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jt512
May 27, 2009, 4:05 PM
Post #26 of 61
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paborden wrote: *sigh* JT, I already sent you a PM saying I'd answer any questions you have in private. No need to be so angry about things.
I'm not angry. I'm just calling bullshit.
Edit: And for the record, your PM said nothing about your be willing to answer questions in private.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on May 27, 2009, 4:08 PM)
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camhead
May 27, 2009, 4:10 PM
Post #27 of 61
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God, I fucking hate salespeople.
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paborden
May 27, 2009, 4:25 PM
Post #28 of 61
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"Hey Jay,
Thanks for the response to my post. I appreciate the doubting :)
Anyway, next time you're out east, look me up if you're curious about what I do (other than the scam artist part lol).
Peter "
That was the PM. To me, "look me up" constituted an offer. If that wasn't obvious enough, to reiterate, I'd be glad to answer any questions you may have in private.
Thanks for your patience with this, guys. I'm notoriously bad about describing what I do.
(This post was edited by paborden on May 27, 2009, 4:27 PM)
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acorneau
May 27, 2009, 4:29 PM
Post #29 of 61
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bill413
May 27, 2009, 4:47 PM
Post #30 of 61
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acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image]
The other you go back to your banal existence of pulling down 5.12 on plastic holds.
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johnwesely
May 27, 2009, 8:16 PM
Post #31 of 61
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I don't think you understand. You are not going to make yourself look good by doing anything but ignoring JT512. He is a master of the craft of making you look like a douche. And trust me, you really don't need any help in that department.
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gogounou
May 27, 2009, 8:40 PM
Post #32 of 61
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T-3. Maybe 4, if you can get a few more pages out of it.
J
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hafilax
May 27, 2009, 9:09 PM
Post #33 of 61
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subtle? 
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bill413
May 28, 2009, 12:40 AM
Post #35 of 61
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irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. 
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jt512
May 28, 2009, 12:56 AM
Post #36 of 61
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bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: No, it's more like this. Now there's a very useful instrument.
I like the units: fecal/sec.
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bill413
May 28, 2009, 1:21 AM
Post #37 of 61
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jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. [image]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6183/bullshitamplifierdetect.gif[/image] Now there's a very useful instrument. I like the units: fecal/sec.
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spikeddem
May 28, 2009, 3:23 AM
Post #38 of 61
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bill413 wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. [image]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6183/bullshitamplifierdetect.gif[/image] Now there's a very useful instrument. I like the units: fecal/sec. Is that metric or imperial?
Universal 
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jt512
May 28, 2009, 3:58 AM
Post #40 of 61
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angry wrote: jt512 wrote: I'm not angry. It would be a violation of the TOS if you were.
Actually, it would be pretty funny if were.
Jay
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Toast_in_the_Machine
May 28, 2009, 11:55 AM
Post #41 of 61
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spikeddem wrote: bill413 wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. [image]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6183/bullshitamplifierdetect.gif[/image] Now there's a very useful instrument. I like the units: fecal/sec. Is that metric or imperial? Universal
Useless device here. I’ve re-checked it several times and the needle is always pegged.
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bill413
May 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
Post #42 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: spikeddem wrote: bill413 wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. [image]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6183/bullshitamplifierdetect.gif[/image] Now there's a very useful instrument. I like the units: fecal/sec. Is that metric or imperial? Universal Useless device here. I’ve re-checked it several times and the needle is always pegged. 
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hafilax
May 28, 2009, 6:54 PM
Post #43 of 61
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: spikeddem wrote: bill413 wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: irregularpanda wrote: acorneau wrote: [image]http://www.tmxclan.com/BlueRedPill.jpg[/image] No, it's more like this. [image]http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6183/bullshitamplifierdetect.gif[/image] Now there's a very useful instrument. I like the units: fecal/sec. Is that metric or imperial? Universal Useless device here. I’ve re-checked it several times and the needle is always pegged. 
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onceahardman
May 28, 2009, 7:37 PM
Post #44 of 61
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paborden wrote: "Hey Jay, Thanks for the response to my post. I appreciate the doubting :) Anyway, next time you're out east, look me up if you're curious about what I do (other than the scam artist part lol). Peter " That was the PM. To me, "look me up" constituted an offer. If that wasn't obvious enough, to reiterate, I'd be glad to answer any questions you may have in private. Thanks for your patience with this, guys. I'm notoriously bad about describing what I do.
Well, Peter, it seems you have opened the door regarding making the content of pm's public . I have communicated with Peter on the private side a bit, and if anybody's interested, I'll put the contents here. If it's time to let it die, I'll leave it alone.
In other news, the genius of "the strong work of angry", is seen clearly in the edit to the first post. You are a wily veteran. Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time.
Edited to try to fix cheesetitting.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on May 28, 2009, 7:40 PM)
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puerto
May 29, 2009, 1:04 AM
Post #45 of 61
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Not really.
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fdel13
May 29, 2009, 1:50 AM
Post #46 of 61
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paborden wrote: Thanks guys, I've edited this post 'cause I don't need any more responses. Appreciate your comments (and flames)...all of it's been way useful feedback for me.
well for historical, here's the original :), go go google cache
paborden wrote: What if I told you there's a magic mental pill you could take to climb harder? I'm currently refining the nuts and bolts of a mental training product for climbers that I've spent the last two years of my life developing, time spent sitting at the feet of gurus far and wide, learning their secrets, so I could finally bring them to the climbing community. At long last, that day has arrived. Thing is, I need testimonials from people. So, I'm looking to trade this knowledge for testimonials, assuming you like the work, of course. Not sure what form this will take yet -- maybe a weekend workshop, maybe a few hours one-on-one. If you're interested in getting your mental game up to par, and possibly providing a video testimonial, please shoot an email to paborden (at) gmail (dot) com. First, though, a disclaimer: by the end of our time together, you might have decided climbing's no longer for you. If you're willing to take that risk, email me anyway. Oh, and you've got to be in the Northeast to take part. I'll also be glad to answer any questions in this post. (This post was edited by paborden on May 26, 2009, 6:17 PM) |
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bill413
May 29, 2009, 2:06 AM
Post #48 of 61
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onceahardman wrote: Well, Peter, it seems you have opened the door regarding making the content of pm's public . I have communicated with Peter on the private side a bit, and if anybody's interested, I'll put the contents here. If it's time to let it die, I'll leave it alone.
In reply to: In other news, the genius of "the strong work of angry", is seen clearly in the edit to the first post. You are a wily veteran. Old age and treachery will beat youth and skill every time.
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onceahardman
May 29, 2009, 2:11 AM
Post #49 of 61
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Peter's #1:
Hey man,
Thanks so much for your reply, and for your skepticism. ;)
Would love to talk more about what I do, and answer any questions you might have, as well as get any feedback from you that you might have. As you can imagine, though, I just don't want to do it in an internet forum, especially not rc.com, so either phone or in person (better).
I'm in NYC right now and am up in the gunks fairly frequently, so let me know.
Best,
Peter
My response:
Peter,
I am a licensed health car professional in private practice. I get calls from sales reps making all kinds of claims regarding the efficacy of their products.
You have already made one false claim, and very likely two (You "usually charge hundreds of dollars an hour for this"). For WHAT? Something you haven't identified, and metaphorically refer to as a pill?
my practice is evidence-based. Your product, whatever it is, seems based in "gurus" and other mysticism.
Identify the product, and talk about it here, on the PM side. If you do so within two days, I'll keep it private. If not, I'll copy and paste this correspondence on the public side, to alert potential victims.
OAHM
Peter's #2:
Hey man,
Thanks for getting back to me. The claim that I charge hundreds of dollars an hour is quite true. Only I don't do it in the climbing community, my main work is helping people do the same work, but with dating and relationships. My weekend workshops cost $1795 for three days, somewhere between three and twelve people usually sign up, you can do the math from there.
You can imagine then that it's pretty obvious to both of us that I'm not going to make similar money from climbers, and I'm rather satisfied with what I'm making in other arenas. Thus, this is mainly a matter of releasing a product that, I feel, will bring immense value to the climbing community, and value that extends beyond their climbing life. Why charge and be so secretive, then? Well, first, as you can tell, I'm still figuring out how to articulate my work best, so being secretive is somewhat a byproduct of that and, second, people tend to only value what they pay for.
As for the gurus and mysticism thing, well, I guess I dug a hole for myself there. Totally understand how that may have come across wrong.
That said, a large portion of the work I do is derived from what gurus (i.e. Eckhart Tolle, Tony Robbins) teach. And a lot of it does come from mysticism. However, I've got about as much disdain for those folks as you do. Their methods are inexact, hard to follow, and often smack of quackery. I can't stand feel good bullshit, so you can imagine what I think of most of that stuff.
What I should have said, is that what I'm bringing to climbers is about as close to a magic pill as I could imagine. If that was too over the top, or misleading, I apologize. It wasn't meant to come across that way, and as a health care guy, I understand your sensitivity to the issue.
The difference between what I teach and quackery is that, as opposed to the hippie dippy, positive affirmation, bullshit that those guys teach, there's a system to my madness, and one that gets to the root of a lot of issues for people (hence, the disclaimer in the first post).
The product itself hasn't been developed yet, hence my post in the first place. Was that the first bogus claim you were referring to? I've spent the last two years learning what I'm about to bring to the climbing community, to the point that the product itself is pretty much an afterthought.
As for the work itself, one-on-one (or at least in-person) work is a huge component of it. What I do, to put it as simply as possible, is teach climbers how never to have off days, or off moments. Teach them how to be "in the zone" at all times, and this is based on specific methodology and strategies that have barely been released in the public sphere. It's complicated stuff, and stuff that's hard to communicate in PM (phone is better, if you're interested, I'm more than willing).
Another way to put it would be that if you've ever had one of those moments when you've been in the zone, there's a way you were carrying yourself that's 1) different from how you normally carry yourself somatically and 2) different from how anyone else carries themselves. My work is all about teaching you the somatic position you hold when you're in the zone, climbing at your best, and teach you the ability to reset to this whenever you want to (say, when you're clipping). And this is done, not through some mantra or other bs, but by teaching you to trigger certain muscles that I'd almost guarantee are at the fringe of your current awareness.
Another huge component of all of this is bran network functions and how, if one of networks 1-6 is being misused, symptoms will often appear in one's climbing. And this is very common. This misuse often stems from a traumatic event in childhood, which is very common in our society. To give you an example, until about 15 years ago, a common practice amongst midwives was to cut the umbilical cord too soon, thus making a child's first breath painful -- a traumatic event -- and thereby slightly impede breathing going forward. One of many examples.
There's a ton for me to go into about this stuff, so if you'd like to know more, please let me know.
Be well,
Peter
My reply:
Peter, you said you'd answer specific questions, so I'll keep this brief.
1) How many people have you helped climb measurably harder?
2) How do you know that your method caused the improvement? Did you use a control?
3) Name 5 people who got better as a result of your methods, and please provide a method of contacting them, so I can verify your findings.
If your methods are not transparent, skeptics will rule the day.
Peter's #3 Interspersed with my reply to save space:
In reply to:As for #1 & #2, I can't comment because I'm only just now starting to bring these techniques over to the climbing community.
You CAN answer. The answer is zero. You have helped zero climbers, and you have no mechanism in place to assess improvement. The answer to #2 is NO.
In reply to:I'm 100% confident myself that they'll be effective (otherwise I wouldn't bother) but I realize my own confidence isn't enough. Hence the post.
100% confident? When your dentist fills a cavity, he or she is not 100% it will relieve your pain, because fewer than 100% will receive benefit. There are no medical procedures which are 100% effective. You are continuing to make false claims, and this is getting foolish.
In reply to:I'm looking to give my work away for free and see what people get out of it. If it doesn't work for anyone? No product. I'm not here to sell things.
I believe that all behavior is purposeful. There is some motivation for you doing this. I suspect your motive is not purely for the good of others, but rather to enrich yourself. My evidence is your lack of forthrightness.
In reply to:More on #2. If you were doing this, what type of control would you use? I think you brought up a lot of really valid stuff in your posts, so any feedback you could give on this would be appreciated. What would you need to feel confident what I'll be testing works, and isn't a fraud?
I am not really interested in teaching you how to convince people of the "100% confidence" you claim, without any support.
In reply to:#3. No climbers yet, though I'm meeting with some this week. I've got a fair number of former clients in other arenas who I could put in touch with you if you're interested. However, I would have to speak with you on the phone first. I can't just have people contacting my clients willy nilly, with no clear benefit on my part, by a party I don't know personally, and whose phone etiquette I can't vouch for.
So there we have it. You are interested in personal "benefit", and therein lies your motivation.
In reply to:Any other suggestions are welcome.
Try selling your products elsewhere. You will be rightfully flamed here. You have talked about many things your system is not. You have provided no detail about what it is.
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ryanb
May 29, 2009, 2:31 AM
Post #50 of 61
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paborden wrote: I might just take it to the pros and let them have it as their little secret for some time. ... it's generally much better working with people I don't know too well, better results that way. ... As a peculiar blend of hypnosis, tibetan buddhism, and the like ...
I do believe you are Drukpa Kunleyreturned to bless us with your "Flaiming Thunderbolt of Wisdom."( NSFWbut traditional drawing .)
"tibetan buddhism, and the like" seriously? "and the like"????Sounds like you just took a bunch of stuff that sounded spiritual to you and crammed it together?
If you are serious tell us who you are and show us what you've done.
Unless you can produce picture of you on something like "free rider" we are getting better advice for free.
If you can't you are just some anonymous dude in new york city trying to start a cult and I doubt you have a friend who would vouch for you.
I'm not Buddhist or religious but close friends and family are and i've studied it. So far you are coming off as trying to make a buck off it in the most disgusting way possible.
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