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justus
Oct 7, 2004, 9:11 PM
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There's a lot of talk about how gaining better technique can make you appear stronger and make you (obviously) a better climber.
In reply to: ...Many of my fellow Americans were agog at hoe strong they were. Personally, I felt I knew many boulderers whose fingers and arms were just as strong. What blew me away was how precisely these Euros used their feet.
So says John Sherman in Better Bouldering
I was sorely dissapointed to find out that in the TECHNIQUE and training forum almost all of the posts were on strength training.
can anyone help me out with some advanced techniques that would help not need to be quite so strong quite so soon?
Here's one: Keep your hips in close to the rock to keep weight over your feet. Think Hips!
Thanks for any help,
Justus
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slablizard
Oct 7, 2004, 9:31 PM
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humm.
Position your feet with precision, using possibly the point or the point-side of the shoe. DOn't scratch them on the rock, go from one foot hold to another.
turn your body following the holds you're using, turn sidewais if you have. Use your feet sideways too. You can lieback on a sidepull crimp.
breath with your stomach
shake your calves too from time to time.
Shake your forearm after every lock.
Go at a constant speed and rest wherever you can
Chalk before a move and then committ, don't stop halfway in a move to either chalk or clip.
If it's hot, chalk and then blow hard on your fingers.
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sideshow_dan
Oct 7, 2004, 9:58 PM
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I have found that a good way to improve your technique (mainly balance) is slab climbing.
It had made big improvements to my footwork and body position. Hence better balance.
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climb_463
Oct 8, 2004, 12:10 AM
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I'm with fluxus...
It's actually hard to define just with words and picture... You need to watch the flow of the body...
If you want to improve technique, you should look a lot at other climbers of higher levels... That will help you a lot
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greyicewater
Oct 11, 2004, 2:57 PM
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climbing is all physics... learn where your center gravity goes and you'll find your technique getting much better. quiet feet helps too.
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overlord
Oct 11, 2004, 3:12 PM
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concentrate on your footwork. thats the basis.
but "real" technique comes with years. a buddy of mine (climber for sa 10-15 years) just had 3 months of rest and can still crank .13 (in fact i belayed him on one today). and i mean real rock "i cant make a move on it" .13 not gym ".13". he looks really fluid when climbing, the feet dont scrape on the rock, every foothold used to the max... id rather have technique like that than be super strong. you can train strength relatively quickly, but for technique like it takes years.
it takes climbing many different routes, both in and outdoors. mastering the basic positions and moves (like, drop knees, heel hooks etc), placing/using your feet properly is just the begining, then you have to learn balance, how and when to use them etc. and that takes time and lots of different routes.
the best thing you can do is find a climber that has really good technique whose height is similar to yours (no use using the techniques of 6ft5in giant if youre just 5ft tall), climb with them from time to time, observe and try to imitate. anohter good thing (if youre a man) is to climb with women. they tend to have better technique (in fact climbing with women has really helped mine technique).
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euleto
Oct 11, 2004, 3:42 PM
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Well, this is a little off topic, but this is what I would recommend for technique training. (works best indoor)
Find a toprope route thats a few grades below where you max (I climb like 5.11, so I usually find a 9). Climb that route like 8 times in a row. After a few sends, you start to get tired, and cannot possibly muscle through any of the moves, because you are tired. So......you are forced to use technique, and to step into holds, and concerntrate on footwork, simply because your legs probably arent tired, but your arms sure as heck are after 5-6 sends. Dont know if this will work for anyone else, but it has been beneficial for me (and its helping my endurance)
Connor
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anykineclimb
Oct 11, 2004, 4:16 PM
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I agree with the last few guys.
Technique is best taught in person. We can all spout off about moving your hips or quiet feet, but it takes an experienced eye to watch and make corrections.
One thing that really helped me is watching videos. Not Sharma because his footwork is horrible. No really, it is...
But anyway, some of the older videos like Moving over stone or Master of Stone have some good technique in them. One thing that stands out in my mind is some of Peter Croft's free soloing footage.
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andy_reagan
Oct 11, 2004, 8:56 PM
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my two top priorities for developing technique:
1) attempt as many onsights as possible. This means getting to a new area at least once a month, but preferably once every couple weeks. This will force you to climb on different types of rock and different types of problems. In addition, this will keep your "flow state" tuned up and at a high level.
2) attempt to climb with as many different climbers as possible, preferably those who you wish to emulate, in level of difficulty or style.
This has worked pretty good for me so far. I'm seeing steady and consistent gains.
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bandidopeco
Oct 16, 2004, 3:20 PM
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A really good book to read on all aspects of training for climbing is "Performance Rock Climbing" by Dale Goddard and Udo Neuman (sp).
I'll try to give you the jist of what they had to say on technique training. Basically it comes down to developing engrams (muscle memory). By repeating an action it becomes engrained in your muscle's memory, so when you continue to use it you become more efficiant and have to think less. (think learning to ride a bike). Climbing might have the largest range of movements of any sport, so developing engrams is one of the real challenges.
Now, Climbing a route over and over helps develop engrams for that route, but you should realize that you have significantly more dexterity while fresh then when tired, so you should practice difficult movements at the beggining of a training session when you are more able to perform more efficiently. If you try this at the end of a workout you might be developing engrams of sloppy movements, which would reinforce sloppy climbing.
The book goes much deeper into this subject and they are much better writters then I, so if your serious about developing technique I'd highly suggest the purchase.
I hope this was helpfull.
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andy_reagan
Oct 17, 2004, 2:20 PM
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This would suggest that good technique is built around sessions where you aren't flailing or falling much, if at all. I tend to agree with this. If I get out and try to "project" anything, it usually takes me another hour or two of regular climbing to gain back a smooth state.
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sustainedclimber
Oct 17, 2004, 4:16 PM
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From my expereince with bouldering I will have to say that technique (footwork etc.) will help you out just so much. Bouldering is like a sprint as longer climbs are to a long distance run. Think about it this way, if you are trying to do a V2, you won't run into a move that hard on a route until you reach of a level of 5.11. Considering this, I would suggest doing longer "easier" climbs if you want to work on technique. I promise that this will make your climbing more satisfying, and in the long run it will probably improve your technique as well.
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cjsimpso
Jun 12, 2006, 12:21 PM
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I know this is an ancient thread, but I think the discussion is interesting so I'm bringing it back up.
I think that using bouldering to wire a variety of specific moves and move types is invaluable, and I agree that climbing 5 to 10 laps below your max will force you to improve as well. Beyond that, mixing up the types of rock you climb on will force you to expand your comfort zone. The majority of my experience has come on the Argolyte (sp?) of Stover, the Granite of Lincoln Woods, and the Diabase of Central Jersey - and the different challenges of each have helped me keep improving. Of course, as I get stronger, (and maybe one day have a bigger budget) I hope to get to more and more places and keep pushing my personal envelope.
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dirtineye
Jun 12, 2006, 3:50 PM
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You want good footwork, LOL, get yourself a shoudler or arm or hand or elbow injury, which will force you to use your feet as efficiently as possible.
The main reason you can't tell someone how to do it is that they don't believe or listen.
Try climbing something with no hands, on top rope, if you want an education.
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camhead
Jun 12, 2006, 4:25 PM
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the true key to excellent footwork/technique is having really strong fingers.
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sidepull
Jun 12, 2006, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: the true key to excellent footwork/technique is having really strong fingers. Ha ha! |
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jt512
Jun 12, 2006, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: You want good footwork, LOL, get yourself a shoudler or arm or hand or elbow injury, which will force you to use your feet as efficiently as possible. [..] Try climbing something with no hands, on top rope, if you want an education.
Climbing slabs with no hands is a useful exercise, but there is a limit to the extent that it will translate to good footwork on steeper rock. If you want to develop good footwork, buy fluxus's book (The Self-Coached Climber) and become religious about practicing the myriad of movement exercises in the book.
Jay
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juststrange
Jun 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
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one of the exercises used in my area to teach footwork to teams is quiet climbing. Go to the craftstore, rubberband some jingle bells to your shoes, viola. What ive been told is that i should place my foot quietly (in general, no stomping) and place it well enough that i need not move it. My footwork is notably horrible tho (alot of it just doesnt come nature or flow for me)
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collegekid
Jun 14, 2006, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: I was sorely dissapointed to find out that in the TECHNIQUE and training forum almost all of the posts were on strength training. can anyone help me out with some advanced techniques that would help not need to be quite so strong quite so soon?
Training Core strength helps a lot with technique. ;)
I think the best way to build technique is mileadge. Simply becoming more comfortable finding balance and mastering a large number of different movements on different kinds of terrain will improve your technique. Trad/endurance climbing is good for building technique, since it forces you to become more efficient. Traversing in the gym is a good method if you don't have access to long outdoors routes.
Practice keeping your feet on the rock at all times, don't allow yourself to scrape your toes on the way to a hold, and just practice being as precise as possible in every movement that you do (i.e. visualize, execute in one movement).
Also practice deadpointing and dynoing, as these are good techniques for certain situations. Deadpoints can save you a lot of energy (vs. cranking slowly), and if you are good at them, they look really smooth and efficient.
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betameister
Jun 15, 2006, 7:04 AM
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Interesting post, I learned alot of my technique from watching other climbers!
To narrow it down I watch climbers who are shorter than myself..I'm 5.5 so the junior climbing team is great to learn from. Also watching women climb or anyone who has smooth flow. Oh and dont't forget about the slow(calm) quiet climbers.
There's also technique/movement courses that many gyms offer.
Next is just practice and try as many different problems as possible :D
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lazyjammin
Jun 15, 2006, 8:16 AM
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What really helps me with footwork is keeping focus on my feet instead of losing it on the next handhold, it really helps if one can do it instead of just forgetting about them, at least that is my biggest problem with footwork. Good ideas for training it....
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dirtineye
Jun 15, 2006, 11:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You want good footwork, LOL, get yourself a shoudler or arm or hand or elbow injury, which will force you to use your feet as efficiently as possible. [..] Try climbing something with no hands, on top rope, if you want an education. Climbing slabs with no hands is a useful exercise, but there is a limit to the extent that it will translate to good footwork on steeper rock. If you want to develop good footwork, buy fluxus's book (The Self-Coached Climber) and become religious about practicing the myriad of movement exercises in the book. Jay
Balance is still balance. Contact is still contact.
Even on an overhang, the feet still do most of the work, unless you are inefficient.
Relying on your arms n hands as little as possible will work on low angle or overhang.
Once you start seriously thinking about feet and footwork, it's almost silly to attempt to narrowly define what will and won't help with this or that.
The broad principles are the same
I think you need to ice your finger tendons some more?
IF you want to plug flexus' book, just say so. Here, I'll make it easy:
HOW is that book BTW?
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jt512
Jun 15, 2006, 6:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You want good footwork, LOL, get yourself a shoudler or arm or hand or elbow injury, which will force you to use your feet as efficiently as possible. [..] Try climbing something with no hands, on top rope, if you want an education. Climbing slabs with no hands is a useful exercise, but there is a limit to the extent that it will translate to good footwork on steeper rock. If you want to develop good footwork, buy fluxus's book (The Self-Coached Climber) and become religious about practicing the myriad of movement exercises in the book. Jay Balance is still balance.
As I understand it, there is a body of kinesiologic literature that says otherwise.
In reply to: HOW is that book [The Self-Coached Climber] BTW?
Revolutionary.
Jay
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fracture
Jun 15, 2006, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: one of the exercises used in my area to teach footwork to teams is quiet climbing. Go to the craftstore, rubberband some jingle bells to your shoes, viola. What ive been told is that i should place my foot quietly (in general, no stomping) and place it well enough that i need not move it. My footwork is notably horrible tho (alot of it just doesnt come nature or flow for me)
Quiet feet is a good excersize for developing precision in getting your feet on the best part of a hold efficiently and quickly, but putting bells on your shoes will require you to move your feet very slowly to avoid ringing them.
Moving slow and statically is not something you want to be practicing and ingraining in your movement repertoire. On the contrary, when you do the quiet feet excersize, you ideally want to be practicing being both precise and quick with your foot movements. (This may mean you start slow and work up to faster movement.)
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fracture
Jun 15, 2006, 9:34 PM
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In reply to: Interesting post, I learned alot of my technique from watching other climbers!
As fluxus has often pointed out on these forums, it is actually very hard to learn by watching other climbers, especially if you don't really know what you are looking for. In point of fact, many of the things that climbers colloquially describe as "good technique" are actually some of the primary characteristics of inefficient movement.
For example:
In reply to: Oh and dont't forget about the slow(calm) quiet climbers. |
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