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moeman
Nov 16, 2003, 10:01 PM
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Lets face it, its a word, nothing else. A string of letter in a certain order. The meaning is only something that our cosiety attaches itself to. So go ahead, use it. The more, the better. Help further the desenseitisation of our country to "bad" language. Then we might stop focusing on WORDS and more on real ISSUES.
And besides, a "tangle" or a"mess" doesn't convey the emotion. I mean really, when you are a couple hundred feet in the air and everything goes wrong, do you say "Oh fooey"? No, you say HOLY FUCKING SHIT loud and proud
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moeman
Nov 16, 2003, 10:02 PM
Post #27 of 62
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and we really need to get rid of that damn auto-censor thing on this website
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no_limit
Nov 16, 2003, 10:18 PM
Post #28 of 62
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spell away doctor P
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bear
Nov 16, 2003, 10:20 PM
Post #29 of 62
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Registered: Apr 10, 2003
Posts: 52
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clusterf*ck.
it's a great expression and totally appropriate, but there's a need for a little more decorum in "professional" print than in casual internet forums... not going for political correctness by any means, just appropriateness for the medium.
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tim
Nov 16, 2003, 10:30 PM
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This reply will be deleted momentarily
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valygrl
Nov 16, 2003, 10:33 PM
Post #31 of 62
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Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 247
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Spell it out or use the *, anything but "frig" - that sounds sooooo lame.
Anyone ever see the movie Bull Durham on TV? They replaced the phrase "get laid" with "get loved" - was weak!
Anna
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adamtd
Nov 16, 2003, 10:38 PM
Post #32 of 62
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Posts: 187
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Use the word if it conveys the point or feeling you want the reader perceive. I wil say that although Rock&Ice isn't a novel or Time Magazine, it is a literary work. I would hope that their writers can be more creative. I find it much more interesting to read an article that is witty rather than crass. But if the word is what the writer feels is best... let the writer hold true to his art.
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reno
Nov 16, 2003, 10:41 PM
Post #33 of 62
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Registered: Oct 30, 2001
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Why not just use "A total cluster..." ?
People will know what you mean, you won't risk offending someone, and you'll still get the point across.
I don't shy away from using proanity when it is appropriate, but I've also always believed that educated adults should be able to communicate ideas without having to use profanity.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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noodlearms
Nov 16, 2003, 10:57 PM
Post #34 of 62
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Registered: Nov 24, 2002
Posts: 145
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Use the real word, if your editor will let you.
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zenjen
Nov 16, 2003, 10:57 PM
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Registered: Jun 10, 2003
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of course you should just say it! it's a perfectly descriptive word. heck, in this context, it's not even profanity. :roll:
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hexitup
Nov 16, 2003, 11:01 PM
Post #36 of 62
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Posts: 32
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Pete,
Given that the word in question is well-known in its meaning, and that it is used to refer to a situation or object, rather than just blatant expression of anger, I believe that it you would be perfectly justified in its usage when it is necessary. Of all of the posts I've read of yours ( an damn, there are a lot of 'em), your writing always seems to be honest, and your real thoughts. T'Hell with 'em all man, if its a clusterf*ck, than its a clusterf*ck, not a clusterfrig or a flustercluck. Sometimes there's just one word that gets the point across, so, like, what's da big deal dere eh?
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bsignorelli
Nov 16, 2003, 11:09 PM
Post #37 of 62
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Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 415
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Spell it out in all its glory. Nothing quite captures what that word means and any substitution just looks/sounds silly.
Bryan
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mike_ok
Nov 16, 2003, 11:11 PM
Post #38 of 62
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Registered: Feb 21, 2003
Posts: 345
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In reply to: hasn't anyone thought about the CHILDREN!?!?!!!
Such a good episode...
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tweek
Nov 17, 2003, 12:07 AM
Post #39 of 62
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Registered: Sep 27, 2003
Posts: 171
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Agree with the anything but "frig"
I do think that it may offend some people and lessen the impact of your article. I have no doubt that if you do use the word in its entirety the magazine will get letters of complaints.
My personal vote would be clusterf with the censored being a slightly diagonal banner in red or yellow.
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renobdarb
Nov 17, 2003, 12:13 AM
Post #40 of 62
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Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 393
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use the actual spelling... if they're willing to print it, then go to town...
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soma
Nov 17, 2003, 4:16 AM
Post #41 of 62
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Registered: Jun 9, 2003
Posts: 155
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Is it in the dictionary?? Just joking. :D
Just f ucking use it. It's just a word and a popular one.
Dave
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andypro
Nov 17, 2003, 4:25 AM
Post #42 of 62
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Registered: Aug 23, 2003
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In reply to: In one of the mainstream climbing mags recently, I read a feature article that used the F-word in several places. And while this is precisely the sort of talk that regular climbers use, I'll confess it surprised me to see it in print. I wasn't offended, just surprised. It gave the article an earthy feeling.
If this is the article I'm thinking of, I didn't even really think about the F word being in it until just now. I really enjoyed the article and didn't think the language detracted to it at all. In reading the enxt issues letters, there was one woman who was extreemely offended at the "nudie pictures" on the wall of the tent (if were thinking of the same article), but nobody ever wrote to complain about the language in the article itself.
With this in mind, and my own preference, I say use the proper spelling. I dont mind, and dont know anyone who would.
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indigo_nite
Nov 17, 2003, 4:29 AM
Post #43 of 62
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Registered: Mar 3, 2002
Posts: 365
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I might be part of an audience that magazines impose cussing censorship for. I mainly do not cuss in my everyday talk and mostly when people cuss around me I find it funny but for my own speech, I find it to be a little bit harsh-sounding. Sometimes I do cuss while falling off a route.
I think "clusterf*ck" or the real word sounds ok. I think "clusterfrig" just sounds wrong. That last option sounds like you're trying too hard to be polite.
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arrrghjp
Nov 17, 2003, 4:32 AM
Post #44 of 62
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Registered: Dec 7, 2002
Posts: 68
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My vote is for the word in its full spelling. Might not be pleasant for some to see, however it is far more unpleasant for me to see someone bowing to the pressures of censureship.
For what its worth, I have two 5yr old boys and a six yr old girl, it would be far easier for me to explain "potty mouth" vs. an asterick & freedom of speech.
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addiroids
Nov 17, 2003, 4:34 AM
Post #45 of 62
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Registered: Oct 11, 2001
Posts: 1046
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I say use the entire word. Bleeping is one thing, but substituting with "frig" is really stupid.
Like, would you say,
"I frigged the frigging stuffing out of my blowup frigslave Helga on the last night on the wall."?
I think not. Also, about children. Don't be so naive. Kids hear this stuff in the 3rd grade.
And what in the world are YOU letting your children read about AIDS climbing anyways?!?!? That alone is worse than any swear word around.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
If you piss yourself, it was either a good day of climbing, or a good night of drinking.
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passthepitonspete
Nov 17, 2003, 4:36 AM
Post #46 of 62
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Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
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moved to top of next page
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andypro
Nov 17, 2003, 4:51 AM
Post #48 of 62
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Registered: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 1077
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In reply to: But to write "clusterf uck" leaves me open to legitimate criticism, and is this a wise move when I'm still kinda new?
Absolutely. Do you want to be pegged as the person who built a fanbase based on one line, and used that base to switch to another line? I say guage the response and go from there, but dont give them nothing to respond to.
Edit: You spend alot of time convincing people your not a fake. Dont go being a hippocryte :wink:
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gunked
Nov 17, 2003, 4:52 AM
Post #49 of 62
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Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 615
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Dr Pee'd on,
Writing is about communication. Censorship is about lack of communication.
Words in all their ugliness, and therefore, beauty are your tools. Use them as your heart tells you to. Your readers are ALL smart enough to realize the difference between unnecessary use of "loaded" terms to get a point across and a socially unacceptable word used to convey a feeling.
I trust your judgement as I trust everybody (Yes, especially children) to listen to and filter that information for themselves. Trust them so they can learn to become trustworthy.
Thank you Dr. Piton and F-U-C-K Censorship! :wink:
Jason :D
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squish
Nov 17, 2003, 4:57 AM
Post #50 of 62
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Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 470
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It's a good word. It aptly describes a cascading or systemic problem: a grouping of seemingly minor errors put together in a combination that leaves you, well, buggered.
If you decide to use it, don't dress it up with asterisks, hyphens or spoonerisms. That just draws unnecessary attention to the word on the page.
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