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outdoorplayr
Jan 6, 2005, 11:19 PM
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looking for suggestions on cross training for climbing. i used to lift 4 days a week but started noticing that i felt really tired when i would climb. tried to bring my lifting down a bit but have basically cut it out all together now because i am to tired when i get to the climbing gym after lifting the day before. i realize that i am probably going about the whole cross training thing in a bad way because i know that lifting is good for climbers but i am having trouble setting up a schedule from what i know.
right now, this is what my training consists of:
climb: 2-3 days a week
run or skate ski or bicycle: 4-5 days per week
telemark ski: 2-3 times per week
as the weather changes, i will replace the telemarking with another day of climbing.
i would like to add 3 days of lifting to this but am not sure how to go about it. should i lift right after i climb or in between days of climbing? should i lift in the morning and climb in the evening? should i be lifting lighter weight and more reps or heavier weight and less reps?
i apologise if this is redundant to previous threads in the forum but i searched and didn't find anything to answer my questions. also, both of the below titles were mentioned in previous threads. has anyone used them and have any comments? do they have training schedules of any type? i have trained for road biking using a book training program with great success so wondering if either of these books have specific training schedules?
"Climbing: Training for Peak Performace" by Clyde Soles.
"Training for Climbing" by Eric Horst
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davidji
Jan 6, 2005, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: looking for suggestions on cross training for climbing. i used to lift 4 days a week but started noticing that i felt really tired when i would climb. tried to bring my lifting down a bit but have basically cut it out all together now because i am to tired when i get to the climbing gym after lifting the day before. |
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horst
Jan 6, 2005, 11:35 PM
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Dear Outdoorplayr,
There really is no effective "cross training" for climbing. Sure, all that aerobic activity you mention will improve your stamina, but it will have very little positive impact on your climbing ability. Effective training for climbing must be VERY specific to the movements and motions of climbing. Thus, for beginner and intermediate climbers the best training-for-climbing program must center on climbing! Exercises similar to climbing (lat pulldown, pull-ups, hanging knee lifts and such) are beneficial, but ultimately developing technique and mental skills are paramount...and you won't get any of this from aerobics and weight lifting. BTW, some light free weight training of the "push muscles" is beneficial to balance out all the "pull-muscle" training you get while climbing. Keep the weights light, however; a body building-type weight lifting workout (heavy weights, leg presses, etc.) will have negative effects on climbing performance. If you are serious about climbing better buy both Perf. Rock Climbing and Training for Climbing. Good luck, and have fun!
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outdoorplayr
Jan 6, 2005, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: Why not do your weight workout after your rock gym session? Then it won't interfere with the indoor part of your climbing.
tru, but i usually climb hard enough at the gym so as to feel pretty wiped when i'm done so i am wondering if i lift after that, i won't actually gain much from it? i realize that lifting is partially to train the muscles that don't get used as much when climbing but it seems like they aren't going to get much of a workout if my other muscles are completly worn out at the time. i don't know if this is right, just a thought?
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thomaskeefer
Jan 6, 2005, 11:38 PM
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"Climbing: Training for Peak Performace" by Clyde Soles.
Has a specific weights routine.. a few of them, in fact.
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bandidopeco
Jan 6, 2005, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: Dear Outdoorplayr, If you are serious about climbing better buy both Perf. Rock Climbing and Training for Climbing. Good luck, and have fun!
'nuff said
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davidji
Jan 6, 2005, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: should i be lifting lighter weight and more reps or heavier weight and less reps?
From my perspective I get the endurance I need from climbing & cycling (unfortunately it's not entirely true), and I mostly want to build strength in my workout. I do mostly compound exercises, mostly low reps (3-7). Only one set, which isn't optimal for fitness, but is optimal for benefit vs. time spent. I think compound exercises translate more directly than isolation exercises into useful abilities. I also think you can work more of your body in less time with them, which is important to me. A trainer friend of mine who in general prefers compound exercises for climbers, recommended I switch to isolation exercises and more reps for awhile to change things.
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outdoorplayr
Jan 6, 2005, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: Dear Outdoorplayr, Effective training for climbing must be VERY specific to the movements and motions of climbing. Thus, for beginner and intermediate climbers the best training-for-climbing program must center on climbing!
excellent point and thanks for the other tips too. i realize that climbing can best be improved by climbing, but as a female climber i notice that some extra strength, especially upper body, would really be nice. i am trying to focus on gaining some strength because i notice that my technique has surpassed my physical strength. (i've been told that climbing is 1/3 mental, 1/3 technique and 1/3 strength.) so i'm trying to figure out the best way to do that while still climbing with as much energy as possible so i keep up with my technique progression!
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tyson16v
Jan 7, 2005, 12:09 AM
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In reply to: Dear Outdoorplayr, There really is no effective "cross training" for climbing. Sure, all that aerobic activity you mention will improve your stamina, but it will have very little positive impact on your climbing ability. have fun!
i disagree with this. i believe that an active cardio work out defenitely improves your climbing ability. especially on ropes. you need to train your heart. if you cannot keep your heartrate at a certain level and you are not able to recover. you wont be able to climb hard. hard redpoints and onsights rely on being able to recover when pumped. why not train the most important muscle in your body? intervals, and sprint training as well as distance has helped me greatly. although it has put some unwanted weight on my legs. and yes, go buy eric's book, they will get you to a certain point in your climbing, and then you will realize that there is much more that needs to be done to continue to progress at hard climbing. but those two are defenitely a good start.
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scotchie
Jan 7, 2005, 12:41 AM
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How old are you? You could be burning yourself out, especially if you're in your 30's or higher. Try to take 2 rest days a week when you do no heavy workouts (no matter how old you are).
Most of the best climbers I know say they have not noticed any benefit from weightlifting. Personally, I think it helps. But my situation is a little different then yours. I'm not able to climb 3-4 days a week, and I find that doing a lot of pullups at the gym 3 days/week is a lot better than doing nothing during those days.
Good luck.
Scott
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horst
Jan 7, 2005, 12:59 AM
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In reply to: i realize that climbing can best be improved by climbing, but as a female climber i notice that some extra strength, especially upper body, would really be nice. i am trying to focus on gaining some strength because i notice that my technique has surpassed my physical strength. (i've been told that climbing is 1/3 mental, 1/3 technique and 1/3 strength.) so i'm trying to figure out the best way to do that while still climbing with as much energy as possible so i keep up with my technique progression!
I think I recognize that "1/3" stuff from my book. :)
Given the extra data from your post, it does sound like you could benefit from some targeted training such as lock-offs and pull-ups. I've worked with numerous females climbers get who gained a big pop in perform from such training. If you can't do 10 pull-ups, then have a partner help you by lifting at your hips. If you can do 10, then add 10-pounds to your body or use the lat pulldown machine at the gym. Frenchies are another excellent (lock-off) exercise. Your aerobic activity (mentioned early) does help stamina and body composition, however, some climbers invest far too much time on this when their training time could provide bigger payoffs elsewhere. It's all about return on investment.
BTW, you can do some light push-muscle training at the end of your climbing workout. Two sets of shoulders, chest, and reverse wrist curls is all you really need to supplement your climbing/training. Of course, quality rest and nutrition plays a significant role, too.
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davidji
Jan 7, 2005, 1:17 AM
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In reply to: Given the extra data from your post, it does sound like you could benefit from some targeted training such as lock-offs and pull-ups. |
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pepsbandit
Jan 7, 2005, 2:49 AM
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I use a bench technique designed for climbers. I put the bar under the bench, lie with my belly and chest right on the bench and lift the bar up slowly till it touches the bottom of the bench and slowly go down till the bar (weights on the bar) touch the ground, then I bring it back up again etc... I learned of this technique in some Outside mag a few years back, if feels good and I bet it helps a bit.
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emilb
Jan 7, 2005, 3:01 AM
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horst said:
There really is no effective "cross training" for climbing. Sure, all that aerobic activity you mention will improve your stamina, but it will have very little positive impact on your climbing
-----------------------
I have to disagree with this statement. There may not be any direct effect but at least for me there is a strong indirect effect. Specifically the effect on my bodyweight which has a pretty big effect on my climbing ability. Aerobic activity keeps my weight down. It wasn't that much of a problem 10 years ago but if I don't do my running now the pounds go on.
Regards
Emil
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mattb
Jan 10, 2005, 7:53 PM
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Found this freeweight training method that you can use if you have a bench at
the Nicros training section.
You have to credit the Soviets for finding a way to train everything with weights.http://www.nicros.com/...y-finger-rolls.shtml
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billcoe_
Jan 10, 2005, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: Found this freeweight training method that you can use if you have a bench at the Nicros training section. You have to credit the Soviets for finding a way to train everything with weights. http://www.nicros.com/...y-finger-rolls.shtml
I noticed that the link Matt points to is already copyrighted by Eric, and since Eric may be the formost expert in the world on this stuff and has posted already, there is no need for me to yammer on.
EXCEPT:
Personally: I've found the biggest impediment to training and-or getting better is finding 2 things: 1) time, and 2) a partner to train or climb with. Having a hard driving partner may be the best thing I've found. It helps enforce dicipline and keeps you on schedule and pushing. Otherwise, it's just reading interesting things.
(Last off topic note - Eric, 1 have 2 of your books. Both awesome, well written and researched, highly recommended to everybody on this site: Flash Training in particular. Thank you.)
Good luck:
Bill
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jcshaggy
Jan 11, 2005, 10:12 AM
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Would weight training also be dictated by injuries you have sustained? I injured my rotator cuff recently.
I also run 5km three days of the week. Would this be beneficial to my climbing? Excuse the simple questions but I'm naive when it comes to this.
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overzealous
Jan 11, 2005, 2:52 PM
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In reply to: I use a bench technique designed for climbers. I put the bar under the bench, lie with my belly and chest right on the bench and lift the bar up slowly till it touches the bottom of the bench and slowly go down till the bar (weights on the bar) touch the ground, then I bring it back up again etc... I learned of this technique in some Outside mag a few years back, if feels good and I bet it helps a bit.
This probably isn't bad, but why use the bench?
How about if you just hold that position sans bench and do the rows? This will have two added benefits: First, you can complete the full range of motion (i.e. bring the bar all the way to your strenum). Second, maintaining that position will strengthen the lower back muscles somewhat, and additional core strength is never a bad thing for climbing.
Just make sure to keep your head up and back either straight or slightly arched when you do this. Search on bent over row, or "yates row" on google to find more information about this movment.
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attagirl
Jan 18, 2005, 6:45 PM
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This is a question for Eric, I was looking at both of your books on Amazon. What is the difference between Training for Climbing: The Definitive Guide to Improving Your Climbing Performance and How to Climb: Flash Training (How To Climb Series)? I am a beginning female climber looking to put together a training program. Which book would you suggest?
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