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alpinismo_flujo
May 16, 2007, 6:37 PM
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I don't want to know his name - I want to know WHAT HAPPENED.
I really don't care who he/she is. A mistake with bad results could happen to anyone...I just want the facts of the accident from one of the two people that were actually involved in it.
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wonderwoman
May 16, 2007, 6:45 PM
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jt512 wrote: naronaro wrote: Donna's surgery went well. She is out of ICU and has been released to go home. She will be climbing with us again soon. As Billcoe_ said, "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it." Jay
Actually that quote belongs to George Santayana and the correct phrase is:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
He also said:
"The wisest mind has something yet to learn."
Theses I&A forum threads have an ugly tendency to dissolve into kicking a climber while she's down, and that's not a bandwagon that I'm willing to jump onto.
I am very sorry to hear about this accident. I hope that she recovers soon.
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naronaro
May 16, 2007, 6:48 PM
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baja_java wrote: first off, Naro, don't say anything to me that you wouldn't have the spine to own up to if it's put out in the open. you can quote anything i have said to you and put it in the open anytime. that right there is one big difference between you and me. sackless poseurs like you have plenty of things you have to hide here and there. many of the rest of us, we just don't have to live like that. you'll just have to grow up and understand. secondly, i opened the dialogue to your SoCal Rock Climbing Meetup Group in the open. it was you who decided you need to communicate covertly. not me. maybe you don't want people even from your own group to see what a selfish, self-serving prick you can sound like, with regard to your vision of cramming 25+ people onto a 9-route crag for a full day on a weekend, with the RSVP Limit set to 100 on the internet, without regard to your impact on the other climbers there. i won't put those choice quotes on here. but they will see the light of day at your group's forum, i promise you seem to have a great need to exist in this double public/covert world, Naro. you wrote a rambling post reply late last night, then edited it to what's now above to show only what you want others here to see, and sending the original version covertly to me. i know what you sent is the original post because i happened to have seen your original post before your edited, and thought i'd save it for prosperity. that way, when i post it again, i'm really just posting what i had cut and pasted, not the redundant version you felt you needed to send me well, Naro, hold on to your big girl panties, because here's a copy of that original post: before the edit, naronaro originally wrote: Wow... That's a nice picture of me you found Sean. I can't believe you brought our private conversation into a public forum. That Sunday at Malibu, there was no instructions.... just people climbing together enjoy a great day at the beach "Apparently Naro and James Wasser aren't all that different"... ..What you met me for a few hours on Sunday. Exchanged a few emails and now you know me enough to associate me with other people, because I climb with them? "overzealous penchant to appoint themselves instructors to unwary beginners, and with similar scatterbrains to match"... Now your putting words in my mouth. I never deemed myself an instructor. EVERYONE OF YOU SO CALLED "TEACHERS"?? What are you talking about?? Donna's incident is an unfortunate one, but it was her decision? Donna has 8 years experience climbing...bet you didn't know that did you! As far as the belayer, he alerted her of his inexperience. Donna made a bad call "what you haven't made any bad calls"?... DUDE you don't know anything don't jump into something without getting the right info. "and why did no one swap to him a better belay device to use with that rope. if he had a glove, why didn't anyone tell him to put it on. if not, why didn't anyone suggest he tape his brake hand?... DUDE YOU WEREN'T THERE. Why this, why that, ... Look at you..you seem to know everything.. I don't see many climbers (veterans or noobs) using, gloves, or taping hands, yours hands weren't taped, your gloves weren't put on... Your friends didn't tape there hands or had gloves, why wheren't you wearing a helmet...blah why, blah why... oh close your mouth dude. Sean, the issue we discussed was dropped. I bare no ill will towards you dude. But things like bringing private issues to public like this, man that's 3rd grade BS... Associating people before you get to know them that's like 7th grade BS... HOW are you suppose to instruct people when you act like a kid? At least get your information correct before you start posting things up. I visited Donna twice, I have corresponded with the belayer. This was an accident. THIS FORUM WAS SET UP TO SUPPORT DONNA TO GET BETTER, DUDE DON'T TURN IT INTO A PERSONAL ATTACK AGAINST ME OR THE CLIMBERS I CLIMB WITH! i'll just leave this up so people can digest it a bit, especially of what it indicates about your state of mind when under stress. who knows, maybe potential partners of yours might be interested in something like that, for single or multi-pitches to the everyone else, i'll post more, about Naro's acts that i and others saw firsthand at Pt Dume that will show what a scatterbrained and reckless nutjob he is on the rock. oh there were spectacular feats of exotic belaying and such performed by his cohorts too. but since you value your image so much, Naro, i'll do you a favor and focus those accounts more on you. when i contribute to this site, i like to submit with purpose and with high quality and don't try to communicate covertly to me in emails anymore, Naro. this is your one and only warning. there's some instruction at your group's site about unwanted emails that i shouldn't hesitate to forward to abuse@meetup.com. really, it won't look good if an Assistant Organizer of your group is ousted like a pestering psychotic
SEAN I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE TO YOU OR ANYONE! I DIDN'T WANT TO TURN THIS FORUM INTO A HE SAID SHE SAID, E-MAIL BATTLE. IT WAS SET FOR DONNA. NOT YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS TO ME OR THE SOCAL ROCK CLIMBING GROUP.
THAT'S WHY I SENT YOU THAT EMAIL, BUT YOU DID A GREAT JOB DRAWING THINGS OUT. WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ABOUT MY EVENT AT POINT DUME.
ONCE A MONTH, POINT DUME WILL BE THE PLACE THAT I WILL HOST MY CLIMB, HIKE, SURF, AND SNORKEL EVENT. IT WILL BE A TIME WHERE ME AND FRIENDS I HAVEN'T SEEN IN A WHILE WILL COME TOGETHER AND CATCH UP.
THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE IT OFFERS ALL THESE OPTIONS. ROPES AND ROUTES CAN BE SHARED, AS THE ROPES WERE ALL OFFERED TO ANY CLIMBER THAT WAS IN THE FACILITIES. IT WENT WELL.
SEAN DISAGREES WITH THIS STRONGLY. AND AFTER TIRADES OF EMAILS AND INSULTS TO ME. I DROPPED THE ISSUE... THERE IS NO REASON TO CONTINUE WITH THIS GUY. HE IS NOT WILLING TO LISTEN TO REASON OR COMPROMISE. THOSE EMAIL EXCHANGES WHERE BETWEEN ME AND SEAN. MY FATHER TAUGHT ME, AS A MAN I DON'T BRING MY PROBLEMS TO PUBLIC FORUM. SINCE SEAN WANT'S TO PUT EVERYTHING IN THE PUBLIC. I WILL POST ALL THE EMAIL DIALOGUE FOR EVERYONE ON MY SITE TONIGHT. EVERYONE CAN COME TO THERE OWN CONCLUSION AND MAKE THERE OWN JUDGMENT, IF YOUR A CLIMBER IN SOCAL YOU CAN COME DOWN AND JOIN US SEE THE EVENT FOR ITSELF. IT WAS MEANT TO ENHANCE CLIMBING AS A SPORT NOT KEEP IT A SECRET.
WITH THAT SAID I WILL NO LONGER WASTE SPACE HERE ON THIS FORUM OTHER THEN TO SUPPORT DONNA IN HER RECOVERY. I URGE YOU ALL TO DO THE SAME.
SEAN I HIDE NOTHING.
(This post was edited by naronaro on May 16, 2007, 7:23 PM)
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jt512
May 16, 2007, 6:52 PM
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naronaro wrote: "this group should not be a substitution to learning from a qualified guide"
I agree that it shouldn't be, but that is exactly what it is.
In reply to: We tell people to go and get lessons.
That's what you tell them officially; then, on the side, your members tell them, essentially, not to bother with formal instruction, because they will teach them themselves. Thus, your club is a de facto organized conduit that pairs naive beginners with unqualified instructors. All the fucking disclaimers and warnings on your website won't change what actually is.
In reply to: JAY we don't teach... JAMES POSTING is JAMES POSTING.. he can do that here if he wanted to!
Stop repeating that. That is precisely the problem with your club.
Jay
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nsavla
May 16, 2007, 7:15 PM
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it was really unfortunate what happened and i am really glad that Donna is in process of recovering from her accident.....yes i would like to know complete details about what happened so that lessons can be learn't and mistakes avoided.......
about this thread, i can't resist to tell my experience.....i have climbed with donna once at Big Rock sometime in summer of 06 and she is a really nice person with great personality but i must say i found her to be relaxed about safety issue.....i am not sure i would let an inexperienced climber to lead a fairly runout climb at big rock....it took a while for him to complete the climb or not sure he did complete it but he had his share of nervousness and i was glad that nothing unfortunate happened......that incident didn't prevent me from climbing with donna again though but i hvn't climbed with her again.
I have always climbed with people from rc.com or other climbing yahoo groups it has been a nice experience for me so far but i have bailed out on lead couple of times when i didn't completely feel secure with the person belaying me.......have climbed with James Wasser a few times but i never lead anything hard than a 10a sport and i hvn't pushed myself so i can't really comment on his belaying skills as such but as a person i think of him as a really selfish guy......i don't think i would lead a harder climb with an unknown belayer.
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badsanta
May 16, 2007, 7:45 PM
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Nayan I'm such a selfish guy that I gave you money to pay your towing bill and let you use my cell phone for an hour when your car broke down with me in it. And I led the routes that you didn't want to lead. And I offered to give you one of my water bottles when you thought you lost yours.
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badsanta
May 16, 2007, 7:55 PM
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"one local climber has described James Wasser's belaying as "Felt like I was soloing the damn thing with his belay"."
BS troll. No one has ever said that-you're a pathetic anonymous liar. "local climber = fictitious non existent person". If anyone wants less slack they get less slack. If they want to be held on tension after repeatedly safely falling they get to do that. I've held plenty of leader falls with them NOT being injured. I've never dropped anyone-including on new dry 9.5 mm ropes using an ATC with no glove or tape. Not a single person has every been hurt due to my belays.
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nsavla
May 16, 2007, 8:10 PM
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badsanta wrote: Nayan I'm such a selfish guy that I gave you money to pay your towing bill and let you use my cell phone for an hour when your car broke down with me in it. And I led the routes that you didn't want to lead. And I offered to give you one of my water bottles when you thought you lost yours.
Dude you just gave 10$ and that i believe was for gas and not towing, you were more bothered to get my car towed because you wanted to get back home and never gave a hint that you would be ok with me getting the car repaired there itself.
you made me ur belay bitch at pt dume and even when we had to leave you were like can i climb more....you come to my home to say you want to check just email and then hog the computer for over half hour to check myspace and send messages to chicks at hotornot.....when i give you the print out for the free club thing which earlier belonged to my roomie, you are not even sorry for him but you are glad that you can make it and u don't have to photocopy.
thats all i guess.....
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naronaro
May 16, 2007, 8:14 PM
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alpinismo_flujo wrote: I don't want to know his name - I want to know WHAT HAPPENED. I really don't care who he/she is. A mistake with bad results could happen to anyone...I just want the facts of the accident from one of the two people that were actually involved in it.
Hello Alpinismo this is the last email exchange that I had with the belayer:
Naro,
Actually, one of the people who helped us out is doing a summary for
the Accidents in North American Mountaineering (ANAM), published by
the American Alpine Club. He's going to forward his summary to me for
comments, and then submit it to them.
How about, after I get it and we finalize what he's submitting, I'll
forward it on to you as well, and then you can post it to the group?
I should get it within a day or so. I've told you what I remember,
but the people who helped us out were all better climbers than I, and
I think they might have more details (for example, one of them noted
that the rope was a 9.8mm rope, something that I didn't know).
AS I GET MORE INFO I WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED. THIS THREAD HAS GONE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
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badsanta
May 16, 2007, 8:15 PM
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Toejam shit for brains (of course you won't post your name, coward), I don't care to be an instructor for Donna's group, I'd rather others do it and invest in their own gear and ropes, and was trying to help out a friend, and I posted I highly suggest Long's book 'Climbing Anchors' so that people can safely make their own anchors. Perhaps since you love to shoot your mouth and fingers off YOU can actually give something back to the community and teach something other then how to be a trolling scumbag? And that you love to protect belayers who have dropped leaders to the ground, or was it you who did so and you're protecting yourself?
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badsanta
May 16, 2007, 8:24 PM
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Nayan, point being we could have driven my car that had no problems, but you insisted on driving an ancient broken down car that you knew wasn't running right, then we had to wait for it to cool off on the drive up, then we had to hike an extra 2 hours because it couldnt make it up a hill, then we saved the hike back because I flagged down guys in a truck to take us back, then you wanted me to wait hours on the side of the road. cause you're too cheap to get it towed, even though you could have driven it back home. Buy a newer car and learn how to fix it. No the money was because I felt sorry for you. At Point Dume I got to babysit your slow climbing roommate and you were returning the favor, or so I thought. Youre the selfish one.
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billcoe_
May 16, 2007, 8:36 PM
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badsanta wrote: Toejam shit for brains (of course you won't post your name, coward), I don't care to be an instructor for Donna's group, I'd rather others do it and invest in their own gear and ropes, and was trying to help out a friend, and I posted I highly suggest Long's book 'Climbing Anchors' so that people can safely make their own anchors. Perhaps since you love to shoot your mouth and fingers off YOU can actually give something back to the community and teach something other then how to be a trolling scumbag? And that you love to protect belayers who have dropped leaders to the ground, or was it you who did so and you're protecting yourself? Nayan, point being we could have driven my car that had no problems, but you insisted on driving an ancient broken down car that you knew wasn't running right, then we had to wait for it to cool off on the drive up, then we had to hike an extra 2 hours because it couldnt make it up a hill, then we saved the hike back because I flagged down guys in a truck to take us back, then you wanted me to wait hours on the side of the road. cause you're too cheap to get it towed, even though you could have driven it back home. Buy a newer car and learn how to fix it. No the money was because I felt sorry for you. At Point Dume I got to babysit your slow climbing roommate and you were returning the favor, or so I thought. Youre the selfish one.
It's time to let that stuff go Santa. The lesson should be looked at by the "teachers", IMO, and as a group, you should take this offline and have a detailed discussion.
Growth and something positive can yet come of this with a mind shift here or there.
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fixedpin
May 16, 2007, 8:36 PM
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Just when you think RC-Noob is a total wasteland, a real "where's the popcorn" thread like this shows up.
Priceless.
I do wish Donna the best, but my take on all this is that she should seriously consider disassociating herself from the "Club Gumby" group. The maturity level of some of its members seems to be severely lacking as well.
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nsavla
May 16, 2007, 8:39 PM
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badsanta wrote: Nayan, point being we could have driven my car that had no problems, but you insisted on driving an ancient broken down car that you knew wasn't running right, then we had to wait for it to cool off on the drive up, then we had to hike an extra 2 hours because it couldnt make it up a hill, then we saved the hike back because I flagged down guys in a truck to take us back, then you wanted me to wait hours on the side of the road. cause you're too cheap to get it towed, even though you could have driven it back home. Buy a newer car and learn how to fix it. No the money was because I felt sorry for you. At Point Dume I got to babysit your slow climbing roommate and you were returning the favor, or so I thought. Youre the selfish one.
yes i am a selfish guy becoz i wanted to drive my old junkie car btw when i offered to drive u jumped on the offer without offering to drive, my roomie who hasn't had any climbing exp wanted to try out climbing so i brought him along and iirc i was the one belaying him. anyway the pt dume climb was out there for all members of la-fun so were planning to have some newbies anyway.......
well you could have not hiked and decide not to climb to climb as well if that 2 hrs of hike was too much for u btw it takes only an hr or so. if spending 200 bucks for getting car towed is cheap well then yes i am a cheap guy mr rich man. with a broken clutch yes i could hv driven my car from santa clarita to downtown la its a different matter that it would have taken me couple of days to get there......
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shakylegs
May 16, 2007, 8:55 PM
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Um, Donna? I'm glad that you're better.
But, does it surprise anyone that our dear little Randee associates with this group?
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boku
May 16, 2007, 9:00 PM
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badsanta wrote: "one local climber has described James Wasser's belaying as "Felt like I was soloing the damn thing with his belay"." BS troll. No one has ever said that-you're a pathetic anonymous liar...
Just to clarify, is that how you characterize the following thread?
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
Thanks, Bob K.
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jt512
May 16, 2007, 9:54 PM
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badsanta wrote: you're a pathetic anonymous liar.
Look who's talking.
Jay
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crimpandgo
May 16, 2007, 9:58 PM
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nsavla wrote: badsanta wrote: Nayan, point being we could have driven my car that had no problems, but you insisted on driving an ancient broken down car that you knew wasn't running right, then we had to wait for it to cool off on the drive up, then we had to hike an extra 2 hours because it couldnt make it up a hill, then we saved the hike back because I flagged down guys in a truck to take us back, then you wanted me to wait hours on the side of the road. cause you're too cheap to get it towed, even though you could have driven it back home. Buy a newer car and learn how to fix it. No the money was because I felt sorry for you. At Point Dume I got to babysit your slow climbing roommate and you were returning the favor, or so I thought. Youre the selfish one. yes i am a selfish guy becoz i wanted to drive my old junkie car btw when i offered to drive u jumped on the offer without offering to drive, my roomie who hasn't had any climbing exp wanted to try out climbing so i brought him along and iirc i was the one belaying him. anyway the pt dume climb was out there for all members of la-fun so were planning to have some newbies anyway....... well you could have not hiked and decide not to climb to climb as well if that 2 hrs of hike was too much for u btw it takes only an hr or so. if spending 200 bucks for getting car towed is cheap well then yes i am a cheap guy mr rich man. with a broken clutch yes i could hv driven my car from santa clarita to downtown la its a different matter that it would have taken me couple of days to get there......
How old are you folks??
Cause, as I read this, I feel like I just entered a 5th grade classroom. 
If you spent this much energy learning how to climb you would be awesome :)
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jt512
May 16, 2007, 9:58 PM
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nsavla wrote: you made me ur belay bitch at pt dume
I love this line.
Jay
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nsavla
May 16, 2007, 10:06 PM
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crimpandgo wrote: How old are you folks?? Cause, as I read this, I feel like I just entered a 5th grade classroom. If you spent this much energy learning how to climb you would be awesome :)
i wish i could be more regular with my climbing......maybe i shouldn't have put that selfish comment in the first place...*sigh*
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alpinismo_flujo
May 16, 2007, 10:07 PM
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I agree with you fixedpin...this is good reading!!
Everyone please continue to post..
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naronaro
May 16, 2007, 10:18 PM
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alpinismo_flujo wrote: I agree with you fixedpin...this is good reading!! Everyone please continue to post..
I was just re-reading this whole thread and wow....LOL it is quite entertaining LOL. I almost wonder which direction it's goin to turn to next. It went from Get better to ... I was a belay bitch for a weekend.
This is good reading. I agree. Fixedpin pass the popcorn! Alpinismo... grab the beers! I can't wait to see what's going to be said next...
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baja_java
May 16, 2007, 10:28 PM
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no, Naro, i said i will drop the issue with you about your absurd plan to gangrope Pt Dume once a month with a group of 25+ because clearly you don't care about anybody else other than yourself and your group. i didn't say i will drop the issue with your group. if you don't have two brain cells in that scatterbrain of yours to put that together, that's your problem
this is how i know you, Naro:
my three friends and i were at Pt Dume that sunday morning before you and Devin(?) showed up. i roped up to lead the bolted route Right Center that goes up to the middle of the 3 bolted anchors atop that broad face. the anchor to the left is already taken up by a pair on TR, and the anchor to the right taken up by the one older guy with the grigri. while you were still down on the sand with us, i specifically told you that i would be leading up to that middle anchor to set a TR, if the fact that i'm tied in with draws on my harness weren't enough visual cues to get that notion through into your head. also i offered that after my friends have TR'd the route, we'd pull the rope and you guys can have that route. you and your buddy started hiking up to the top. halfway up the route on my lead, what did i hear? you on top asking if someone is leading up that middle route to see if you can use that anchor. were you deaf? what goes on in that scatterbrain of yours? i told you loud and clear that i would be leading up to that very anchor. or did you know full well, but asked anyway in case i just might tell you that it's ok for you to have it, so that maybe my friends can TR off of the highest bolt instead and have the last of them free-solo the downclimb back to the base? the hell were you thinking to even ask that? does that scatterbrain of yours work at all?
and this is even more mind-blowing. later in the day, when i got ready to lead Oceanside Right, there was already a TR on it put up by the guy and girl with the tattoos who didn't seem like part of your group. i had asked them and they gave me the go ahead to lead. but looking up at where their TR was set up, on the anchor of Oceanside Right, i said to you and him that even if you could use that TR to climb the face out to the right of Oceanside Right, with the rope pulled wide to the right like that, a fall would swing the climber across to the left and smack into whoever that's on Oceanside Right, that THE TWO ROUTES SHOULD NOT BE CLIMBED AT THE SAME TIME. you nodded and said yes like you actually understood and agreed. so i went to lead Oceanside Right. when i got to the 2nd bolt, what did i see when i looked over to the right? YOUR DUMB ASS TIED INTO THE TR AND COMING RIGHT UP THAT RIGHT SIDE WITH A BIG PENJI THAT COULD KNOCK ME INTO A LEAD FALL. i stopped, looked down at my belayer and the guy with the tattoos in disbelief and shook my head. i clipped in directly to the bolt, worked out a rest stance right where i was on the route to wait for your reckless ass to finish toproping that far right face. but then here's the kicker. apparently passing me on the way up hadn't clued you in that a leader had to stop and was waiting for you to clear your route. on the lower, you called down to have the lower stopped just above me SO THAT YOU COULD ALSO TR THE SECTION OF MY ROUTE JUST ABOVE ME THAT GOES UP THE FLAKES TO THE TOP, WHILE I'M STILL ON LEAD AND WAITING FOR YOU TO GET THE HELL OFF MY ROUTE. in all my years of climbing i've never ever seen an ass act of this epic proportion, and here perpetrated by a so-called trip leader. are you even aware of how big a screw-up you are, Naro? what exactly went through that braindead head of yours during this entire span? is that brain damaged? hey, by now i know what an absolutely reckless idiot you are. no further evidence is required for me. just re-telling some of this so beginners who look to you for "tips" might think twice about what kind of guidance could come from that scatterbrain of yours. that is how i know firsthand that you're a scatterbrain. just like the rambling jibberish you wrote that's re-posted above indicates. and reckless. and selfish because you just couldn't wait. so none of those three words are personal attacks, Naro. they're just FACTS
jt512 wrote: naronaro wrote: "this group should not be a substitution to learning from a qualified guide" I agree that it shouldn't be, but that is exactly what it is. In reply to: We tell people to go and get lessons. That's what you tell them officially; then, on the side, your members tell them, essentially, not to bother with formal instruction, because they will teach them themselves. Thus, your club is a de facto organized conduit that pairs naive beginners with unqualified instructors. All the fucking disclaimers and warnings on your website won't change what actually is. In reply to: JAY we don't teach... JAMES POSTING is JAMES POSTING.. he can do that here if he wanted to! Stop repeating that. That is precisely the problem with your club. Jay
that was exactly what i saw, Jay. just random suggestions here and there. sometimes looking like one newbie sloppily belaying another newbie sketching on TR. but i guess despite what my eyes could clearly see, one was supposed to be "experienced." but there was this one TR belayer that especially stood out to me. probably many others saw too since his technique was so unique. he's righthanded. imagine the taut rope coming down into the belay device, then instead of running out to the right to the brake hand near the right hip like normal, the rope instead ran out to the left and wrapped around his left side and to his back, and his right arm was wrenched around his right side to behind, with his right hand grabbing to brake the rope behind the back, right arm stretched toward the left side as far as it could go when i saw him, and with his left hand gripping the taut rope above the belay device. though very inefficient, you could still make this work if you know when you can let go of the taut rope with your left to help your right hand pull in rope and slide that up the rope. but he didn't. just randomly guessing when it was okay to do that, and his right hand struggling not to drop the rope altogether, and his body in a crouched brace stance as if he knew a fall might spin him momentarily and he might lose control of the belay. if that extra wrap around his left side was intended to add more friction and control to a normal belay, i can think of a few other easier ways to accomplish that (what with 16 other unused belay devices jingling about and glove and tape that has got to be in those twenty-some packs) without resorting to this convoluted method which the belayer was clearly uncomfortable with. which of you "experienced" climbers taught him this? if none of you did, why didn't any of you "experienced" climbers step in? by the time i saw, his climber soon topped out and luckily nothing happened
hmm, Naro, you had put in your own profile here that you sport lead only 5.9, but updated to 5.10a just today. what route you did you send last night or this morning that immediately prompted the upgrade, just as your competence and experience are coming into question? you've said to me that you haven't climbed trad in 9 years after a lead fall had spooked you. you're the one who emailed me to ask for multi-pitch tips because you've never done it before, that you're going to do your first multi-pitch this weekend at Tahquitz and that you're mostly going to follow. do you have a problem with me disclosing to people what your actual experience level is?
and oh please, slap a duct tape over that shattered ego and get the hell over yourself. i don't give a rat's ass whether you bear ill or willynilly will toward me or not. your opinions are absolutely worthless to me. you're a reckless idiot. fact. and a poseur who likes to play leader, who has very little skills or experience to be the leader of anything, who has no grasp of who you might endanger. hell, you can barely think straight
i stand by what i said regarding Donna's unfortunate accident, and especially about hoping she'll get to climb with better people. you on the other hand, if you go and read that re-posted rambling of yours above that goes all over the place but also sorta goes nowhere, even if you don't want to believe you're an idiot, wouldn't you at least have to say you sounded like an idiot?
seems like you're very eager for everyone to accept that the "non-catch and fall" at Holcombe was just an accident due to "a bad call," that either of those can happen to anyone from time to time. uh, no. that lock-off, that needs to lock every time. period. and it's not just a bad call. i see at least 3 major bad decisions that any competent leader wouldn't likely have made. some others could tell too, and have mentioned here and there. but i'll hold off on that until the official report
Donna, good to hear from you. learn from what happened, that's good. and from the above, hope you learn something about the people you're climbing with too
GL and Best Wishes
Sean
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alpinismo_flujo
May 16, 2007, 10:30 PM
Post #99 of 155
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Registered: Jan 14, 2006
Posts: 603
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Yep - makes me want to come back for more..
Thanks for posting your last conversation with the belayer. Looking forward to reading the analysis..
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billcoe_
May 16, 2007, 10:33 PM
Post #100 of 155
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Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
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baja_java wrote: badthoughtsbadthoughtsbadthoughtsbadthoughts..........
Please Sean, what are you REALLY thinking? Don't hold back.
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