It's the internet.

All I know is I do it and it works. I was very surprised just last night doing my weekly campusing session, I went from a previous best of six-7 reps on the smaller rungs to eight, on three different sets, In one week. I never would have thought safe gains could be made so quickly.

I'd love to see some people do this once a week for a month and report back.

Cool! Thanks... I figured there was someone not posting who might be as excited as me about this. I'm sure it's all been done before but it's new to me and I've been climbing forever it seems.

If anyone wants help with this just pm me, a couple others already have.

If someone ever does exactly what I've suggested for a whole month, I WILL get more stars, lol. I am simply astounded as to how much of a difference it makes. Just as significant as that, it doesn't hurt my connective tissue, only my muscles get sore. Between the two rung sizes I use, and by adding up to 30 lbs of weight, one could go from v6 to v13 with just these two rung sizes and variations in weight.

Honestly, your right. It does make a difference. Just look at how many injuries i've had.... yet many of my friends have had one or none.

However, I DO think pretty much anyone can get to v10.... beyond that.......

Me personally, I probably couldn't get past v10 if I had to do crimper problems, without getting injured, I already proved that 7 times! LOL

For me, if I stay open handed.... It seems I can try as hard as I want without any issues.

I assume alot of people are in the same boat. Crimping puts more stress on your connective tissue than open hand.

What about Verne Troyer (or someone of a similar stature)?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Entertainment/images-4/verne-troyer-3.jpg

I'd like to say YES, almost anyone could do it. For example, anyone willing to do the following/basically the work.

-5% body fat.
-Spend 5+ years training power with bouldering/power oriented training.
-Climb open handed 90% of your climbing.
-Get enough nutrients
-stay injury or almost injury free/by doing what you'll find in that forum

It's possible for anyone to do those things if they desired. None of those things have much to do with genetic limitations.

I don't believe one could say they couldn't climb v10 due to anything but personal limiting beliefs until they've done the above listed things, imo.

I was tested at 6.5% body fat at 5 11 3/4 and 158 lbs this weekend. I plan on cutting about 4 lbs and getting to 5% then maintaining that.

FYI, I would have disagreed with me one year ago ;)

You must be looking at the wrong picture if you think an 8 year old girl and a little person have same body types...


I'm not trying to be inconsiderate, so I hope I don't come across that way

I think whether the average climber could climb V10 is an interesting topic of conversation. In Dave Graham's rambling wizardry interview he says he thinks the average climber can get to V10 because it's just "not that hard." As a mediocre/poor climber, I hope he's at least partially right.

Hmm. I don't have any evidence; the only argument I can really make is "Why not V11?" If you think anyone could do V11, then why not V12? (and so on)

I don't know if ANYONE could, but I'll half agree and say the majority could. Although the majority is not willing to put in the work that it takes to get to that level.

I'd like to say YES, almost anyone could do it. For example, anyone willing to do the following/basically the work.

-5% body fat.
-Spend 5+ years training power with bouldering/power oriented training.
-Climb open handed 90% of your climbing.
-Get enough nutrients
-stay injury or almost injury free/by doing what you'll find in that forum

It's possible for anyone to do those things if they desired. None of those things have much to do with genetic limitations.

I don't believe one could say they couldn't climb v10 due to anything but personal limiting beliefs until they've done the above listed things, imo.

I was tested at 6.5% body fat at 5 11 3/4 and 158 lbs this weekend. I plan on cutting about 4 lbs and getting to 5% then maintaining that.

FYI, I would have disagreed with me one year ago ;)

Couple of small updates on this.

One, I've cut another 3 lbs for 17 lbs total.... I've got 3-4 lbs to go which will put me at 6 0 154. It's getting very hard to trim at this point ... I'm around 6.5% body fat now.

Two, I've continued to do my campus workout, I no longer ever use the larger rung because it's to easy for me to do 8+ reps with 30 lbs hanging on me.

I'm using the one pad rungs now, doing doubles, skipping one rung on the way up and one on the way down. 3 weeks ago when I did this I managed a best of 7 reps without weight. Yesterday I did it again and managed 8 reps on 3 different sets with 10 lbs added! Pretty psyched, definately a measurable improvement. I haven't been able to do a harder grade bouldering yet but I have been seeing my onsight level and the rate at which I can dispose of boulder problems below my max speed up. I estimate that by the time I can do 8 reps on this one pad rung, doubles, with 30 lbs, I should do v13. It may take a year or two though, well see, things are going very well and there is no plateau in sight.

A side note, by staying away from crimping as much as possible, and by losing even more weight, I've noticed my body/fingers hurt less in general, I'm able to climb at a high level every other day.... the only time i feel beat down is if I crimp.

It's surprising to me how much less it hurts to climb in general being so light weight and because I can climb more at a high level in general I'm sure that will pay dividends in terms of overall strength and by being able to workout more, longer, it will be easier to cut the weight off.

BTW, I only crimp at my max power level about once a month. Usually because im outside and a problem has one crimp or I'm at a comp and I can't be competitive without doing a couple crimper problems.

What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?

If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?

Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?

Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?

I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ

-----very classy, congratulations on resorting to insults.

What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?

If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?

Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?

Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?

I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ

*stuff*

I didn't insult you.

So, you edit your post, remove the insults, and then claim you didn't insult anybody?

Just lovely.

this is a different thread ,
don't get confused by lack of compassion for your fellow rockclimber.

Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics, have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

Are you a teenager?


(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 22, 2011, 1:58 AM)

Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics,----genetics make a big difference, i've been surrounded by mutants for years, however, v10 isn't mutant level. One of my main climbing partners could do pull ups off one pad middle finger monos when he could only boulder v7, I still can't do this. FYI, he went from v7 to v13 in 3 years and now is winning competitions.

have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

---------my diet is listed in one of my other threads here. For most people, if you burn more calories than you eat, you will lose fat. Are you saying that if people burn 2500 calories/day and eat 2000 they won't lose fat?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

----they probably workout the same, apparently they spend alot of time together, stands to reason

Are you a teenager?

For the folks reading this that aren't posting I'd like to add that all these naysayers are one of the biggest challenges to your success. For the record, I would've been amongst these naysayers just 1 year ago, even though at that point I had 10 years experience and had already climbed at a reasonably high level for a long time.

My point is this, the reason that you are at the level your at is because of the stories your telling yourself. Some of them may be true, some of them half true and some of them that your totally convinced of will in hindsight become completely untrue. Expect the unexpected.

Make it a habit to prove yourself and others wrong and you'll realize your potential.

I can't tell you how many climbers I've discussed weight loss with that claim that they can't lose fat or that if they we're to cut calories that their climbing would suffer because they would lose muscle or that they already have low body fat, there just big boned, etc. Some of them trusted me enough to get past their own disbelief and to just TRY it. They have all been very happy with the results. It's very difficult and takes commitment but it's worth it, if your desire is to see your climbing take off more than most anything else.

I'm glad people don't believe me, because their posts give the others reading this thread the chance to see some of the stories that folks tell themselves so that they don't have deal with the truth. Most intelligent folks have very intelligent reasons for why they aren't getting what they want. It's much easier to create a solid alibi then to make changes.

Do you want good reasons or do you want to make breakthroughs?

I hover around 4% body fat. What I should I be doing to be beast climber?

Apparently all you need to do now is campus.

Supra

How many times a day?

Dunno, you'll have to ask flesh that one. I'm still wrapping my head around dropping two rungs with 30lbs on me. How's the planche push ups coming along?

Supra

...I started climbing right when I turned 17. I did my first v10 at 21, at 22 i had done a dozen v10's and a dozen v9's outside...

I started climbing right when I turned 17. I did my first v10 at 21, at 22 i had done a dozen v10's and a dozen v9's outside.

At 23 I got a horrid injury because I was power crimping to much and apparently I'm not a mutant like alot of my friends. I took a couple years off, my finger hurt just walking around during this time. I climbed infrequently from about 25-28, never harder than v8 and a few select v9's. At 28 I took it serious for a bit and did one v10, my finger started hurting a bit, I didn't want to have to take a bunch of time off again, so I started tuning it down again. 6 month's ago I started tuning it up again. About 4 months ago, i started the process of cutting 20 lbs from 176 to 156 so far and developing power training/climbing strategies that wouldn't hurt my fingers. I'm better than I've ever been and still on a huge upswing. I assume since most of us aren't mutants, this type of training will become prevalent in the future as a way to safely power train without getting hurt for mutants and non mutants.

My plan is to get to 153ish then stop dieting. The power training described in this thread is priceless if your goal is to get stronger and your worried about getting injured in the process. It's simply the best way I've found to do so. Try it and you will see. I'm working on building a garage wall that will allow me to do the same workout but on a horizontal roof on pinches.

Hopefully that clears that up for you.

While I generally don't care what other people climb, I think as soon as someone offers advice, and uses their achievements as a reason or foundation for being listened to, they ought to be more transparent and forthcoming about those achievements...

Have you considered letting the skeptics, myself included, know what v10s, 11s, or 12s you've done?

Or are you going to keep dodging those questions?

Flesh you deleted all your posts with a thread with so many responses, Why?
Where are the photos /videos of your bouldering v10's , v11's, v12's?
Do you think everyone will forget on rockclimbing.com?

Been away for quite some time. Glad to know this place is still weird.

I'm pretty sure I did my first consensus V10 at age 43--after climbing 20 years. Go figure.

Curt

...asks the 5.6 n00b.

Curt