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Jooler


Mar 22, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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I don't know if ANYONE could, but I'll half agree and say the majority could. Although the majority is not willing to put in the work that it takes to get to that level.


userdude


Mar 23, 2011, 2:00 AM
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Re: [Jooler] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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^ my thoughts, exactly.


ceebo


Mar 23, 2011, 7:58 AM
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Re: [spikeddem] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Hmm. I don't have any evidence; the only argument I can really make is "Why not V11?" If you think anyone could do V11, then why not V12? (and so on)

He does have a point, but i don't think you can say such a specific number.

Seems to me that the avg climber doing 2-3 day a week and not using campus boards and hang boards etc.. are stuck between late 5.11's and early 5.12's. Also seems allot of these people have been stuck their for years. ''On avg'' is probably not a good term here, perhaps its better to say that 2 out of every 3 climbers seem to be in this zone.

People climbing 4-6 days per week and/or using campus/hang boards are clearly going to push those numbers up, id say 5.12 - 5.13, or v6/v10 on avg. Obviously their can not be exact number.. v6/v10 is a huge range.. but that totally factors in the fact that we are human and individual.. adding many variables.

If we were all robots programed to the exact.. i would say yes, their would be a specific number of days/methods of training that result in ALL robots climbing v10.

But you can look at the grade people climb, compare that to the number of days they train and how.. and use it as some basic guide. I find it amusing that in the face of all the evidance of how effective campus boards and so are (as in alot of people using them climb hard) the avg person still fails to accept them as a means to train.. i think they can not be bothered personally.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 23, 2011, 8:02 AM)


saint_john


Mar 23, 2011, 8:45 AM
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Re: [Jooler] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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Jooler wrote:
I don't know if ANYONE could, but I'll half agree and say the majority could. Although the majority is not willing to put in the work that it takes to get to that level.

I agree.
Anyone who is 5% body fat, took preventative measures not to get injured, and trained hard for 5 years could send V10, could be a competitive marathoner, could win a Catagory 1 bike race, etc...


(This post was edited by saint_john on Mar 23, 2011, 8:47 AM)


flesh


Apr 21, 2011, 1:37 PM
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Stormeh


Apr 21, 2011, 1:58 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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You guys are off your rocker if you think anyone or even close to anyone can attain V10 with the right amount of training. Climbing a V10 automatically puts you at the top of the bell curve when it comes to genetics that benefit climbing.


(This post was edited by Stormeh on Apr 21, 2011, 2:09 PM)


flesh


Apr 21, 2011, 2:07 PM
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erisspirit


Apr 21, 2011, 4:34 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
flesh wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
flesh wrote:
Rufsen wrote:
Sounds like a perfectly sound recruitment phase. Will probably try something like that out in the fall after this season is over, not going to change anything in my training right now.

I don't see why people are giving you 1 star for these posts. This is not radically different from campusing excersices described in SCC or Rockprodigys article.


If someone ever does exactly what I've suggested for a whole month, I WILL get more stars, lol. I am simply astounded as to how much of a difference it makes. Just as significant as that, it doesn't hurt my connective tissue, only my muscles get sore. Between the two rung sizes I use, and by adding up to 30 lbs of weight, one could go from v6 to v13 with just these two rung sizes and variations in weight.
I'm with you on a lot of things, but do you honestly think that genetics don't play a role here? There are many, many people that simply would never be able to climb V10, much less V13.

I mean, honestly, Daniel Woods could just as easily come on here and post what he has done and say hat anyone could go from V13 to V15/V16, but do you think that'd happen for everyone?

Honestly, your right. It does make a difference. Just look at how many injuries i've had.... yet many of my friends have had one or none.

However, I DO think pretty much anyone can get to v10.... beyond that.......

Me personally, I probably couldn't get past v10 if I had to do crimper problems, without getting injured, I already proved that 7 times! LOL

For me, if I stay open handed.... It seems I can try as hard as I want without any issues.

I assume alot of people are in the same boat. Crimping puts more stress on your connective tissue than open hand.
You really think anyone can get to V10? It's hard to say, but I'm not so sure.

I'd like to say YES, almost anyone could do it. For example, anyone willing to do the following/basically the work.

-5% body fat.
-Spend 5+ years training power with bouldering/power oriented training.
-Climb open handed 90% of your climbing.
-Get enough nutrients
-stay injury or almost injury free/by doing what you'll find in that forum

It's possible for anyone to do those things if they desired. None of those things have much to do with genetic limitations.

I don't believe one could say they couldn't climb v10 due to anything but personal limiting beliefs until they've done the above listed things, imo.

I was tested at 6.5% body fat at 5 11 3/4 and 158 lbs this weekend. I plan on cutting about 4 lbs and getting to 5% then maintaining that.

FYI, I would have disagreed with me one year ago ;)


So is the "Anyone can climb V10" idea only for men? because I'm pretty sure women shouldn't be cutting down to 5% body fat.


enigma


Apr 22, 2011, 1:40 AM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
Couple of small updates on this.

One, I've cut another 3 lbs for 17 lbs total.... I've got 3-4 lbs to go which will put me at 6 0 154. It's getting very hard to trim at this point ... I'm around 6.5% body fat now.

Two, I've continued to do my campus workout, I no longer ever use the larger rung because it's to easy for me to do 8+ reps with 30 lbs hanging on me.

I'm using the one pad rungs now, doing doubles, skipping one rung on the way up and one on the way down. 3 weeks ago when I did this I managed a best of 7 reps without weight. Yesterday I did it again and managed 8 reps on 3 different sets with 10 lbs added! Pretty psyched, definately a measurable improvement. I haven't been able to do a harder grade bouldering yet but I have been seeing my onsight level and the rate at which I can dispose of boulder problems below my max speed up. I estimate that by the time I can do 8 reps on this one pad rung, doubles, with 30 lbs, I should do v13. It may take a year or two though, well see, things are going very well and there is no plateau in sight.

A side note, by staying away from crimping as much as possible, and by losing even more weight, I've noticed my body/fingers hurt less in general, I'm able to climb at a high level every other day.... the only time i feel beat down is if I crimp.

It's surprising to me how much less it hurts to climb in general being so light weight and because I can climb more at a high level in general I'm sure that will pay dividends in terms of overall strength and by being able to workout more, longer, it will be easier to cut the weight off.

BTW, I only crimp at my max power level about once a month. Usually because im outside and a problem has one crimp or I'm at a comp and I can't be competitive without doing a couple crimper problems.
\
Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics, have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

Are you a teenager?


(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 22, 2011, 1:58 AM)


flesh


Apr 22, 2011, 10:22 AM
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flesh


Apr 22, 2011, 10:43 AM
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csproul


Apr 22, 2011, 11:20 AM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
Stormeh wrote:
You guys are off your rocker if you think anyone or even close to anyone attain V10 with the right amount of training. Climbing a V10 automatically puts you at the top of the bell curve when it comes to genetic that benefit climbing.

What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?

If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?

Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?

Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?

I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ
I can't really say if anything you say is correct training-wise. You could be completely full of shit for all I know, but I sure do like your attitude.


johnwesely


Apr 22, 2011, 11:25 AM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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I hover around 4% body fat. What I should I be doing to be beast climber?


enigma


Apr 22, 2011, 1:24 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
enigma wrote:
flesh wrote:
Couple of small updates on this.

One, I've cut another 3 lbs for 17 lbs total.... I've got 3-4 lbs to go which will put me at 6 0 154. It's getting very hard to trim at this point ... I'm around 6.5% body fat now.

Two, I've continued to do my campus workout, I no longer ever use the larger rung because it's to easy for me to do 8+ reps with 30 lbs hanging on me.

I'm using the one pad rungs now, doing doubles, skipping one rung on the way up and one on the way down. 3 weeks ago when I did this I managed a best of 7 reps without weight. Yesterday I did it again and managed 8 reps on 3 different sets with 10 lbs added! Pretty psyched, definately a measurable improvement. I haven't been able to do a harder grade bouldering yet but I have been seeing my onsight level and the rate at which I can dispose of boulder problems below my max speed up. I estimate that by the time I can do 8 reps on this one pad rung, doubles, with 30 lbs, I should do v13. It may take a year or two though, well see, things are going very well and there is no plateau in sight.

A side note, by staying away from crimping as much as possible, and by losing even more weight, I've noticed my body/fingers hurt less in general, I'm able to climb at a high level every other day.... the only time i feel beat down is if I crimp.

It's surprising to me how much less it hurts to climb in general being so light weight and because I can climb more at a high level in general I'm sure that will pay dividends in terms of overall strength and by being able to workout more, longer, it will be easier to cut the weight off.

BTW, I only crimp at my max power level about once a month. Usually because im outside and a problem has one crimp or I'm at a comp and I can't be competitive without doing a couple crimper problems.
\
Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics,----genetics make a big difference, i've been surrounded by mutants for years, however, v10 isn't mutant level. One of my main climbing partners could do pull ups off one pad middle finger monos when he could only boulder v7, I still can't do this. FYI, he went from v7 to v13 in 3 years and now is winning competitions.

have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

---------my diet is listed in one of my other threads here. For most people, if you burn more calories than you eat, you will lose fat. Are you saying that if people burn 2500 calories/day and eat 2000 they won't lose fat?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

----they probably workout the same, apparently they spend alot of time together, stands to reason

Are you a teenager?

-----very classy, congratulations on resorting to insults.


I didn't insult you. I just asked to see some evidence. Surely you understand that you can say anything on the internet. If you are bouldering , you must have a friend to take photos of your outstanding accomplishments.
You obviously don't understand genetics. Or the studies done, on identical twins raised apart.
If you are a teenager, why not admit it?
Why don't you answer the questions? Or would it prove this entire thread wrong. Crazy


Stormeh


Apr 22, 2011, 1:50 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
What bouldering bell curve are you speaking of?
I know of no bouldering specific curve, but the curve published in Horst's "Training for Climbing" book show the percentage of dedicated climbers that can climb 5.12 or higher to be very low compared to the rest (I don't have the book in front of me, I can edit with percentages later.) And that's only 5.12! You realize that a V10 roughly equates to 5.13d moves (at least on a number of conversion charts found on the net)? It amazes me that you think any person can pull 5.13d moves without any sort of genetic gifting, through purely hard work.

In reply to:
If there was one that was accurate, would it look different in 20 years? What would it have looked like 20 years ago?
I agree that the grades climbers can succeed at have inflated over the years, however, I attribute this primarily to the existence of better technology (sticky rubber, better pro, etc.) as well as the prevalence of climbing specific training options (gyms, hangboards, etc.) I don't think we will see the kind of explosion in grades in the next 20 years as we have in the past 20.

In reply to:
Have you met someone who's been 5% body fat for 5 years and regularly bouldered and power trained who can't climb v10? Is it in most people's control to get to 5% body fat and boulder/power train regularly for five years? Could most people choose to climb certain types of holds and climbs that are less likely to injure you?
I know several climbers that have ~ 5% body fat and have regularly bouldered and trained for 5 years, and none of them climb V10. Perhaps V7, on a good day. Although this is purely anecdotal, it does not seem to agree with your assertion as you seem to think it would.

In reply to:
Do we really know what's possible given the lack of sport science in climbing?
No, we don't know what's possible. We're both just making educated guesses here.

In reply to:
I'm not saying you've mistaken, just that, much, much more is possible than most people believe and that I think this debate would be totally different in twenty years.

Bottom line is, which philosophy is most likely to allow you to succeed? Would you prefer to be right or to be more successful?

PZ
I like your philosophy. It is very positive and will no doubt take you further than a self defeatist attitude. However, I still disagree with your assertion that anyone, or even most people, could attain V10 with the right amount of training and hard work.

Stormeh


flesh


Apr 22, 2011, 2:27 PM
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flesh


Apr 22, 2011, 2:54 PM
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enigma


Apr 22, 2011, 9:10 PM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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Until you produce photos of these V9-V-12's of you bouldering. I call your bluff. It's all talk on the internet. Walk the Walk, Boulder the Rock. We want proof,. Or this is just B.S. !

Get a cheap camera, and have someone take photos. No photo-shopping allowed.

How many days ? Wink

You can get photos developed in an hour.
By Monday. April 25. 2011.


sungam


Apr 23, 2011, 6:47 AM
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Re: [flesh] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
erisspirit wrote:
So is the "Anyone can climb V10" idea only for men? because I'm pretty sure women shouldn't be cutting down to 5% body fat.
*stuff*

Here's the first link of google from a search for "health problems caused by low body fat in women": http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00342.
The first time I heard about low body fat % issues was in Dave MacLeod's book, which had a fair amount of information on the subject. I'm sure you'll be able to dig out plenty more information around the internet, through you'll probably have to shovel through sites and sites of dieting plans from having the word "fat" in your search.


onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Re: [enigma] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
I didn't insult you.

So, you edit your post, remove the insults, and then claim you didn't insult anybody?

Just lovely.


enigma


Apr 23, 2011, 1:00 PM
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Re: [onceahardman] v9-v12 in 3 months, my power training. [In reply to]
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onceahardman wrote:
In reply to:
I didn't insult you.

So, you edit your post, remove the insults, and then claim you didn't insult anybody?

Just lovely.

Crazy

this is a different thread ,
don't get confused by lack of compassion for your fellow rockclimber.



(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 23, 2011, 1:05 PM)


flesh


Apr 23, 2011, 1:32 PM
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onceahardman


Apr 23, 2011, 1:55 PM
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enigma wrote:
onceahardman wrote:
In reply to:
I didn't insult you.

So, you edit your post, remove the insults, and then claim you didn't insult anybody?

Just lovely.

Crazy

this is a different thread ,
don't get confused by lack of compassion for your fellow rockclimber.

Oh, I have good clarity on this. Your edited post (including the edit notice):

enigma wrote:
Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics, have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

Are you a teenager?


(This post was edited by enigma on Apr 22, 2011, 1:58 AM)

BUT- what you said first was:

enigma wrote:
Pictures Please

While you disagree with genetics,----genetics make a big difference, i've been surrounded by mutants for years, however, v10 isn't mutant level. One of my main climbing partners could do pull ups off one pad middle finger monos when he could only boulder v7, I still can't do this. FYI, he went from v7 to v13 in 3 years and now is winning competitions.

have you ever seen identical twins raised apart with different diets and training?
Or ones that were raised in different families, who didn't even know the other one existed.
Guess what they weigh? , stays within a few pounds of each other. When trained for a sport their body types , muscles remain quite similiar.
Sure you can change some of the variables, However genetics plays a major part.

What does your diet consist of?

---------my diet is listed in one of my other threads here. For most people, if you burn more calories than you eat, you will lose fat. Are you saying that if people burn 2500 calories/day and eat 2000 they won't lose fat?

I have two friends of mine who are ironman/ironwoman.
They train hard and have been for 10 years or more. However they had a natural body type for running,swimming,biking for those intense competitions.
Of course if they never decided to compete. Who knows what they could do.

It's training and genetics both.

I've trained with those Winklevoss twins, guess what when they row apart their pace, split is almost identical.

----they probably workout the same, apparently they spend alot of time together, stands to reason

Are you a teenager?

So you edited, and removed some things that might be perceived as insults, then you innocently stated you had not insulted anyone.

It's not the crime, it's the coverup.

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