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johnooo
Feb 3, 2004, 6:15 PM
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Hey, My friend and I go to Sport Rock 2 in Alexandria, its a chain of three facilities, and i was wondering if anyone knows what 2 knots we need to know for the Belayor test and where we can find how to do it, right now we are forced to use the Auto Belayor untill we get the Belayor test.
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taino
Feb 3, 2004, 6:18 PM
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Probably the re-threaded figure-8 (or figure-8 follow-thru) and the double fisherman's.
However, since I don't know for sure - have you tried asking the staff, for both the information and instruction? That's probably your safest, and best, bet.
T
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tucsonalex
Feb 3, 2004, 6:26 PM
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Probably the figure 8 and double fisherman's.
Or you could take this class I found on their web site.
http://www.sportrock.com/about/
In reply to: Basic Skills Never climbed before? Our basic skills class teaches novices the essential safety skills needed in order to climb at a Sportrock facility. Upon completion of this class, students will be able to properly put on a harness, tie into the rope and belay for a partner. A "must-have" class for new climbers! When are the Basic Skills Classes Offered: The schedule is the same in all three gyms: Monday 7:00 - 9:00 PM Friday 7:00 - 9:00 PM Saturday 12 noon - 2:00 PM and 3:00 - 5:00 PM Sunday 12 noon - 2:00 PM and 3:00 - 5:00 PM Call us to schedule a class! 703-212-7625! Price: $35 Other Information: Minimum age is 14 years old. All gear is provided. Advanced registration and payment is required for all classes. A Sportrock waiver is required for all participants. All participants under 18 years old must have a Sportrock waiver signed by their parent. |
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billcoe_
Feb 3, 2004, 8:48 PM
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I'd ask them.
Unless they are refusing to answer the question. Then tie a granny knot 3 different ways and see if that might loosen them up some.
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j_ung
Feb 3, 2004, 9:01 PM
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I used to manage SR2 in Alexandria, once apon a time. You need a figure-8 retrace and a back-up knot (probably half a dbl fisherman's).
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fiend
Feb 3, 2004, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: Or you could take this class I found on their web site. http://www.sportrock.com/about/
I think that maybe tucsonalex meant that you should take that class.
If you don't know those knots then maybe you shouldn't be belaying?
It's a miracle that more people don't die at climbing gyms considering how half-assed so many of them teach and test.
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scubasnyder
Feb 3, 2004, 9:20 PM
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call the place up and ask them
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 10:02 PM
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why in the world would you need to to know a double fishermans knot to belay someone?
figure 8 is obvious
I think the second one is a nice bow in your climbing shoes.
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 10:11 PM
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now if you are belaying outside - on trad (or sport with no one else around)
mariners, prusik, mutner, mutner mule (or similar) are all must knows.
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 10:23 PM
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actually these are all ones that will help you get untied (escaping a belay)!
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allarounder
Feb 3, 2004, 10:23 PM
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"mutner"??? You're kidding, right?
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 10:26 PM
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well, if we dropped/lost our belay device - I sure hope so
allrounder - sounds like you better stick with the bow tie
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allarounder
Feb 3, 2004, 10:27 PM
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It's "munter," ace. Last time I checked.
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 10:28 PM
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egg on face,
ummm yea, that one
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fiend
Feb 3, 2004, 10:41 PM
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Muenter actually ;)
In reply to: why in the world would you need to to know a double fishermans knot to belay someone?
This is the accepted safety knot at most climbing gyms.
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tucsonalex
Feb 3, 2004, 10:43 PM
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In reply to: why in the world would you need to to know a double fishermans knot to belay someone?
Lots of gyms require that you use the double fisherman's knot when you tie in as a back-up to your figure 8 knot.
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holdplease2
Feb 3, 2004, 10:49 PM
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Hey Chad:
Probably the 1/2 fishermans knot which is a common "backup" for the Figure 8.
Hope you are well.
-Kate.
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brianinslc
Feb 3, 2004, 10:51 PM
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I'd guess the two you need to know are the rethreaded figure eight and either a half hitch or half a grapevine (double fisherman's) used to secure the end of the rope following your tie in via a rethreaded figure eight.
Worth learning the double bowline with yosemite finish just to cornfuse them...
In reply to: now if you are belaying outside - on trad (or sport with no one else around) mariners, prusik, mutner, mutner mule (or similar) are all must knows.
Hmm....I think most folk would benefit more from knowing a few more of the basic knots prior to learning a Mariner's knot. And, really, when was the last time anyone at the crags, trad or sport, belayed their partner with an italian hitch?
Clove hitch, tape knot, double fisherman's, in-line overhand, figure eight on a bite...all might be "must knows" prior to a "munter mule"...
Learning how to escape a belay is good stuff....but...won't be practical for most folks with a munter mule, since most folks don't belay with it. And, I think there's better than a mariner's to release a loaded rope.
Best to have a small but practical toolbox.
Brian in SLC
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 11:12 PM
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brianinslc wrote:
In reply to: Learning how to escape a belay is good stuff....but...won't be practical for most folks with a munter mule, since most folks don't belay with it. And, I think there's better than a mariner's to release a loaded rope. Best to have a small but practical toolbox.
munter is not on the belay, you use it after escaping to tie the lead back into the anchor - so as not to leave the lead hanging on the prusik. This allows you to later transfer the load back to belay (or something else).
small and practical toolbox - yes - give me one regular length sling and one 6" (or longer) prusik loop and I can escape a belay, I always carry this prusik tied up to an oval that has a tibloc tethered to it. This small tool box, with the additional regular length sling will also allow me to do a leader rescue after escaping the belay.
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 11:25 PM
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Kate,
yea, I think your right (or half hitch or half grape vine etc).
I would like to see someone tie a double fishermans backup knot! That would be a trick.
Chad
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brianinslc
Feb 3, 2004, 11:29 PM
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In reply to: small and practical toolbox - yes - give me one regular length sling and one 6" (or longer) prusik loop and I can escape a belay, I always carry this prusik tied up to an oval that has a tibloc tethered to it. This small tool box, with the additional regular length sling will also allow me to do a leader rescue after escaping the belay.
Excellant! Me too...now if we could only edjumacate these kids a bit...
Its a hard thing to know for most folks, I'm thinking. Even after practise, I'd bet a fair number of folk would have a hard time putting into practise. Too much to ask? I'd hope not, but, practically speaking, maybe...
Tibloc, ick. I rigged a Z and used a tibloc. Shredded me rope. I think if I felt like I had to carry a micro ascender, I'd carry a ropeman.
I likes the BW rabbit runners (Titan runner). Gimme one of them over a should length sling. All sorts of tricks. French braid is awesome for descending a loaded line.
Maybe a cell phone is the best gear to carry...heavy sigh...
Another point, back to the thread...belayer test... Most gyms seem to teach (or at least I see this) sliding the brake hand back by bringing the end of the rope up and parallel (next) to the "live" strand...this always makes me nervious...I like to see that brake hand back and the strands separated in case of a sudden load...you know, like a leader fall... Anyone else notice this?
Brian in SLC
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timpanogos
Feb 3, 2004, 11:40 PM
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Brian,
I'm not familiar with "titan runner" web search shows up with some para-gliding runners -
I've also never seen anything on the "French Braid"
I can see that being able to descend a loaded line (without being able to hookup your atc/grigri or whatever) as a good thing to know.
got a link for me?
Chad
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brianinslc
Feb 4, 2004, 3:44 PM
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In reply to: I'm not familiar with "titan runner" web search shows up with some para-gliding runners - I've also never seen anything on the "French Braid" I can see that being able to descend a loaded line (without being able to hookup your atc/grigri or whatever) as a good thing to know. got a link for me?
Try Bluewater's website:
http://www.bluewaterropes.com
Then go to webbing, click on "runners". The one I like are rabbit runners made from the "Titan" spectra webbing. Easy to configure a "french braid" with a rabbit runner.
Aka "valdotain". Basicially a rabbit runner with an overhand or figure eight bite in the middle. Can also make from an old climbing rope (some guides pull one or two strands of the kernmantle out, to make it softer). Tie a clip in loop in the middle, one on each end.
French braid is just the looped ends woven around a rope. Easy to move when loaded. Easy to move when unloaded.
Brian in SLC
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mm
Feb 4, 2004, 8:18 PM
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Id ask someone at the gym what knots you need to know.
Its best to learn as many knots as you can anyway if you are thinking of getting into climbing.
Good luck :D
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