7. So I maintain my conclusion, which is unpalateable for most women: Climbing and motherhood are pretty incompatible. This is not the same as saying that you can't combine the two. But not easily. Not all the time. It takes a lot of work, luck, and some other factors I mention in the article.

Hey Sebs, thanks for replying, and the below is not directed at you specifically.



but i've got all my going to hell points saved up, so i'll say another one of my thoughts.

it kinda seems like having kids is one huge pain in the ass after another. and listening to women talk about how hard it is to have kids, and then to turn around the other second and gush about how wonderful being a mother is, well- there's a term for ascribing value to something that was extremely difficult or painful. it's the same term used for why kids are so fanatically devoted to marching band (i e band camp is hell) or part of why members of the armed services (particularly the marines) are so fanatically devoted.

i can't remember what the term is right now. but it's like, you have to convince yourself that what you did was worthwhile, because it cost you so much. it seem like sometimes that's how women are with their kids, particularly when they talk very often about how difficult kids are. it's like they're hostages, and keep repeating that motherhood is wonderful because they're trying to convince themselves.

Masochism! That's it! That's the term you're looking for!

no, it's something specific that means ascribing value to something above and beyond what you would rationally/objectively otherwise value it, as a direct cause of the emotional or physical cost you've paid for it. not because you enjoy pain, but because you want to believe that you are a rational person and therefore, if you paid a high price for something, then it must have been worth it.

like if someone has a stupid affair, and it ends up costing them their marriage. and they then declare that the affair partner was the real love of their life, because, damn it all, they must have ruined their marriage for a reason. even though they really know their spouse was a better mate that that person and that they were happy before and that the affair was a bad idea.

it would be related to "throwing good money after bad." like, you start a project, and you end up spending a ton of money on it and it fails miserably, but god damn it you started it and you're going to finish it, and keep spending more money, even though it will never turn out, because you can't admit that you've spent really money and opportunity cost/time on something that was worthless.

or like an exercise program that makes you feel like crap, but you dont stop- you tell all your friends about how wonderful it is, because they've mocked you mercilessly about it since you started and you can't admit that it was all worthless.

Thanks Macherry, I will do that
Found a good midwife local to me at least, my first check up next week.

i can't remember what the term is right now. but it's like, you have to convince yourself that what you did was worthwhile, because it cost you so much. it seem like sometimes that's how women are with their kids, particularly when they talk very often about how difficult kids are. it's like they're hostages, and keep repeating that motherhood is wonderful because they're trying to convince themselves.

If you have other interests, like climbing, or even your career, children will inevitably interfere with your lifestyle and your sanity.

Well, kids do get older and sometimes they're really fun to be with.

Exactly right. It's all biochemistry of our brain. Happiness from being a parent is an illusion that makes us multiply.

I guess, TRing an occasional 5.10 on a weekend few times a year still qualifies as climbing, and one can do it with kids, but progressing to a serious level (i.e., 5.13b (French 8a) and above) if you have not done it before having children is extremely difficult.

and i mean, i don't the the above elusive term applies to everyone. .

the above elusive term

Actually, saying that climbing and motherhood are incompatible is the same as saying that you can't combine the two just by definition of the word "incompatible".

It's interesting, because I did a week long ski course this week and one of the guys and his wife will be skiing into Assiniboine next month with their 6-month old daughter on a sled. They've been biking, skiing, hiking and camping in the backcountry since she was 11 days old. Anyway, he said something interesting to me: "Most people who hear what we're doing aren't supportive. They think we're crazy. So you have to know in your heart that what you're doing is right, otherwise it can get pretty tough." That crystalized a lot of things for me. I do realize people are going to judge me and play the mom guilt card on me, but the bottom line is that all that matters is what I and my kids think.

Also, why is it so hilarious for a woman to expect her husband to share equally in the housework and childcare? I guess so far I'm lucky then, although I think it was more a matter of choosing a life partner who had similar values than luck. But your attitude seems very much "That's the status quo, just suck it up and deal with it." If every woman had that attitude, I guess we'd still be back where we were in the 1900s.

Anyway, I guess I'll have to update this thread in 3-5 years hopefully when I have kids and can let you know how I've worked things out.

Heh! For sure. Thank you.

Congratulations! to you as well.
We will have to share experiences post-birth. When is yours due? Mine is due Sept 7th so a bit of a way to go yet, I have my first check up next week with the Midwife. Only get mild nausea but am fine once I eat something, am eating more often I have noticed, yet not craving anything, do you get cravings for any particular foodstuff? I don't.

or 'institutionalisation'? Or rather a consequence of institutionalisation, when everyone in society is expected to admire babies, take care of them and endure self-imposed hardships and deprivations associated with parenthood.

Like a prisoner in a concentration camp finds joy in making bricks of perfect shape. Even if he knows these bricks will be used to build a gas chamber for him.

When the same prisoner is liberated, he would not know what to do. He got used to scarce, but regular meals in the camp. He is afraid of freedom, because he got so used to making bricks every day and was enjoying it to some degree.