|
|
|
|
fo_d
Jun 14, 2003, 4:42 AM
Post #1 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2001
Posts: 918
|
This almost went in the Accident and injury forum, Today duskerhu was leading "Freebase" on gear, I was belaying him, we have done this several times over the last month and I had forgotten about my misgivings about cams in chossy limestone, anyway half way up just under the small roof Dan placed a nut (mid sized) then behind the roof crack a #2 Camolot, he then pulled the roof but found himself pumping out before he could get his feet above the roof, He called to me that he was in trouble and I moved in closer to the rock to reduce the chances of zippering in the event he fell, he then started down climbing to his last piece and just before he was level with the piece he peeled, the cam upon being weighted dislodged the entire roof block and sent him down to his next piece ( the mid sized nut) and a microwave sized block scraped past him as he landed on the nut. I had locked off as soon as the 1st piece gave with the block and only had enough time to turn my back toward the rock and duck my head down some, the block hit the small buttress that was now behind me and deflected around me instead of hitting me, witnesses said it was inches form hitting me and none of us could believe at 1st that it didn't hit me, it did scrape Dan up a bit as it went past him and a softball size piece landed on the top of my foot leaving a good sized lump but that was it, I lowered Dan to the ground immediately and that was pretty much the end of it.
Climbing "Freebase" should probably be avoided for a while as it seems there is still some broken rock that we couldn't free up, I'm pretty sure the rating for the route will change but I wont be leading it or any other chossy cracks at Barns again, cams in that crappy limestone don't work well together
I think I'll be wearing a helmet on some belays form now on and I don't think i'll be placing anymore gear at Barns :(
Les
|
|
|
|
|
rocksolid
Jun 14, 2003, 4:49 AM
Post #2 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2002
Posts: 143
|
Scary!!! Thanks for sharing the info. I am glad that both of you are OK...
Craig
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Jun 14, 2003, 4:53 AM
Post #3 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
I am truly happy that this story didn't turn out to be worse than it did. Thankfully you guys will live to climb another day.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
fo_d
Jun 14, 2003, 5:02 AM
Post #4 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2001
Posts: 918
|
you can see the small roof that is now missing in the bottom left corner of this photo:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos.php?Action=Show&PhotoID=3930
|
|
|
|
|
karma274
Jun 14, 2003, 5:11 AM
Post #5 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 141
|
Christ. I'm glad you guys are alright.
This sort of thing kind of reinforces the reasoning behind the bolting of "goofed on skunkweed" and the big roof crack out at Willow. It looks bad, but no one really questions it upon closer inspection. MN limestone tends to suck.
Glad to hear everything ended up alright.
|
|
|
|
|
corpse
Jun 14, 2003, 5:19 AM
Post #6 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 822
|
yeesh, glad you 2 made it out alright! I don't wanna hear about ya in the injuries forum.
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Jun 14, 2003, 7:38 AM
Post #7 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
Well first, I have to thank Les for keeping his hand on the brake and catching me as he watched a 300 to 400 pound block dislodge from the roof and quickly accelerate toward him!
Thank you Les! There is NO finer climbing partner than the one who will do his best to duck and risk his life while keeping you safe in a situation like this and fo_d is definately in the upper echelon of this group!
Les pretty much told the story there and I'll just add my personal observations and experiences...
First, this was one of my favorite routes at the bluff. Mostly because its a crack and I very much like the crack routes. We'd led this route on gear a number of times over the last month and had been very successful. On the top left of the block that came out, there was a bomber hold that everyone used to pull the roof move and never in the probably 20 times I've climbed this route have I ever found anything right in that area or on that block that I found loose or hollow.
I'd been routinely putting a #2 camalot in the outter left edge of the roof crack from underneath with a mid-sized nut for backup about 3 feet down in the crack below the roof. I'd always felt the cam was a bomber piece as the rock was smooth right there as apposed to the normal chunky-ness that limestone can often be. I would always give the cam a couple good tugs to make sure it was set well and then move over it to finish the route on easier ground.
Today was much the same except the route started off a little, lets say odd... I put in an anti-zipper cam near the ground and started up onto the large block at the bottom. I set my first piece in the crack above my head, and went to clip in and realized I'd forgotten my draws. So... I asked Les to hand me my draws and moved up to where I like to put the next piece. Then I thought, "if anyone else is going to climb this, I should put a couple draws on the anchor..." so I asked Les to "toss" me a couple more. At this point I should have realized I should come down and start over or give it up all-together. I kept going.
As I got up to the roof, I got the mid-sized nut in and then put the cam in. At this point I was realizing that I was burning out quicker than usuall on this route (probably due to having climbed since 0730 and before that, having worked all night and had now been up for 22+ hours) but I'd never had a problem pulling this roof before and didn't think twice about moving on. As I got above the roof I was in a strange position and couldn't quite get the holds I wanted. Nor could I get the feet I wanted and I couldn't get my right foot up and above the roof which would have made reaching the holds I wanted easy.
I called down to Les that I was in trouble and started to down climb back under the roof. Under the roof as I was trying to readjust my feet and get back into a better position, I came off and fell onto the cam (which was on a shoulder length runner). Weighting the cam put pressure on the block and obviously levered it out. Luckily for me, as I popped off, I kind of barn-doored back-ward to the right and out from underneath the block. If that wouldn't have happened and I'd fallen straight down, the block would have landed right on top of me.
It seemed to happen in slow motion. I came off, watched the cam fall to the nut below and watched the block go by me, hitting my left arm and leg heading straight for Les as I fell turning out-ward from the rock. Now facing out and down-ward I saw Les duck and move slightly to his right. The 300 pound microwave hit the middle of the 6 foot block at the bottom of the climb, right in front of Les, breaking in half with the two larger chuncks going one to either side of him.
Thankfully the block did not hit Les and our injuries are minor scrapes, bumps and bruises. A few of the witnesses, even a couple hours afterward, were convinced that the block would have killed Les had it landed on his head and as curt mentioned, we "will live to climb another day..."
Thank you to everyone for your concern and well wishes. We will live to climb another day and have certainly learned from the experience.
As for Freebase, if you're in MN and climb at Barn Bluff, it would be a good idea to stay off of it for a while as Les has mentioned above. There are some "loose" chuncks in the area where the block was dislodged and this could be dangerous until it rains a few times and we or someone else can get back up there and clean it out a bit.
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
And please be safe and careful!
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
wildtrail
Jun 14, 2003, 11:35 AM
Post #8 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 11063
|
I'm glad I didn't have to add anyone to "Accidents in North American Mountaineering," as I cover the area for that.
I've very, very happy you guys weren't hurt, or worse. Make sure you tell local rock shops, gyms, and guide services so the word gets out.
Again, glad to hear you guys are okay!
|
|
|
|
|
jtme
Jun 14, 2003, 1:41 PM
Post #9 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2002
Posts: 84
|
Damn Dann..................don't do that!!!!
I'm glad you're o.k....................Both of you!!!
-r-
|
|
|
|
|
rockhugger
Jun 14, 2003, 6:38 PM
Post #10 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2002
Posts: 419
|
That's strange that it happened because I was just thinking about that big rock that fell near sunburst. I'm glad you two are alright.
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Jun 14, 2003, 6:44 PM
Post #11 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
In reply to: I think I'll be wearing a helmet on some belays form now on and I don't think i'll be placing anymore gear at Barns :( Les
A Helmet??
You think that would have helped you if that thing hit your noggin?
Wearing a helmet would have given the Funeral Director more work to do by picking out pieces of plastic from your cerebellum.
|
|
|
|
|
voltzwgn
Jun 14, 2003, 8:26 PM
Post #12 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2002
Posts: 140
|
A helmet wouldn't help for a 300 pounder, but for the softball sized stuff it may make a big difference. I used to wear my helmet reluctantly but the more I read the more I want to put it on since you never know what's coming your way.
|
|
|
|
|
fo_d
Jun 15, 2003, 12:59 AM
Post #13 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2001
Posts: 918
|
I didnt post in the helmet thread so you all would bring the helmet discussion into this thread, if i decide i need to wear a helmet in certain situations that my bidness, if you THINK just a little bit about it youll realize that a helmet could help if its only a glancing blow or it might not do a damn bit of good but dont tell that it is usless to wear a helmet, thats just nuts.
BTW, why should i give a rats patooty if the funeral director has more work to do? thats not a very smart reason not to wear a helmet.
|
|
|
|
|
climber49er
Jun 15, 2003, 1:15 AM
Post #14 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2003
Posts: 1404
|
Yikes!
Glad you guys are ok! It always seems strange to me to think that if my belayer gets knocked out or flattened by a rock that I, most likely, am going for a really quick ride with a quicker ending! Maybe you could get lucky and the rock would land on the rope and hold you up... :wink:
Whats with drkomodos and has passion against helmets anyway?
|
|
|
|
|
brianthew
Jun 15, 2003, 1:43 AM
Post #15 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 1820
|
Yikes...
As many, many people say:
"Ah, Redwing. Everybody's favorite chosspile-turned sport climbing crag."
I guess us midwesterners take what we can. :D
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Jun 15, 2003, 11:03 AM
Post #16 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
In reply to: I guess us midwesterners take what we can. :D
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
j_magnuson
Jun 16, 2003, 12:11 PM
Post #17 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2003
Posts: 55
|
I replayed that sequence in my head all weekend, and that rock seemed bigger than a microwave. I went home and started looking for a new helmet. Glad you guys are still with us!
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
pj
Jun 16, 2003, 1:04 PM
Post #18 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2003
Posts: 20
|
SO glad to hear you guys are OK!!!!! I can't believe Bert and I were on that just two weeks ago - he led it and I went after on toprope for my first lesson in 'gear-cleaning' - either of us could have been in your shoes! Thank all the deities (I'll even invent a couple for this one....)
Paula.
|
|
|
|
|
pelliott
Jun 17, 2003, 9:26 PM
Post #19 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 317
|
You should have posted this in the Accidents and Injuries forum since Dann did get injured. I hope you guys recover quickly. I know from experience that these things can have a psychological as well as a physical impact. Both of these aspects require healing.
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Jun 18, 2003, 1:56 AM
Post #20 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
In reply to: You should have posted this in the Accidents and Injuries forum since Dann did get injured. I hope you guys recover quickly. I know from experience that these things can have a psychological as well as a physical impact. Both of these aspects require healing.
I think I would have been embarassed to put this in the Accidents & Injuries forum! :oops:
I know what you're talking about when you mention the psychological aspect... I'm hoping this experience will be somewhat liberating for me though. That was the first time I fell on lead on my own gear. Even though it was a rather short fall (3 feet above the nut that caught me), when I came down, I was feeling pretty confident in my placement of that piece and how it held me. Kind of euphoric right afterword with the block coming down, and no one injured, and still alive, and wow, I fell on that piece and I'm fine; didn't even notice I was on the rope til it was over. I was even immediately thinking how I could get my gear back when someone decided they would lead Rockaholics and clean some of the detrius and get my gear. 8)
That night I was wondering if I was missing something... I know I've learned a good lesson about those kind of blocks in that type of rock, but what else is there that I'm not seeing??? Well, I still haven't figured it out, but I know I want to push even harder now (not that I'm gonna be a crazy-man) and start going for stuff I can climb but may have been afraid to lead before... We'll just me more conscious of possible rockfall and when we're wearing our helmets.
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
lightboi
Jun 20, 2003, 7:02 AM
Post #21 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 27, 2002
Posts: 109
|
glad to hear both of you are ok!
Im even more glad that you popped your cherry three times in the same day!!!
Not only did you have your first fall, but you also had your first peice pop AND your first slam dance with rockfall. Learn your lessons from the experience.
Never assume.
Good gear pops.
Good Gear holds falls.
Rocks fall down.
Down climbing is key to trad climbing.
A good belayer is better than (insert something material)
Helmets arent such a bad idea.
Good lessons to be reminded of, thanks.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
andymatter
Jun 20, 2003, 11:19 AM
Post #22 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2002
Posts: 14
|
Dann,
Whoa, glad you made it out with just a scrape! and kudos to your belayer!
Take care!
|
|
|
|
|
pelliott
Jun 20, 2003, 6:29 PM
Post #23 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 317
|
I don't think you have anything to be ashamed of Dann. You are alive to tell about it, and learn from it. If you were dead you couldn't say that. What could you have done differently? Could you have checked the block before placing it to see if it was loose? Could you have placed the cam higher?
There might have been nothing that you could have done. Maybe the block was just ready to go, but maybe you helped it more than you had to. Maybe you can prevent this kind of thing from happening again.
Maybe Maybe Maybe....
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Jun 21, 2003, 1:34 AM
Post #24 of 24
(10175 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
In reply to: I don't think you have anything to be ?ashamed? of Dann. You are alive to tell about it, and learn from it. If you were dead you couldn't say that. The objective now needs to learn from it. What could you have done differently?
Ashamed??? I never said anything about being ashamed... I think you miss-understood Patrick; I said embarassed... "I think I would have been embarassed to put this in the Accidents & Injuries forum!" is what I said...
Ashamed, no... But I do feel "bad" or sorry that I could have killed Les if that block had taken a slightly different course.
And yes, I did learn from it... I learned to not put cams in cracks that consist on one side of patially detached blocks...
What could I have done differently??? Well, I could have not put that cam where I put it... I should have put another nut in the crack beneath the roof... I should have pulled the move above the roof... I should have taken a couple deep breaths and relaxed as I was down climbing back to the roof... I should have come down and started over when I started without my draws...
Anyway, the experience has been somewhat liberating; even only a week out now. And to be honest, I really can't wait to get to Blue Mounds and climb a more solid type of rock and see how liberating it really was.
andymatter, thanks for the wishes bro! Glad you're learning from my mistakes... :lol:
And Josh, you are one funny guy!
In reply to: Im even more glad that you popped your cherry three times in the same day!!! Not only did you have your first fall, but you also had your first peice pop AND your first slam dance with rockfall. Learn your lessons from the experience.
Thanks to ALL for your wishes!
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
