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climbchickky
Jun 16, 2002, 3:35 AM
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when you are climbing a sport route where there are people waiting in line to climb it, after you are finished is your partner supposed to climb or are you supposed to get back in line and wait? also is it proper climbing "etiquette" to set up a toprope on a sport climb when it is busy?
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jhwnewengland
Jun 16, 2002, 3:57 AM
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Your partner is definitely next after you. Anyone who says you should get back in line is a jerk. As for setting up a TR, it's probably not the best thing, since a lot of the people in line will want to lead it, but you should talk to them and ask what they want to do. After the first person leads it it's fine to leave it as a TR for the second though.
Jan
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apollodorus
Jun 16, 2002, 4:48 AM
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Sport is for fags! [kidding]
You and your partner get to finish the climb. If a faster party wants to play through (OMIGOD! That's a golf term...), then it's up to you whether or not to let them pass. If you are on the route, then, it's yours until you're done with it.
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noal
Jun 16, 2002, 4:52 AM
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Well said...first come, first...? Climb
The early bird catches the route, the...ok I'll stop
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jhwnewengland
Jun 16, 2002, 4:55 AM
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Yeah, the TR can stay as long as each member of your party gets a try. As Apollo said, once you're on a route it's yours until you're done.
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orestes1724
Jun 16, 2002, 10:13 PM
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i wouldnt agree that "sport is for fags"
but if you were their first, its all yours. i would say your partner goes next. you go as a package deal, if you both were their first why shouldnt you both climb first.
as for setting up a top rope while your on route. i would say no.
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jhwnewengland
Jun 16, 2002, 10:22 PM
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It's not really "setting up a toprope while you're on route." In sport, once you've clipped the anchors the TR is set up. I think it's fine for the rest of your party to climb it on TR after you've led it (as opposed to pulling the rope and leading it again), as long as no one takes way too long trying to work out the moves.
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newtocalgary
Jun 16, 2002, 10:42 PM
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the ettiquette also states that if the people are flailing on top rope above their abilities it might be a better idea to let the other lead the climb
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orestes1724
Jun 16, 2002, 11:32 PM
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allright i get it now, sorry about that.
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jt512
Jun 17, 2002, 5:31 PM
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Each member of your party gets to climb or work the route once, either on lead or TR. Then you all go to the back of the line. If other parties want to lead the route, you have to pull your toprope. Usually, we will leave our draws up, and the other party will lead on our draws. If we want to TR the route when they are finished, we often tape our rope to theirs, end to end, and use their rope to pull ours through the anchors.
-Jay
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neeshman
Jun 17, 2002, 6:16 PM
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It is kind of a tuff question, but I say if you have it... then you keep it for a while. If people are shoveing you off or are trying to, then they dont deserve to climb, One day of not climbing on the route you wanted is not gonna kill you, there will be other days. But if you are there every hour of every day, then I could see why other climbers would be mad. I guess what I am saying is be considerate of others while not jipping yourself.
[ This Message was edited by: neeshman on 2002-06-17 11:16 ]
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orngave
Jun 17, 2002, 6:24 PM
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It is your route till you are done with it. So you can climb it as many times as you want to, while making others wait. But remember what goes around comes around, treat them like you want to be treated. They might move to a diffrent route, and it be the one you wanted next....
E.B.
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bustible
Jun 17, 2002, 7:24 PM
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While still being considerate to your fellow climbers, consider this. Did you dedicate your day to waiting in line if you were on the route at sun up? Hell no. You were there first, they can wait. I am assuming that wherever you were climbing, there was at least a few other available routes..?..
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smithclimber
Jun 17, 2002, 9:31 PM
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I'll just add this:
Be careful about giving the route up to others. Once I had worked my ass off to get a toprope up on a route I wanted to work on. Then the "oh so confident ropegun" walked up and wanted to lead the route. He wanted me to pull my TR down so he could lead it. I asked if he was sure he could complete the route. He gave the impression it was going to be a cakewalk for him. I said I'd pull my rope if he would retread my rope before he came down. I thought that was pretty curteous of me to allow him to "play through". Well, he made it part way up the route then fell off at the crux numerous times. After taking repeated whippers from the crux, he finally decided to give up!! He lowers off, pulls his rope, and I'm the one who gets @#$%ed cause now I no longer have my TR up. I was sooooo pissed at that guy.
If your on the route, it's yours. Period.
Maybe you waited an hour to do this route your on. Maybe you are a visiting climber (perhaps from another country) and this is the only opportunity you are going to get at doing this route. There's no need for you to feel obligated to get off it cause someone else is waiting in the wings. If you were willing to wait an hour to climb it, they can too. If we REALLY want to climb something, we should be willing to wait for it. If we REALLY don't like to wait, go climb something else or get up earlier. Too many people lack patience.
It's not that I don't let others "play through", I frequently do. If they are obviously a faster party and I'm teaching someone new to climbing, naturally I let them ahead. Whenever I feel like I am the slower one I usually let people "pass", but "passing" is a privaledge not a right. We just need to realize that someone allowing you to "pass" is doing so out of CURTEOUSY not OBLIGATION.
[ This Message was edited by: smithclimber on 2002-06-17 14:39 ]
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hangdoggypound
Jun 17, 2002, 9:56 PM
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If there is a climb that my partner and I want to do, but there is another party there, I typically find another route. Maybe it's because I think waiting sucks. If I want it badly, then I state my intentions, "Hey, when you're done, let me know cause I'd like to give it a whirl." Or I'll ask ask how good the route is etc.
People usually say, "Oh, here, just take a drag on my rope." or what ever. I think it is the responsibility of the "waiters" to communicate with the people who are already on the climb, instead of inspiring some tension by just being there "in line."
This isn't McDonalds or Disneyland.
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jt512
Jun 17, 2002, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
If your on the route, it's yours. Period.
Not in SoCal, it isn't. You wouldn't last long down here with that attitude.
-Jay
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smithclimber
Jun 17, 2002, 11:55 PM
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I wouldn't last long down there?
What is that supposed to imply, that I will be dragged from the cliff by those waiting their turn?
First come, first serve.
If I'm in line for concert tickets, I don't just push everyone in front of me to the side merely because I don't like waiting.
They were there before me, so they've got dibs. Why should waiting for a route be any different?
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jt512
Jun 18, 2002, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
I wouldn't last long down there?
What is that supposed to imply, that I will be dragged from the cliff by those waiting their turn?
It would be explained to you -- at first, nicely -- that it is customary to allow others to work in with you on the route. You're probably not an asshole in real life, so you'd probably let them. If, on the other hand, you hogged the route too long, chances are good that somebody would just jump on it, pulling your rope if necessary. You'd get pissed and go back to your trad climbing.
Quote:
First come, first serve.
If I'm in line for concert tickets, I don't just push everyone in front of me to the side merely because I don't like waiting.
They were there before me, so they've got dibs. Why should waiting for a route be any different?
Nobody said anything about pushing anybody out of line. What I (and others) said is that you don't have the right to throw a TR up on a popular sport route and hog it when others want to climb it. Everybody in your party gets to work it once, then they go to the back of the line.
In SoCal there are a limited number of quality sport routes in comparison with the number of people who want to climb them. There may be half a dozen climbers projecting the same route. The easiest way to accommodate this is for everyone to work together.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-06-17 17:57 ]
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micahmcguire
Jun 18, 2002, 5:28 AM
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definitly first come first serve. you and your group (be it two, five, forty) take as long as you want on a climb and dont let anyone rush you, ever. If they do they are dicks and I'd say screw 'em, let 'em wait.
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jonoj
Jun 18, 2002, 5:49 AM
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I love South Africa!! So much rock, and very few queues (if any) for routes.
Jono
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duskerhu
Jun 18, 2002, 7:07 AM
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smithclimber and hangdoggypound Right On!
If you get up early and get a route first, work it 'till you're done! My partners and I (there may be 4 or 5 of us at times) get a route and some or all of us may lead it, some may just TR it. Each of us is going to go at it at least once and some of us twice (usually the first couple to re-work it after seeing everyone elses beta). A lot of times we'll set up 2 ropes on routes close to each other and hop back and forth.
You can wait in line if you want or if you communicate with us that you'd like to climb the route, we'll usually let you on our rope but we are gonna be there untill we are all done.
This past Saturday, same thing happend to us... We had been on other routes and wanted to work "Sleeping Bat In A Ziplock Bag" and when we got to it, there was someone on it. We told them that we'd like to climb it when they were done and then we went around the corner and climbed something else for the moment. When they were, they stuck their heads around and said, "hey guys, we're done over here if you guys want it." Which was cool of them 'cause they went to the route right to the left of it and we wouldn't have know they were done with "Sleeping Bat."
Anyway, if you're on it first, its yours 'till you're done. It's cool to be nice and let others on your rope, but its yours... Period! (exclamation point)
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
duskerhu
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overlord
Jun 18, 2002, 9:14 AM
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your partner in next. remeber, you ARE climbing in pairs, so your pair is STILL on the route. the next will just have to wait. but try to be as quick as possible regardless.
CLIMB ON
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jman
Jun 18, 2002, 3:38 PM
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I think the first comes, first served ruled applies here. Everyone in your party, who wants to climb the route, gets a chance to climb before giving the route up. You can't hog the route all day long if someone is completely flailing on the route or if no one is climbing it and you're waiting for someone else to show up.
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rocknpowda
Jun 18, 2002, 4:05 PM
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A climb is yours as long as people are climbing it . . . it is not yours to leave your rope on all day while your party has a picnic and climbs other routes. Period.
Even if you are cool with other people trying the route on your gear, not everyone is inclined to approach you and ask if they can do so; many people just walk away from the empty top rope pissed at you because you're hogging the climb. If your rope is on a climb, someone should be climbing it, if no one is climbing it, take your rope down.
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rjbonz
Jun 18, 2002, 4:23 PM
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This is exactly why sport climbing areas are such unfriendly places to climb at. None of you can agree on what the protocol should be for getting on a route.
Trad climbing areas never have this problem.
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