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baja_java
May 17, 2007, 6:33 PM
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last week i was reading the Holcombe accident thread, and someone linked that to the SoCal Rock Climbing Meetup Group. i clicked around and saw that there were pictures of Pt Dume posted. i looked and they were from the day that my friends and i went, and there were couple of shots of one friend. he wasn't even the subject, just on the fringe or tiny. the photos being publicly posted, i saved them to my PC. i didn't actually even need to thank you guys, Naro, but i thought i'd sign up and make a post and say thanks whoever that posted those photos, and thanks for letting my friend use one of your TR ropes, even forgoing the point that it was done begrudgingly by that one guy from your group, that it wasn't exactly an offering, as they seldom are as big groups always like to claim. but nowhere in there had i said it was "a fun event." why are you making that up, Naro? can't remember something again? or just fabrication? i know because it wasn't that great for everyone else who had to put up with your circus
then instead of replying in that same public forum, you emailed me, mentioning you're trying to make that a monthly event. that's when i said Pt Dume might not be the best spot for that kind of thing, and gave you a list of reasons. all you could managed was one lame excuse after another on why Pt Dume just has to be the place, that people shouldn't see you as grabbing all the routes because of some greater good your group is trying to achieve. what greater good? endangering people who didn't know any better? helping them to become as clueless and reckless and selfish as you?
on the first climb i was leading that day, if i spend some time near the bottom section to tell two of my friends who had never climbed there what low-angled thin crimping and edging is, that's my business. you already know i'm leading that route, and that its anchor on top was the only one left. to even THINK of snaking it just because the rope isn't already up there yet, that again highlights what a couple of lame asses you are
but in truth, thinking about it now, you were just shocked that other people were actually there earlier than you so you couldn't hog all the routes. look at your group's Event Posting. "Starting at 8:00 am (we have to be there to grab routes)." not everything in life is a free-for-all, you selfish jackasses. our party of 4 actually had two ropes. i told my partner to leave his in the car, that the weekend can get busy, that it'd be inconsiderate to hog routes two at a time, that we could make do with one and just take longer breaks in between. they can testify under oath for this
when i first went over to ask to lead Oceanside Right, the tattooed guy asked me how it was on the Face Routes. i told him a zoo and only going to get worse. i remember his exasperation. again, do the math. 25 people in your group. some will climb more, some less. let's just say 3 routes per person. that makes 75 climbs total, up and down all day, spread across the 9 routes if you hog all of them (which you didn't get to do). realistically, how many non-group climbs can be squeezed in between? what rational mind would ever think that a huge gathering like that would be considerate to all the other climbers there? especially when you know you can just as easily go there in smaller groups on separate days, and especially when there's Stoney Point at about the same driving times from OC and SD if you absolutely have to gangrope rocks to death. and what self-serving asswipe would declare unilaterally that just because your group had fun that day that everyone must have had fun too, that the event went well for everyone? as if everyone elses' day had been brightened by your plague of locusts presence
the only instance i had thought about stepping in was on that contorted belay with the guy's brake hand around his back. but like i've already said, if you could read at all, by the time i saw, his climber soon topped out. end of drama. but you "experienced" climbers were the ones all around him when his partner went up. and remember, that was after your TR stunt while i was on lead, by the way. how could the group not be reckless if their trip leader was that horrendous? and throughout the day, i was giving pointers to my friends. that's the way i like to teach them (and i'm very comfortable using the word teach, because i know what i'm doing for what i'm doing), a ratio of 1 me to 2 newbies at most ever, with a 3rd who's a climbing partner who could help and would belay me on lead so that neither of the newbies would have to. both newbies did only one belay on each other, backed up by me, and then by my partner. and when i was next to the less experienced one, i also took the time to tell her why one way of belay might be preferable than the other. with someone that new, even though they won't have to catch some runout lead fall yet, you have to get it in their head how important that belay is, tell them what a TR fall would feel like, what a lead fall would feel like, how at that first instant when it might feel like all hell's breaking loose you just absolutely have to lock off on that belay no matter what, that that's how the first few would feel like, but with practice it would all become second nature
i spelled out very clearly in the emails that i would be saying things that you may or may not like to hear, about your inconsideration, about your imperative need to climb 25+ at the same time at one small spot and to do it monthly. no, you're not going to like it, because i'm telling you what's wrong with you. but that doesn't mean i was attacking you. i stated facts and the facts showed you and your group are thoughtless and inconsiderate, and completely absurd in thinking that people will just have to understand your gangroping on account of your group's greater goal, which just about any experienced climber would find delusional, except to you and your buddies
then seeing from your emails that it's pointless to deal with you, Naro, i went to stating openly at your group's forum why you shouldn't gangrope Pt Dume each month, and gave the reasons. i'll add some choice quotes from those top secret emails of yours, then trust me, after that, i want absolutely nothing to do with your group. not like i haven't already made that clear in the few posts that i've already made over there, days ago. you know, it's not like i'm calling the climbing police to stop you. you think you're the only bunch of douche bags in the world? plenty of people are like that. i call you what you are. so don't get so upset, what with all those streams of unhinged consciousness and run-on caps. so one person in the world think you're a clueless and reckless and dangerous menace. big deal
as Murf tried to reiterate to you, again, MOST IN YOUR GROUP ARE BEGINNERS! EVEN THE ONES WHO THINK THEY'RE EXPERIENCED! you people seem to think the only beginners are those who've either never climbed or have climbed once or twice. that by bringing them to your events across the internet and getting them roped up and on the rock, you've done some great deed by having given them the gift of climbing, that you've made them climbers and you've made some contribution to the sport that, quite frankly, you people don't even understand. all you've done is put people's lives in danger on those sketch job belays, passing on half-baked "tips" and the idea that your halfass methods and understandings are the norm, and telling them on top that it's ok to be inconsiderate, demonstrating that inconsideration with a heap of recklessness yourself on that asinine TR while i was leading Oceanside Right
by the way, anyone who knows that bolted route knows its anchor lies straight up on top. if you TR the face to the right off of those same anchor, that's an instant penji coming in from the right. even if you don't know the route, from that short description and simple geometry, you can easily see the problem. i told both the tattooed guy and you about this because <1> that's his TR rope still hanging on the anchor (again, he already gave me the okay to lead the route), and <2> i thought by telling you the trip leader you'd convey that to the rest of your group if any of them were to do anything similar. i had no idea if anyone from your group might lead that too. but hell, you couldn't even retain this in your own head, much less to alert the others. what's disturbing about this is how this kind of critical information can go in your one ear and just come right out the other. you would just run right up that TR, you said? not only you never said that, but that wouldn't make any sense. when i was talking to you and the tattooed guy, we were both unroped, standing on the rocks away from the wall, close to the water and looking up while i was pointing out the penji. how in the world then did i end up already leading on the route and you had to pass me on that TR to the right? did i shove you into the ocean and raced to rope up and rack the draws and charge up that lead? and why did you apologize afterward? i'm a pretty easy going guy. once you had said you're sorry, fine, done, despite the dubious "i had no idea you were there" that went with that "sorry." i was there to enjoy the day, and help my two friends who were there for their first time on outside rock, in spite of your circus. even trying to make up stuff now, you do a halfass job at it, Naro, just like your halfass job of trying to become a "climber." and oh, you forgot that the people on the TR to the left of Oceanside Right are all from your own group. no penji from them because their anchor wasn't directly above my route. but now you want to blame them for an imaginary penji from their direction? great, put that in your Event Postings too: BEGINNERS, COME CLIMB AND LEARN FROM OTHER BEGINNERS WHO THINK THEY'RE EXPERIENCED, AND BE EXPECTED TO TAKE THE BLAME IF YOUR TRIP LEADER NARO SCREWS UP ROYALLY. yeah, that'll go over real well. but you should actually. it's only the truth. see how many would rush to sign up then
about Holcombe, not like some of us don't already have a good idea about what happened. i have many copies of ANAM. pretty sure the word "INEXPERIENCE" will be in bold caps in that incident's title, though that would hardly sum up the ridiculous actual operating circumstances of your group
most people here actually don't even know me, as i don't post that regularly, nor am i part of the Community scene. people aren't turning on you because of the star next to my username. it's just THAT OBVIOUS that you are that lame, and downright dangerous
Sean
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jt512
May 17, 2007, 6:37 PM
Post #127 of 155
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reno wrote: naronaro wrote: I AM DONE ON THIS THREAD. Yes, you are. In fact, you're done in this forum for a week. Take the time to think things over, chill a bit, and decide if you can play well with others.
Now what are we going to do for fun?
Jay
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baja_java
May 17, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #128 of 155
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Clean & Jerk, Jay
don't believe the runout start. it's protectable
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sungam
May 17, 2007, 7:50 PM
Post #129 of 155
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now THAT is a fucking post.
-MagnuS
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drector
May 17, 2007, 8:18 PM
Post #130 of 155
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baja_java wrote: last week... Sean
Sean,
Thanks for not typing in all caps. Even with the lower case 'i' and other capitalization issues, it's much easier to read than that stuff from Naro.
Dave
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jt512
May 17, 2007, 9:23 PM
Post #131 of 155
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baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable
with a crashpad maybe.
Jay
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caughtinside
May 17, 2007, 9:29 PM
Post #132 of 155
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jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay
Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig.
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jt512
May 17, 2007, 9:35 PM
Post #133 of 155
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caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig.
It's a silly, grovelly climb, anyway. If that route were at a decent crag (like New Jack) it would get one star, maybe.
Jay
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thegrobe
May 17, 2007, 9:37 PM
Post #134 of 155
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 Damn funny! I gained some great new vocabulary from this thread. Thanks! Wow SOCAL climbing must get pretty exciting. I don't think I'll be trolling for any new partners in your parts.
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artm
May 17, 2007, 9:42 PM
Post #135 of 155
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caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig.
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artm
May 17, 2007, 9:44 PM
Post #136 of 155
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jt512 wrote: caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig. It's a silly, grovelly climb, anyway. If that route were at a decent crag (like New Jack) it would get one star, maybe. Jay
hahahahaha
It's a choss-pile in Mordor.
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jt512
May 17, 2007, 9:49 PM
Post #137 of 155
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artm wrote: jt512 wrote: caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig. It's a silly, grovelly climb, anyway. If that route were at a decent crag (like New Jack) it would get one star, maybe. Jay Did you just call New Jack a decent crag?
I was comparing it Chosshua Tree.
Jay
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caughtinside
May 17, 2007, 9:50 PM
Post #138 of 155
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artm wrote: jt512 wrote: caughtinside wrote: jt512 wrote: baja_java wrote: Clean & Jerk, Jay don't believe the runout start. it's protectable with a crashpad maybe. Jay Nah. Red alien if you don't have the sack for the jerk, then #1 camalot. No runout on that rig. It's a silly, grovelly climb, anyway. If that route were at a decent crag (like New Jack) it would get one star, maybe. Jay Did you just call New Jack a decent crag? hahahahaha It's a choss-pile in Mordor.
Nothing a little glue can't fix?
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reno
May 17, 2007, 9:52 PM
Post #139 of 155
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jt512 wrote: reno wrote: naronaro wrote: I AM DONE ON THIS THREAD. Yes, you are. In fact, you're done in this forum for a week. Take the time to think things over, chill a bit, and decide if you can play well with others. Now what are we going to do for fun?
Uh..... go climbing?
Just a thought. 
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artm
May 17, 2007, 9:57 PM
Post #140 of 155
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jt512 wrote: I was comparing it Chosshua Tree. Jay
tripperjm wrote: In reply to: How can a sleepy little out of the way area draw such strong opinions? In reply to: :lol: I've never been and don't plan on it. I haven't heard a good thing about it. I'd rather complete the drive to Vegas and climb a multipitch anyday. In reply to: I agree, chosspile. you can have the place. ive only been there once, ... i hung out with mr. marshal a bit and even he had something to say about the rock quality...calling it chode. if your on a route that hasnt been chocked up, watch where you put your hands as your likely to pull something off the route. ...it reminded me of the sport park in boulder canyon. In reply to: In truth New Jack City is probably the worst, and certainly the ugliest, climbing area in the western U.S. If there was a climbing area in Hell, I'm sure it would look very similar. They could have filmed the Mordor part of LOTR there. Only a diehard few LA area climbers go there despite the dearth of local crags, most continue on 2 more hours to Vegas, which has the best winter climbing in America. In reply to: The rock is choss, bring your crowbar if you're going to put up any routes. It's contrived, trashy, ugly. The area's real name is Sawtooth Canyon In reply to: I have never dragged myself out to this area.I hear its windy with lots of trash. In reply to: New Jack City, California. ....Questionable rock, lots of glass, gunshots, ATVs. In reply to: In reply to: I agree 1000% that New Jack sucks! I can't belive somebody blighted that foul stone with so many bolts! What a sh-t hole! HAHAHA!!!1 In reply to: ...a typical soft rated NJC climb In reply to: If the "ear" in question is carriage-bolted to the rock, you're talking about Espresso (5.10c). In reply to: Not the best rock ever .... In reply to: well, seeing that there is no real guidebook since like 1890 and the only way to get a hold of it is to buy it off the black market or somthing, I don't really know a single name of any route in New Jack. I have been there a few times but everyone seems too pissed that some people want to know the name and difficulty of a climb. In reply to: NJC certainly has its faults,... In reply to: .... especially at a place like NJC where holds have been known to blow out. In reply to: I seem to climb a lot of choss too Like the kind at NJC In reply to: piles of gunshells and broken glass at NJC Seriously guys, I hate to admit it, but I've been out to that choss pile and everything you hear is true! There has got to be a better place to climb, even if your a local socal. I would definitely not travel any distance to go there. My suggestion is In reply to: avoid that place like the plague If for some stupid reason you are unwilling to take this sound advice... and I'm not out of town climbing at a real climbing area, I'll give a tour to anyone who asks. And yes In reply to: For better or worse, the popular walls will be included in the upcoming revision of the Mayr/Sweeny SoCal sport climbing guide book. A dedicated NJC guidebook will be published afterward With new information .... the place will likely become even more popular... er ... I mean crowded. Best to just avoid this open wound.
(This post was edited by artm on May 17, 2007, 9:58 PM)
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ja1484
May 17, 2007, 10:54 PM
Post #141 of 155
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k.l.k wrote: Finally, a t-shirt ad featuring a very young woman sporting a shirt with a reference to anal sex and small furry animals.
I'm sorry?! I must have missed that one.
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alpinismo_flujo
May 17, 2007, 11:12 PM
Post #142 of 155
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Free Naro
Free the choss from NJC
and..
Free the furry animals used for anal sex..
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artm
May 17, 2007, 11:20 PM
Post #143 of 155
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alpinismo_flujo wrote: Free Naro Free the choss from NJC and.. Free the furry animals used for anal sex..
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curt
May 21, 2007, 6:54 AM
Post #145 of 155
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donnareed7 wrote: ...Yes, I've learned from this accident. and the learning continues until I climb again. But #1 in life is friends. And I have great ones that God has blessed me with...
First of all, I'm terribly sorry that you were injured in a climbing accident such as this. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery. Climbing has been an important part of my life for the last 30 years and I hope you will also enjoy climbing for many more years.
I am curious though--what exactly did you learn from this accident? If it is merely that you have good friends, I suggest you take up a different hobby.
Curt
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baja_java
May 21, 2007, 2:36 PM
Post #146 of 155
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a draft of the accident report posted:
POOR CHOICES, INEXPERIENCE, NOT WEARING HELMET
Holcomb Valley Pinnacles, Big Bear Lake, San Bernardino County, CA
http://rockclimbing.meetup.com/63/boards/view/viewthread?thread=3074290
hardly enough on the extent of poor choices and inexperience, from what's been actually seen
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papounet
May 21, 2007, 7:41 PM
Post #147 of 155
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curt wrote: donnareed7 wrote: ...Yes, I've learned from this accident. and the learning continues until I climb again. But #1 in life is friends. And I have great ones that God has blessed me with... First of all, I'm terribly sorry that you were injured in a climbing accident such as this. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery. Climbing has been an important part of my life for the last 30 years and I hope you will also enjoy climbing for many more years.
I am 100% with Curt on his considerate comments.
All mw wishes on a speedy and full recovery.
curt wrote: I am curious though--what exactly did you learn from this accident? If it is merely that you have good friends, I suggest you take up a different hobby. Curt
Curt, this is terrible. You make me laugh so much that I wasted a full glass of perfect grapefruit on my lap.
Seriously Donna, mountains (like the sea) do not care. They are a dangerous environment, in which mistakes kill or maim. Climbing outdoor is not an easy risk-free gymnastic aerobic exercice that one can do for fun without a care. I would suggest that you take the time to re-assess the reasons why you engage in such activity, and if you choose to assert your choice by climbing again (which I hope) that you take the time to read one or two general reference books such as "Moutaineering, the freedom of the hill".
I feel deeply for what you are experiencing. i have been trough similar times. I have been injured, I recovered, I discovered plenty of things about myself and people close to me, and I heard plenty of bickering too. PM me if you wish
Be safe
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walter
May 21, 2007, 8:05 PM
Post #148 of 155
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baja_java wrote: POOR CHOICES, INEXPERIENCE, NOT WEARING HELMET Holcomb Valley Pinnacles, Big Bear Lake, San Bernardino County, CA http://rockclimbing.meetup.com/63/boards/view/viewthread?thread=3074290 hardly enough on the extent of poor choices and inexperience, from what's been actually seen
"A sustained second-degree rope burns on his guide hand, and minor first-degree burns on his brake hand."
There's an awful lot of dickering about on that thread, and this one, about rope diameters, the ideal belay device, and ways to belay ... all of which completely miss the point.
If you know how to catch a fall, you WILL catch a fall. You'll catch any fall with just about any combination of rope, device, technique, and challenge. Whippers get caught on a daily basis iwthout incident and without any note of which rope or device or anything. People have died with their hands on the brake. Belayers do not drop their partners, period end.
If you don't know how to catch a fall, there's a -miniscule- chance that using an ATC-XP with a 10.5 and both hands on the brake might be an advantage .... but most likely, if you don't REALLY know how to belay and the shit hits the fan, someone's going to hit the deck regardless.
I hope Donna heals well and fast and I hope more than a few people take home a real lesson from her accident.
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