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zozo
Feb 26, 2004, 12:36 PM
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No idea where to post this, mods move it as you see fit.
Does anyone out there have any experience shooting proffesional level climbing? Id be very interested to hear how you handled things like rigging, techniques, do you use a small steady cam, nat sound, additional lighting that sort of stuff. I plan on using an XL1with a standard boom, is there a better choice?
Thanks all!
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zozo
Feb 26, 2004, 1:44 PM
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In reply to: Does anyone out there have any experience shooting proffesional level climbing?
Sorry, I mean shooting professional level video of climbers.
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dr_caligari
Feb 26, 2004, 1:59 PM
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Hey Zozo,
I might be able to help you out. I'm a cinematographer(35mm) but started with DV. There's a lot of tight things you can do with a DVcam that you can't do with 35mm. One of the coolest things is that fact that, if it is sunny enough, you dont really need to rely on artificial lighting. most DV cameras have great lowlighting and the XL1 is one of them. If you get the chance to check out other cameras I go look at the brand new Panasonic AG-DVX100. This camera has the capability of shooting progressive rather than interlaced, in laymans terms it technically shoots better resolution, progressive is what the PAL cameras shoot, and we all love PAL. Anyway it also can be shot in a 24P mode, which shots 24 frames per second, rather than video's 30 frames. This gives it more of a cinema look. I've also noticed it crushes the greens that make video kinda ugly. Anyway hope this helps man, if you have any more questions PM me. I love to talk cinema!!
PS you can never go wrong with a glidecam/steadicam unit.
-Matt
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fitzontherocks
Feb 26, 2004, 2:25 PM
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We shot some climbing for use in tourism TV spots back in the summer. We used a Sony 24p cam mounted on about a 30' jib arm. The jib allowed us to get super-close to the climber, and then tilt up and pan out over the valley and show the scenery surrounding the crag. We actually hired a bunch of local football players to lug the jib and its accompanying counterweights up the approach to the crag. (The assembled rig weighs about half a ton.) Shot all natural light, with maybe some bounce from shiny boards. Shot MOS, since the spots are voice over-ed. Our talent was Chad, the route setter at Horseshoe Canyon Ranch. Luckily, he's an animal, because he had to run up a burly 5.12 over and over and over again while we got the moves worked out. He climbed for a good 3 hours while we did take after take. If you want more info, PM me and I can put you in touch with the DP.
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zozo
Feb 27, 2004, 2:43 AM
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I want to get some really bizarre angle shots. Stuff you dont see on the normal climbing video, I was thinking of rigging cameras to the rock and using lipsticks and stuff like that.
Thanks for your input I will be pm'ing you both to pick your brains some more.
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 27, 2004, 3:40 AM
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Instead of a new thread i thot i would ask on this one.
The camera i have is by no means pro, but i would like to make as best a video as i can its a Sony Handycam with nightshot High 8. Anyways what i would like to ask is this.
Best way to use it for good shots maybe some basic low cost equipment you can advise for helping with shots ect. Also good editing software to buy taht is itermediate to expert yet simple to learn. I would like some basic info on how to move my videos to dvd, so the software is the main thing, and how to use my camera effectivly till i can buy a newer better camera in the 1000 range. Also when i look for a new camera is the DVI cams worth it?
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tyify
Feb 27, 2004, 4:52 AM
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Not sure on the cost of these cameras but they are in the $1000 range: Optura and Elura...Nice cameras. For intermediate software I'd suggest Pinnacle with DVD output capability's...The DV cameras are very nice. ON the expert side of video editing I'd go with preimere pro ($700). If you plan on doing anything semi-pro or profesional I'd suggest you upgrade that camera to a GL2...Depends on how into it you are...I've spent about $5000 thus far starting my video production buisness and still have mucho amounts of stuff to buy...
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 27, 2004, 7:28 AM
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Thanks for your input i was expecting it to cost alot but i was hoping to produce some ok stuff with a small investment was why i asked. Dang sounds like im gona have to look into it for the long haul lol.. What about Adobe Premiere pro C, i am not sure what that is i noticed it listed at hastings for like 40 bucks while i was cheking on the pro for yah 100+ i figured price lol.
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zozo
Feb 27, 2004, 12:32 PM
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If your going to spend close to a grand pn editing software I would spend a little more and go straight into an AVID DV, AVID Xpress. Iv'e seen the software got for around 1,200 dollars and its by far a better and more stable editing system then adobe( wich I do like however for desktop editing). Then if you decide to go more high end you are already familiar with the interface. I have had terrible experiences with everything Pinnacle has made, be ready for your sysytems to lock up every half hour.
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zozo
Feb 27, 2004, 12:49 PM
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In reply to: This camera has the capability of shooting progressive rather than interlaced, in laymans terms it technically shoots better resolution, progressive is what the PAL cameras shoot, and we all love PAL. -Matt
PAL and Progressive scan are not the same thing thought correct? Progressive is still NTSC?
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aarong
Feb 27, 2004, 1:59 PM
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Finally - a decent post about video production.
I've been using Adobe Premiere for a while and it works great but I am ready to get rid of my windows system. I'm going with an Apple G5 system and Final Cut Pro 4 along with DV Studio Pro. It's by no means the cheapest - but for the price - it will be very professional and stable. Sure - there's lots of editing systems out there and they all seem to be getting better and better but Apple's got a great reputation for stability and quality video production software and systems.
Camera wise I like the Sony DSR-PD150P (3-CCD Mini DVCAM) and the Sony DSR-PDX10 - they are smaller than the XL-1 so easier to handle and lighter when mounted to a boom. The quality is outstanding and for climbing shoots it's easier to handle these cameras (especially if you are hanging from a rope) over the XL-1. Ok - the XL-1 looks way cooler and it does have more options on interchangable lens. If you haven't yet - check out bhphotovideo.com they have tons of equipment.
Even with the cheapest of the miniDV cams out there you can still shoot an ok video (picture). I think one of the biggest problems with the consumer level cams is the sound quality. Pro level cameras have much better sound quality.
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zozo
Feb 27, 2004, 2:12 PM
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Ive never used Final Cut but some friends who are pros swear by it - have even gone from AVID to Final Cut. I have about 10,000 dollars worth of windows software so I wont be switching unless they come out with a windows version.
I will look into that camera you suggested, but I can get an xl1 for free. Im kinda thinking of starting a production company that would hook up with guide services, have had some interest from some river runners. Trying to make numbers work and stuff like that.
I might like to see a forum for this, I looked at the photography forum but they wont take any new members? :evil: What the hell is that all about?
aarong - just checked out your site - nice!!
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aarong
Feb 27, 2004, 3:13 PM
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That's cool - can't go wrong with anything that's free - especially an XL-1.
I'm lucky too - here at work they are sending me to training at the Edit Center in NYC for Final Cut Pro editing. Can't wait. Also, should be getting my new system soon.
Thanks for the compliment on my site - still have some work to do but it's moving along. I love film/video nearly as much as climbing so I'm headed in the direction of combining them.
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dr_caligari
Feb 27, 2004, 4:24 PM
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No PAL and progressive are different. NTSC is the standard the USA uses. Which can be progressive, but if shot in DV is mostly Interlaced. Progressive is the standard for PAL but can also get interlaced. it gets complicated in this area.
-Matt
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 27, 2004, 10:05 PM
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ZOZO if your in any way unsure about that Camera your gona get free...
LET ME KNOW ILL PAY SHIPPING ON IT, you can give it to me lol... I have no problem with it being free lol.... im to dam poor right now to even look at that cam.
Thanks all for the posts nice to have some good input for once.
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zozo
Feb 28, 2004, 1:36 AM
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I get to USE it for free. Man dont I wish I could get ahold of a free XL1. If I get my hands on some free cameras I will definetly share the wealth! :D
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 28, 2004, 1:41 AM
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LOL cool man well im gona play around with my handycam to see if i can pull off some good footage ya never know what may happen but it will be a while before i get it made digital.
I am still looking around and desiding on my way to get it on my pc, thinking i will end up using a pinacle setup since its in a good price range and i hear unless you got a bomber system that a video input card is not the way to do right now. And being a tech i have researched them alot.
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sharpender
Feb 28, 2004, 1:59 AM
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zozo:
I have to agree with vertical rockrat. Pinnacle is not worth the money, at least on the low end where you would be getting in. I bought one of there cards with edit software and the quality of transfer was poor, had problems with dropped frames and the edit software was total junk. I have worked on Premiere and for where you are at it would be an excellent program. You might want to look at Sony's Vegas Video - formerly Sonic Foundry. You can get the Adobe - industry standard editing, for about a grand or even less if you are a student. Actually way less. If you are going to be strictly in the DV format and that fits you (student) I would go for it. Check out videoguys.com. They will provide you reviews and prices all kinds of systems. Look for the Specialty Video Supply website if you are a student.
Pal is not progressive. It is the European video format. It runs at 25 frames a second rather than the 30 frame NTSC American format. Both are interlace. It is technical video specs. You should get some books and read up if you are going to do this. Your xl1 should be NTSC 30 frame, which means interlace miniDV. Make sure, cause if they give you a pal camera the footage won't work with your edit software. Lastly, if you are going to record sound in the field, see if you can get a mixer that takes XLR mics and get a good microphone (shotgun is best) or determine if your xl1 is set up for XLR. Good luck. One last thing. Plan what your going to shoot before you go shoot it. Otherwise you will waste a lot of time and energy to get very little good stuff.
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zozo
Feb 28, 2004, 3:00 AM
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Yeah Pinnacle sucks, please dont spend money on that stuff. I guess their MPEG2 encoder is ok, just started using it for some DVD projects. We were trying to cut a 1/2 hour documentary with Pinnacle running Adobe Premiere and it was dropping frames, the title tool would crash the system, the whole thing just sucked, we started all over with an an AVID Xpress and had no problems at all.
Client wasnt to thrilled :twisted:
Im going to pm a moderator of the photography forum to see if maybe we could start a videography / editing /post production thread there or something.
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 29, 2004, 10:45 PM
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Cool thanks for all the posts but since i hear pinacle sucks then what about the hardware they make for pumping the video in via usb or firewire. The converter since right now im gona be using my sony handycam? is it ok to use or what, i have heard mixed remarks on video cards vs stand alone hardware most say stand alone is better but having no experiance with either i am taking all advice i can.
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vertical-rockrat
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Feb 29, 2004, 10:54 PM
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oh and btw wonder if it would be worth someone starting a poll about adding a Videography forum to the site where tehy got the photo one at?! that would be nice to start one for all this info we are dishing out lol make it start with sections like Equipment, Hardware, Software, ect lol...
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philbox
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Mar 1, 2004, 4:38 AM
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philbox moved this thread from General to Climbing Photography.
Edit to say that I moved this thread to this forum in consultation with the original poster. Great thread too I might add.
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vertical-rockrat
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Mar 1, 2004, 7:43 AM
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problem problem big ass problem...
i dont have access to that forum so now the remarks to the thread are unseen by me.
how to remedy this i do not know however its up to the rest what they want to do from here.
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zozo
Mar 1, 2004, 12:58 PM
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This thread now lives in the Climbing Photography forum, not the critique forum that is locked but the open one. It seemed logical because the two are related and both communities can help one another out.
I guess the idea is to keep this as an ongoing thread like the MASS climbers thread, for all questions related to videography, editing, post production, business issues ect. ect.
I used to shoot for news but since then I have lived in the editng and post world and Im looking forward to picking the brains of some talented out door videographers and in that vein.....
Whats the best way to shoot snow without blowing out and sillouetting? I know there are filters, but will those do the job on a very bright day?
Maybe if there is enough traffic we could get our own forum.
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todddarling
Mar 2, 2004, 5:51 AM
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I work in video editing and use Avid Adrenalines and DS at work but at home I have MACs So I use Final Cut pro. The best thing about final cut is the lower cost (from avid) and the Live type options make animated lower thirds and titles really easy and cool. I use it for lower budget productions (kinda feel like I'm cheating) I use After effects for the higher budget stuff. I have a GL-1 for my personal camera and I think I'm going to be shooting some climbing at a local spot this summer.
I've really enjoyed readiing this Thread!
Just thought I'd put in my two cents.
Todd
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