I like to consider myself relatively in shape, as of this morning I weigh 196.3Lbs. I'm 5'10"... used to play soccer all my life until a mountain biking accident messed my knee up so I can't play.

I started climbing almost 2 years ago...currently my main weakness is my horrible days when my forearms pump out on the first climb. I try to pay attention to what I eat, but sometimes this forearm pump crap lasts a few days. I climb at the gym every other day.

Anyway on to whats bothering me.... I have a gut (I think anyway) I can vary my weight from 204lbs to around 175 by changing what I eat for a few days...but the gut is always there.

What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? I feel like getting rid of this extra baggage will get me that extra performance I need.

Its funny, all I need to do is go back to bagels or cereal for breakfast, salad for lunch with chicken, and lean quisine for dinner. I can drop to 175 like nothing, granted my caloric intake is something around 1300 to 1500 a day. I have no fat on my arms, none on my legs, its all in my mid section.

I dont want to be a twig again, my girl hates that...

175 is still about 20 lbs over the ideal weight for a male of a medium frame. If you've got a large frame, then it's possible that you're within the ideal weight, as the upper end is 175. (This is all according to Met Life.)

Going down in bf% and overall weight doesn't mean you can't increase or maintain muscle mass.

Well fuck. I've got a slender frame, under 12% body fat, and I weight 175. Met Life is full of shit.

Frame doesn't refer to being skinny, slender, fat, muscular or anything else. Additionally, there are many dubious methods of measuring body fat. It's quite possible you have an inaccurate bf%. Also, they're only applicable for people 25-59.

Most importantly, however, you're right. They're full of shit. As I kept doing some searching, it's a poor estimate of an "ideal" (which means lowest mortality rate, nothing else) weight.

Yeah, I love to eat too, that 's why I have about an extra 10-15 on me most times.

Running is the best result for the time input but I don't do much of it either for the same reasons you don't.

I'd suggest biking as a good alternative, or swimming. Biking is quite a time investment however, as it seems to take about twice as much time or more of biking to get the same result as running. Usually for the biking to be a very good weight management tool for me involves somewhere around 30 miles or more at a shot (which I don't have time for these days) with some considerable hill training. I don't know about simming because I just don't do it, but it is a good whole body exercise. I tried rowing for a while, but it's pretty boring and I'd just as soon rest my hands when I'm not climbing.

Anyway on to whats bothering me.... I have a gut (I think anyway) I can vary my weight from 204lbs to around 175 by changing what I eat for a few days...but the gut is always there.

So what exercises should I concentrate on to burn some of this fat off my stomach? I don't really enjoy running... it puts a lot of stress on the bad knee, and after a while my hips don't feel great either. I can bike a lot though.

I like to consider myself relatively in shape, as of this morning I weigh 196.3Lbs. I'm 5'10"... used to play soccer all my life until a mountain biking accident messed my knee up so I can't play.

I started climbing almost 2 years ago...currently my main weakness is my horrible days when my forearms pump out on the first climb. I try to pay attention to what I eat, but sometimes this forearm pump crap lasts a few days. I climb at the gym every other day.

Anyway on to whats bothering me.... I have a gut (I think anyway) I can vary my weight from 204lbs to around 175 by changing what I eat for a few days...but the gut is always there.

What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? I feel like getting rid of this extra baggage will get me that extra performance I need.

I'm about 200lbs at 5'11" And trying to lose about 15-20 pounds. I know if I starve myself for a few days I only drop about 5-7 lbs.

So how the hell can you drop 29lbs. just by changing what you eat for a couple days.

Well fuck. I've got a slender frame, under 12% body fat, and I weight 175. Met Life is full of shit.

my unhealthy PA upbringing (I crave AP cakes and cheesesteaks like nobody's business

Get on the P90X train!!!!!

My mom just came to visit. She brought Good's potato chips (potatoes and salt cooked in lard), and Tastycakes. Just what I need.

Get on the P90X train!!!!!

eat some around 1,3 lbs. of vegetables every day.
half at lunch the rest at dinner. skip most carbs - like bread, pasta and potatoes. and ofcourse sugar containing drinks(soda's) and alcohol.

Funny thing.... I was a bit over 200 when I left Michigan and within 6 months of being back in Philly I had dropped to 175 on a steady diet of pizza, cheesesteaks and beer. So clearly any extra extra weight you're carrying is due to lack of what your body has been genetically developed to need in order for proper functioning.....

within 6 months of being back in Philly I had dropped to 175 on a steady diet of pizza, cheesesteaks and beer. So clearly any extra extra weight you're carrying is due to lack of what your body has been genetically developed to need in order for proper functioning.....

From my experience of weight loss,this past summer i weighed 190 now i weigh 158 as of this morning and have gained a ridiculous amount of muscle compared to before. However the key to so much progress was a slow process yeah there was an initial 10lbs drop when i changed my eating habits but i plateaud several times once at 170, 165 and recently 160. The difference is although im not losing weight im losing fat slowly, which is key.
U dont want an instant drop, you will not lose your gut in that manner. Its a slow process, i spent alot of time reading up on best ways to burn fat. the method i found most effective is to start doing interval training. in other word high intensity with small burst of low intensity rest. the reson being is the constant change of intensity sends ur metabolism into shock, forcing it to overwork for up to 48 hours post workout.

just my 2 cents good luck sir!

I like to consider myself relatively in shape, as of this morning I weigh 196.3Lbs. I'm 5'10"... used to play soccer all my life until a mountain biking accident messed my knee up so I can't play.

I started climbing almost 2 years ago...currently my main weakness is my horrible days when my forearms pump out on the first climb. I try to pay attention to what I eat, but sometimes this forearm pump crap lasts a few days. I climb at the gym every other day.

Anyway on to whats bothering me.... I have a gut (I think anyway) I can vary my weight from 204lbs to around 175 by changing what I eat for a few days...but the gut is always there.

What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? I feel like getting rid of this extra baggage will get me that extra performance I need.

Eat less. Eat better. Move more.

Hi bbowers,
I trained various kinds of people for a number of years. I preferred to train athletes for sport reasons, but I also worked with lots of people who needed to lose weight as well as gain weight over this time. (I should mention I have appropriate credentials in this area as well that include a college degree.) Weight management and obesity issues are complex; even I don't understand everything.

That said, here is some general advice:

1. Android obesity (beer gut) is the most responsive fat storage to exercise, much more responsive than gynoid obesity (hips and thighs). Hopefully this encourages you.

2. Strenuous exercise that incorporates both aerobic and resistance training should elicit you the greatest gains if done properly and then maintained (typically less effortful) for the long haul.

3. By resistance training, I do not mean just bicep curls, abs, and bench chess or push ups.

4. The more variety you have in your aerobic exercise, the better. And really. When it comes down to it, who gives a fuck about swimming and your core or running and your core. The most important thing is to do the exercise you are most likely to do at all. Ultimately, though, you will need some variety in this area to overcome plateaus.

5. Do your aerobic exercise in HIT format if you can muster the intrinsic motivation. A number of studies are finding that High Intensity Training intervals appear to be more effective at burning fat than the typical Slow Moderate Pace to Nowhere that most people engage in. This is believed to be due to it causing elevated post-exercise oxygen consumption, but I won't get into that.

5a. High intensity intervals usually requires short bouts of pushing hard on your chosen activity. The duration of sprints is dependent on an individual athlete and what their aerobic requirements may be. I do anywhere from 30 sec-2 min usually. That is, my interval ends when I literally cannot push any longer at that pace at that time. I will warn you: the majority of people do not have the mental discipline or motivation to truly train HI intervals.

6. Although resting metabolic rate is only correlated at less than 20% dependent on skeletal muscle, clearly we know exercise, esp. strenuous exercise, has a profound effect on it anyway. Aerobic exercise alone typically has a correlation with a loss of muscle mass. This is bad. That is why I tell people to strength train. Not to mention I have personally witnessed far better results in my clients when they employ whole body strength training.

7. Which leads to my next point. Climber dudes who need to lose weight tend to try to go about it by only exercising half their body (the upper half). But you do need to preserve lean mass in your lower body, and as research shows, aerobic exercise doesn't do this. So strengthen your lower body; after all, it has the largest muscles in your body and can burn a whole lotta calories. Trust me, you can do this without getting huge legs which will weigh you down in climbing. Oh, and your knees will thank you for it eventually.

7. Yes, you MUST watch what you eat. BUT overly restrictive "dieting" can have very negative effects on your resting metabolic rate (i.e. it will decline), effects which studies show not even cardio or weight training will be able to reverse back up.

8. Do not deny yourself things completely. I have never told a client they cannot have this or that. Just areas where they need to cut back and/or employ other strategies. If you pig out one day, make sure you rein in the following two days to make up for it or do some extra exercise to help get into a calorie deficit. Also, avoid drinking your calories!

9. Accept that your problem areas will always be your problem areas, no matter how perfect your body eventually becomes on my advice. This is true for every person on earth. The battle will be eternal, and it will always be in the same place(s).

10. Lastly, most of rtwilli4's post was completely useless and/or nonsense. Please avoid reading it if you haven't already.

Sorry this was so long. This kind of stuff can't fit into a three-sentence post. Hope it helps a little!

WTF. Why do I hear all this shit about doing Pilates for your gut, doing swimming instead of some other aerobic exercise b/c it will "work your core [aka beer gut] more", and all other manner of core-specific workouts?

Do you guys honestly still believe in spot reduction???

Rule #1: don't give advice on weight loss when you have no idea what you are talking about--and when, in fact, you still subscribe to pseudoscience of years gone by.

7. Which leads to my next point. Climber dudes who need to lose weight tend to try to go about it by only exercising half their body (the upper half). But you do need to preserve lean mass in your lower body, and as research shows, aerobic exercise doesn't do this. So strengthen your lower body; after all, it has the largest muscles in your body and can burn a whole lotta calories. Trust me, you can do this without getting huge legs which will weigh you down in climbing. Oh, and your knees will thank you for it eventually.

thanks to aerili for the usual bit of sense in these threads.


I have been thinking about this. I climb and strengthen my upper body incl. antagonists. on off-days I've been doing 10k aerobic runs, 3 times a week. fitness-wise this works great, I used to run much more than this. so no feeling of overtraining.

but recently I've had some discomfort on the inside of my right knee. I suspect it actually comes from climbing and not running, however as I do both it's really hard to tell. I do substitute some cycling here and there and after reading into it recently I'll try to fit in one or two HIIT sessions on the bike, as I want to go down some more in body fat.

now my question to you is: what kind of strength training for the legs would you recommend? of course I don't want to bulk, but it would be great to a) burn some more calories down there and b) to help stabilize the knee more.

thanks a lot for your efforts here

even I don't understand everything

Do your aerobic exercise in HIT format ...I do anywhere from 30 sec-2 min usually...my interval ends when I literally cannot push any longer at that pace at that time.

What do you do to get rid of your gut and get those abs exposed? I feel like getting rid of this extra baggage will get me that extra performance I need.

Grits. Two bowls a day.

I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty.

I don't know where you got it from that I was talking about 'spot reduction'. the point is that they are large muscle groups and working them out will lead to burning more calories than just working out the upper body.

I was clearly referring to her post, so reading that would be a good start before you comment on my question.

You specifically said "burn calories down there." What the hell else is there to read?

His post made perfect sense to me. He said burn calories down there, not burn fat. It seemed pretty obvious to me he was saying getting big muscles going would burn a lot of calories.

but recently I've had some discomfort on the inside of my right knee. I suspect it actually comes from climbing and not running, however as I do both it's really hard to tell.

now my question to you is: what kind of strength training for the legs would you recommend? of course I don't want to bulk, but it would be great to a) burn some more calories down there and b) to help stabilize the knee more

Are you an Arthur Jones adherent? You may wish to mention that there are other protocols such as Fartlek and Tabata...

I'd rather be fat. Eating grits is like slurping down a bowl of snot with sand mixed in. Fucking nasty.

And that is precisely why you will loose weight.

You're not old enough to have a gut to get rid of!!!

I second doing intervals in the pool and on the track. When you do your pullups instead of dead legs, when your going up lift them. That other fucking lab coat scientest guy in this thread knows what he is talking about. Listen. I usually opt for a well balanced diet. Don't deprice yourself.

Despite all off the well intentioned advice here there is only one proven way to get rid of some of your gut. Surgery.

Your small/large intestines don't change size no matter how much you exercise. Only a surgeon can cut some out.

For the slightly less desperate, may I suggest an enema ?

Hi bbowers,
I trained various kinds of people for a number of years. I preferred to train athletes for sport reasons, but I also worked with lots of people who needed to lose weight as well as gain weight over this time. (I should mention I have appropriate credentials in this area as well that include a college degree.) Weight management and obesity issues are complex; even I don't understand everything.

That said, here is some general advice:

1. Android obesity (beer gut) is the most responsive fat storage to exercise, much more responsive than gynoid obesity (hips and thighs). Hopefully this encourages you.

2. Strenuous exercise that incorporates both aerobic and resistance training should elicit you the greatest gains if done properly and then maintained (typically less effortful) for the long haul.

3. By resistance training, I do not mean just bicep curls, abs, and bench chess or push ups.

4. The more variety you have in your aerobic exercise, the better. And really. When it comes down to it, who gives a fuck about swimming and your core or running and your core. The most important thing is to do the exercise you are most likely to do at all. Ultimately, though, you will need some variety in this area to overcome plateaus.

5. Do your aerobic exercise in HIT format if you can muster the intrinsic motivation. A number of studies are finding that High Intensity Training intervals appear to be more effective at burning fat than the typical Slow Moderate Pace to Nowhere that most people engage in. This is believed to be due to it causing elevated post-exercise oxygen consumption, but I won't get into that.

5a. High intensity intervals usually requires short bouts of pushing hard on your chosen activity. The duration of sprints is dependent on an individual athlete and what their aerobic requirements may be. I do anywhere from 30 sec-2 min usually. That is, my interval ends when I literally cannot push any longer at that pace at that time. I will warn you: the majority of people do not have the mental discipline or motivation to truly train HI intervals.

6. Although resting metabolic rate is only correlated at less than 20% dependent on skeletal muscle, clearly we know exercise, esp. strenuous exercise, has a profound effect on it anyway. Aerobic exercise alone typically has a correlation with a loss of muscle mass. This is bad. That is why I tell people to strength train. Not to mention I have personally witnessed far better results in my clients when they employ whole body strength training.

7. Which leads to my next point. Climber dudes who need to lose weight tend to try to go about it by only exercising half their body (the upper half). But you do need to preserve lean mass in your lower body, and as research shows, aerobic exercise doesn't do this. So strengthen your lower body; after all, it has the largest muscles in your body and can burn a whole lotta calories. Trust me, you can do this without getting huge legs which will weigh you down in climbing. Oh, and your knees will thank you for it eventually.

7. Yes, you MUST watch what you eat. BUT overly restrictive "dieting" can have very negative effects on your resting metabolic rate (i.e. it will decline), effects which studies show not even cardio or weight training will be able to reverse back up.

8. Do not deny yourself things completely. I have never told a client they cannot have this or that. Just areas where they need to cut back and/or employ other strategies. If you pig out one day, make sure you rein in the following two days to make up for it or do some extra exercise to help get into a calorie deficit. Also, avoid drinking your calories!

9. Accept that your problem areas will always be your problem areas, no matter how perfect your body eventually becomes on my advice. This is true for every person on earth. The battle will be eternal, and it will always be in the same place(s).

10. Lastly, most of rtwilli4's post was completely useless and/or nonsense. Please avoid reading it if you haven't already.

Sorry this was so long. This kind of stuff can't fit into a three-sentence post. Hope it helps a little!

Sounds like it would work, but then I got hungry, so I had a cheeseburger and some fries while I was thinking about it. And beer. And ice cream. And candy.

So, um, back to the topic. Does anyone have any idea how I could lose my gut and get a rock-hard sixpack?

Have you ever seen a fat heroin addict? I haven't.

It's pretty expensive but I think it's somewhere near a 100% success rate.

I understand that fat stored in the gut is much more responsive to exercise and dieting but does that mean it is impossible to lose the pounds of fat located in my hips/quad area? I have almost no fat left in my stomach area and definitely no fat left in my upper body. The bulk of the fat (which isn't much since I'm 6'2'' and 170) is located in that exact area of the thighs/hips/quads/hamstring area.

Anything in particular to do? I'd assume eating stuff that helps lower estrogen levels would help significantly but I'm not sure.

Get on the P90X train!!!!!

Yeah, I love to eat too, that 's why I have about an extra 10-15 on me most times.

Running is the best result for the time input but I don't do much of it either for the same reasons you don't.

I'd suggest biking as a good alternative, or swimming. Biking is quite a time investment however, as it seems to take about twice as much time or more of biking to get the same result as running. Usually for the biking to be a very good weight management tool for me involves somewhere around 30 miles or more at a shot (which I don't have time for these days) with some considerable hill training. I don't know about simming because I just don't do it, but it is a good whole body exercise. I tried rowing for a while, but it's pretty boring and I'd just as soon rest my hands when I'm not climbing.

Ahhhh pizza, cheesesteaks and beer. The diet of a true Philadelphian

you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body. That is the main cause of the disequilibrium of fat distribution in your body.

Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

Are you being sarcastic or are you bein genuine? Cuz if you're serious i can post stuff of Beta1 vs Alpha 2 adrenoreceptors.

Basically the balance between the 2 will determine where you have a propensity to develop those "stubborn" fat pockets that are always harder to get rid of. In women, they generally have more A2's in their hips and ass, in guys its in the abdominals and love handles.

Then you see strange areas for girls who are super skinny everywhere then they have fat hanging off their triceps like a roosters neck. Or some guys that only gain weight primarily on their legs.

Generally everyone gets fat from eating bad, depending on where you have more A2's vs B1's will determine where most of your fat develops and stays.

Its the reason why you can work out til doomsday, be super ripped all around but have that pudge under your belly button and muffin top hangin out where your love handles are.

I just balanced my adrenoreceptors and finally got rid of that stubborn pudge on my scrotum.

Now I'm ripped everywhere!

Thanks!

Some of you already know that you cannot spot train, i.e. you cannot work out one part of your body to remove fat specifically from that area. When you exercise, your body burns the fat all around. But when you get fat, your body will be more prone to inflate specific areas of your body.

This is why:

Some people have an alarming discrepancy between their upper and lower body fat, as if they had 2 different bodies glued together at the waist. When you get down to trying to get rid of the last stubborn fat, muscle wasting accelerates, especially in the face. You may be discouraged, quit your diet, and go on a rampage of binge eating which would put all the fat back on. The fat from binging, as explained above, will go back where you don’t want it to go: hips, thighs, buttocks, love handles, stomach.

Your doctor will say “genetics” or a “female thing”.

Lower body fat does not just have more fat cells. It responds differently to weight loss because its response to certain hormones differs markedly from most of the other fat on the body. These crazy fat cells are not only the last to reduce, but just as importantly, they can cause further metabolic slowdown and catabolic action in areas far away from your butt or stomach.

We’ve all heard the story of “Mother lifts car to free trapped infant”, the rush you get from jumping out of a plane, or the feeling you receive after a near-miss car accident. All these events have something in common: Adrenaline. Think of it as an octane booster to the body whenever you encounter BIG stress.

Adrenaline is a hormone, naturally produced chemical messenger that imparts instructions to various cells in the body. Adrenaline is produced by the two adrenal glands located over each kidney. Noradrenaline which is slightly different is generated at the nerve endings.

Why are there 2 sources for this hormone? Because noradrenaline can only be generated in the nerves of certain cells. Cells that don’t get much blood circulation (like fat cells, for example) aren’t candidates for adrenaline, which is circulated systemically.

Hormone receptors on cells are like assigned parking spaces, tailored in size and shape to each type of hormone.

Receptors for both adrenaline and noradrenaline are called adrenoreceptors. Adrenoreceptors are almost everywhere: in the blood, organs, the muscles, and the fat cells.

There are 4 types of these receptors, and each one communicates a different message to the cell. Sometimes fat cells get completely different messages from its receptor sites. Lower body fat has very screwy adrenoreceptors. These are the 4:

Alpha-1 (A1)
Alpha-2 (A2) Bad
Beta-1 (B1)
Beta-2 (B2)

Fat cells have both B1 and A2 receptors. Fat cells don’t get much blood circulation, so it is noradrenaline that attaches to these receptors.

B1 receptors send good messages. They activate lipase, the enzyme that breaks down fat. Lipase causes the fat cell to disassemble itself, breaking down stored triglycerides into fatty acids and glycerol, which are used for energy throughout the body. B1’s are the good guys, and it is noradrenaline that lights them up. Regular adrenaline would do the same thing if it could reach the receptor. However, fat doesn’t have any major arteries or veins, only capillaries.

Let me reiterate, A2’s are the bad guys. They block lipase in the fat cell. Worse, A2s also encourage the formation of triglycerides in the cell. A2’s also decrease the generation of noradrenaline at the nerve sites. Less noradrenaline means that the good B1’s don’t light up as brightly. Lower body fat doesn’t have many B1’s anyway. The picture is grim: fat cell disassembly is blocked, more fat is stored, and body temperature is slightly reduced. Low calorie diets cause an increase in the number of the A2 receptors.

1. Fat is lost first and fastest at the cells with lots of B1 receptors.
2. Very little fat is lost in the fat cells that have lots of A2 receptors.
3. Eventually, your noradrenaline levels drop, reducing your body temperature.
4. The number of A2 receptors increases. The last of the fat becomes so hard to mobilize that the body will have to use more amino acids (from muscle) for fuel.
5. When you finally give up on the diet, even so-called normal eating will cause new fat accumulation right in the fat cells that have just increased their number of A2 receptors.

Tell me your waist to hip ratio: this would be the measurement of the narrowest part of your waist (measured after breathing out normally) divided by the measurement of the widest part of your hips--all measured IN CENTIMETERS. The divided number should be a number less than 1.0. Also I would need to know your age. If you like, you can pm me this info.

...and you might wanna take Yohimbine HCL to help balance the ratio of of Alpha-Beta adrenoreceptors in your body.

Isn't Yohimbe/Yohimbine a banned substance in a number of countries (Canada, Australia, Ireland, NZ, Germany, Norway, Finland, ...)?

Ok OP (or others)

So lost any weight based on the helpful advice given here? It has been close to two months and wondered.

Or is this site all just some phenomenal conspiracy to keep us from learning "the truth"?