Nobody was making any excuses. You just made an assumption. What an asshole.

A little backstory on badsanta aka epicsaga aka James Wasser. The first and last posts are the points worth reading.

Please re-read entire thread for plenty of assumptions and excuses...my post was merely poking fun at ALL of us (climbers).

Thedejongs, correct, I WON'T climb with anyone that has almost killed someone. I encourage you to do so to show me the error of my judgements. They can practice their belay skills on YOU. Using an ATC or a 'thin' rope is no excuse for dropping a leader. I've held plenty of leader falls with both. Noob has nothing to do with it, a new belayer can hold leader falls if they are competent.

I generally try to ignore trolls, but since this joker is apparently setting himself up as some kind of instructor for Donna's group it is worth pointing out that more than one local climber has described James Wasser's belaying as "Felt like I was soloing the damn thing with his belay".

A little backstory on badsanta aka epicsaga aka James Wasser. The first and last posts are the points worth reading.

WHAT? JAMES WASSER your BadSanta? Bro come on man, how can you say that about the belayer who dropped Donna.... Bro you really kicked the climber when he is already down. HEY NEXT TIME WE CLIMB well talk about "TACT". I am ready for Suicide Rock. Ingrid is taking me to Tahquitz this weekend. So next weekend I am free. Contact me... REMEMBER JAMES.. TACT!

You're still willing to climb with this sociopath?

One inadequately trained n00b got dropped by another inadequately trained n00b.

There are many people out there with delusions of experience (and good belay skills).Maybe a thread outing known people like this could be useful.

but how do you create a criteria to gauge the competence of the belayer before throwing them to the dogs? I understand about giving a test, etc...but this is cyber land. Do you just go by one's reputation? How they post? Looking at their resume?

There are many people out there with delusions of experience (and good belay skills). Apparently some, like James and Randee (hehe), are notorious enough to be known by all SoCal climbers who have been around for awhile, but the poor noobs have no idea who these people are.

Oh my gosh! I remember her! Are you sure,, you just didnt want to date her,,a strong woman who had just completed,,, a solo roadtrip??!!

I appreciate the public-service sentiment, but I'm a little uneasy about the idea of having a running thread dedicated to that kind of thing. I think word gets around well enough, and karma eventually takes care of itself on a case-by-case basis, as illustrated above.

There is a safety obligation to the climbing community to let us make an informed decision

In a perfect world that would work, but then politics, a noob that thought he knew but really didn't know how to judge or some old angry girlfriend/boyfriend would muddy it up with unfounded opinions.

yeah... I tried to get wit Randee... nuttin' finer dan a hardwoman who dogged her way up classic climbs all over da country, and carries her gear in plastic grocery bags, and can't figure out how to operate the remote key to open the car door. Too bad for me she had to move on. sigh.

I don't know who that is or the story behind it, but sounds like an interesting Country Song....you got the rest of the lyrics?

Oh my gosh! I remember her! Are you sure,, you just didnt want to date her,,a strong woman who had just completed,,, a solo roadtrip??!!

[image]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/8/3/b/5/highres_753717.jpeg[/image]
[image]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/member/4/d/a/0/highres_919872.jpeg[/image]

apparently Naro and James Wasser aren't all that different. both have limited climbing experience and an overzealous penchant to appoint themselves instructors to unwary beginners, and with similar scatterbrains to match


couple of sundays ago, my friends and i happened to be climbing at the same spot where a big gathering of this group was. from a day's interaction with them and subsequent discussion with Naro himself, i don't find Jay's BS-cutting assessment all that far off, considering the random teach-by-committee approach that i've witnessed with this group. being that, Donna wasn't the only person responsible for what competence her belayer had up til that day of the accident. all of his so-called "teachers" are too. please don't drone on and on about how bad the belayer already feels. every one of you so-called "teachers" should feel the same. at minimum, the belayer's one and only job is to lock off on a fall. that means to do so even if you're yanked off-balanced, to do so even if your best friend's girlfriend starts giving you a blowjob in the middle of a belay. barring a lightning strike to the head or a jaguar leaping out of a tree and chomping you in the crotch, there's no if's or but's about that lock-off. and yet this very basic and mandatory skill is not successfully taught. even if a new, thinner, dry-treated rope was used in a standard tube device, the lock-off may be more difficult, but not impossible. if that's a contributing factor, every one of these "teachers" should've been aware of the consequence of this combo in inexperienced hands. and why did no one swap to him a better belay device to use with that rope. if he had a glove, why didn't anyone tell him to put it on. if not, why didn't anyone suggest he tape his brake hand? so yes, Jay's assessment is quite accurate, on both counts

Donna. i don't know you, only what little i've read here and elsewhere. you seems like a kind, giving person. hope you heal up soon and able to be back on the rock, and get to climb with better people

Sean

Donna. i don't know you, only what little i've read here and elsewhere. you seems like a kind, giving person. hope you heal up soon and able to be back on the rock, and get to climb with better people