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climbsomething
May 26, 2004, 10:10 PM
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What part of "calm the fuck down" is escaping so many people in this thread?
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ullr
May 26, 2004, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: What part of "calm the f--- down" is escaping so many people in this thread?
Thank you.
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climb_plastic
May 26, 2004, 10:12 PM
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In reply to: .....perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
I've seen him climb and he's as good as I thought he was...everybody else that's seen him climb says he's as good as they thought he was. Maybe he's better than you think.
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meataxe
May 26, 2004, 10:22 PM
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I'm struggling to find a way that the grade of Realization might affect my life in a positive way.
Can anyone help?
:?
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vegastradguy
May 26, 2004, 10:52 PM
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how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
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moeman
May 26, 2004, 10:58 PM
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In reply to: how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
You seem to have forgotten that we are a bunch of gossipy old women.
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coldclimb
May 26, 2004, 11:01 PM
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Was there ever a legitimate source for the claim that the route was downgraded? I haven't seen one yet, so I'm just curious... :?
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tedc
May 26, 2004, 11:10 PM
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In reply to: how the hell did this get 4 pages worth of replies? :roll:
We are AMERICANS. We are SPORTS fans. We NEED heros. We aren't CLIMBERS.
rc.com moto.
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deafears
May 26, 2004, 11:33 PM
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I, for one, am interested in standard-setting achievements like Sharma's, and now Millet's. I am interested when a top climber opens a candidate for the world's hardest route.
I am not, however, interested in jingoistic anti-American, pro-American or any other form of nationalistic babble from petty voices in cyberspace (assuming that isn't everything that's ever been written on the Internet).
Nice job on the repeat ... a repeat is always much easier than establishing a first ascent, but Millet is an awesome climber and I'm sure he is not the one talking trash.
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yosemite
May 27, 2004, 12:03 AM
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This thread is the reason why I have done very well on my investment in the stock of the makers of Prozac.
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fiend
May 27, 2004, 12:37 AM
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Sheesh, we all know that downgrading is the fashionable thing to do. Let them have their fun...
It takes a few ascents before a concensus is reached and Realization has only seen two ascents... only one of which proposed a grade. Sharma says "dude, it was way rad... pass the bong", Millet coughs smoke out and says, "dude, it was way hard but I dunno why everyone says 15a... it didn't feel any harder than Hugh, but maybe that's just me."
Now we have to wait for someone else to send it and give a possible grade. After this happens a couple of times then Mick Ryan, new head of the Ceuse Grading Commision, can come and give it an official downgrading because some relatively unknown Italian came and flashed it.
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rokon
May 27, 2004, 12:55 AM
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Yeah, Dirtbag is right
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james_climber
May 27, 2004, 1:34 AM
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In reply to: so, the long awaited repeat of "the worlds first 15a" (according to the US press) has happened. Sylvain Millet has sent Realization, and downgraded it. to 9a. he claims that Biographie is likely only 8c, and it only took him 2 weeks to send Realization, and does not feel it is 15a. It took Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
1.- is there a video ????¿¿¿ , i visited the page and i didnt see anything
2.- sharma didnt say its a 9a+(5.15a) the press said that and , he just said yeah¡¡¡¡
3.-sharma was 2 seasons not 2 years , he wasnt living at the crag
ive been in mexico with cris and 4 me is still the best
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catbiter
May 27, 2004, 2:00 AM
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You grade munchers! :D
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climbingfreak
May 27, 2004, 2:11 AM
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Sharma is an incredible climber so is Millet but I question his true motives. Is this a bid to draw critiscm on to the 'god like' Sharma and attract sponsorship bids. Whatever it may be Sharma in my mind is the world's best and his route Realization is still 15a.
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alpnclmbr1
May 27, 2004, 2:28 AM
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In reply to: so, the long awaited repeat of "the worlds first 15a" (according to the US press) has happened. Sylvain Millet has sent Realization, and downgraded it. to 9a. he claims that Biographie is likely only 8c, and it only took him 2 weeks to send Realization, and does not feel it is 15a. It took Sharma 2 years of attempts and countless falls at the upper crux, so he called it 15a, perhaps Chris is just not as good as North America thinks he is?
As far as I can tell this and the title of this thread is a outright lie.
In reply to: (climbing) Monday 29 Septembre 2003 at 11. 34 Rumours It would seem that Patxi Usobiaga made "Realization" and that Sylvain Millet would not be very far from making in the same way. Information to be followed... on Kairn.com |
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sully264
May 27, 2004, 3:35 AM
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I don't get why you all care what some ridiculusly hard climb is rated. I'm just happy for sharma and Millet because they both sent one of the most difficult routes in the world.
Making this into some talk about nationalism and antiamericanism and downgrading ratings at difficulties that none of us will ever get neer is really dumb. Pass the bong.
Sully
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crux_clipper
May 27, 2004, 8:11 AM
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I met a guy while bouldering in NZ, who had spent some time with Dave Graham in Spain a few months prior. When i asked him whether dave gave any comments on Realization (i knew that he had tried it) he said that whil all the moves were possible, on their own, to link the entire thing seemed impossible to him. Obviously it wasn't THAT impossible, but its gotta be nails if thats Daves idea of the route.
yep, a top effort by Millet, all the congratulations much deserved!
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rokon
May 27, 2004, 3:34 PM
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Who the hell cares, in sport climbing there aren't any ethics anyways, Sharma did it first, plain and simple, all the rest is bs
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cliffhunger
May 27, 2004, 4:35 PM
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Whoever posted this thread, you are clearly misinformed.
I have been hearing about Sylvain's work on Realization for quite a while, and am not surprised that he bagged the second ascent, he might as well have bagged the first, at the time Chris was working on it!
Biographie was first ascended in 1996 (by Arnaud Petit), and repeated by Chris the same year, and since Sylvain has the second ascent, that means he also sent in 1996. He has been doing burns in the lower part for quite a while, then.
I would be very surprised to hear that he personally "downgraded" the route, as he has sent virtually every hard route in Ceüse, and knows this one is harder that the others. Since there are no other routes harder than 8c+ there, rating Realization 9a would only be in the line of upping the ante at the crag, if Sylvain's experience of hard redpoints is mostly at Ceüse. You should see this as an honest guess based on his experience, not a slag on the route's difficulty.
I remember hearing that Sylvain was already pretty solid in walking the lower part when Chris was doing his last trips (before the FA), the guy would skip up to 3 bolts in a row to save energy for the crux.
If he said the lower part is only 8c, please remember he wasn't the only one to suggest so. Biographie has been called soft 8c+ many times, and being able to send it consistantly for 8 years might help you believe it's actually easier.
As for other hard ascents, you should all also get informed before you start slagging. Most of them weren't posted by poseurs, and people made them whoppers where the actual climber almost never uttered a word.
Realization: Chris just sent. No comments. Simple, no?
Orujo/Chilam Balam: Bernabé has a record of doubtful ascents and chipping practices, but may still have sent those.
Akira: long story...
La Rambla: no doubt on the ascent, and Ramonet certainly has the credentials to send that hard.
Daï's recent bouldering feats... no reason to doubt them, he walked every problem in that cave before working the full link. He reportedly can do a one-finger pullup on an half-pad edge. Need more?
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sully264
May 27, 2004, 10:58 PM
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I don't get why you all care what some ridiculusly hard climb is rated. I'm just happy for sharma and Millet because they both sent one of the most difficult routes in the world.
Making this into some talk about nationalism and antiamericanism and downgrading ratings at difficulties that none of us will ever get neer is really dumb. Pass the bong.
Sully
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wallwombat
May 28, 2004, 12:23 AM
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I just read all five pages of that spew. I feel like part of my life was stolen.
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andy_reagan
May 28, 2004, 12:37 PM
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it was.
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bustloose
May 28, 2004, 1:53 PM
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possibly one of the more successfull trolls in recent history.
no, Millet has not donwgraded Realization. Yes, Ceuse is his home crag and he has spent a fair bit of time on Realization. Yes, a fantastic send of an obviously hard route, does not take away from Chris' FA in the least.
what IS interesting, however, is the blatant hypocrisy that was displayed here. If Millet had sent a new line up there, or anywhere, then you all would have said it was full of shit, and that he knows not what he is speaking of, some 'unknown' climber making a big claim for sponsorship. Just cause YOU haven't heard of him does not make him unknown. When Chris sent Realization, he had not sent enough 9a's to give him credibility, except in the eyes of the American climbing public. This is by no means disrespectful to Sharma, it's disrespectfull to all of you. So quick to judge those that are not part of your small minded little worlds.
In reply to: Whatever it may be Sharma in my mind is the world's best
thanks for making this an enjoyable read, and maybe, just maybe, one or two of you will think twice about some of the points i made. but more likely you will all call me nasty names and forget anything that was said here by the time lunch rolls around.
phil.
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jipstyle
May 28, 2004, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: This forum is hypocritical.
This argument has been presented several times in this thread, and it is really starting to annoy me. A forum can not be hypocritical. A hypocrite is a person, and I hope you will agree that a forum is not a person.
This forum is a collection of people; these are people who have varying opinions. It is quite true that people on this forum have cast doubt upon FAs of cutting-edge routes and problems (though, interestingly, only in the sport and bouldering world ... ). It is also true that people on this forum have defended Sharma when his grades (which aren't really his, since he rarely proposes a grade for his FAs) are questioned. These two facts do not make a forum 'hypocritical' ... which is an impossibility ... rather, they illustrate the variety of opinions held by the members of this forum.
It is a GOOD thing.
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