find work.
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nobody
Jun 2, 2003, 4:30 AM
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Salida, Buena Vista, Leadville, CO. Relatively cheap, lotsa climbing and trail running. Salida has more than the highway truckstops that most people think, and mild winters. As far as cragging goes, the best known are sport - Penitente and Shelf Road. But there is a ton of climbing all around, just not well known.
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nimo
Jun 2, 2003, 4:33 AM
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I live in Grand Junction CO, and it is a great local for almost any outdoor activity. Moab is close along with lot of other things. We have some truly amazing climbing on sandstone and granite, with Rifle a short drive away. The school district is School District 51. It can be difficult to get a job here as a teacher due to the location. I do have connections to the new charter school and know they will be taking on some new teachers. I can get you the contact info if you wish. As for the housing market here it is decent. Prices are still reasonable and it should be easy to build equity fast. Prices are starting to rise however it is still a good time to get in here. There are still deals if you are willing to do the research and take the time. There is a growing climbing community here and a lot of other active people. There is not much in the way of culture, however things continue to get better. The music scene is improving rapidly. Good luck with your decition.
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jookyhead
Jun 2, 2003, 5:42 AM
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Tacoma Washington all the way! Right by the ocean and right by the mountains. Plenty of climbing within reasonable drving and I'm pretty sure we could use some teachers as well (I know mine could use replacing). Plus, the weather is pretty moderate, not too hot, not too cold (but rain can interfere with plans a wee bit...)
:lol:
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jaylaka
Jun 2, 2003, 4:38 PM
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hey y'all, thanks for all your input. i really appreciate it! :D
so far, grand junction is top of my "tentative list of places i permanently want to move to."
yeah, i know. :roll:
i looked into the schools - the local district is huge and the salary is comparable to here in wisconsin. now i just need to look into the housing market. the climate, running, and climbing look outstanding. and it's close to moab too. :wink:
jen
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