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adatesman
Nov 8, 2013, 2:39 AM
Post #226 of 430
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curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: ...ultimately the remaining long time active posters don't matter. Ad revenue does. That's where there is obviously a large difference of opinion. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I have to think that Jeff cares something about providing a product that caters to real rock climbers--otherwise, if page hits and revenue are the only things that matter, he may as well just convert RC.com to a porn site. Curt Nor you mine. I take it then you've not worked your MENSA google-fu and figured out who Jeff is? Evidence is there if you care to look for it. Aric, Yes I do know who Jeff is. I'll still stand by my above comment. Curt Well then Curt, I can only point you to the OP, where Jeff clearly states he wants nothing to do with porn. I'm not sure you actually understood my comment. Curt
Nor you mine.
(edit for cheeztit)
(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 8, 2013, 2:44 AM)
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dr_feelgood
Nov 8, 2013, 2:47 AM
Post #227 of 430
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adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: ...ultimately the remaining long time active posters don't matter. Ad revenue does. That's where there is obviously a large difference of opinion. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I have to think that Jeff cares something about providing a product that caters to real rock climbers--otherwise, if page hits and revenue are the only things that matter, he may as well just convert RC.com to a porn site. Curt Nor you mine. I take it then you've not worked your MENSA google-fu and figured out who Jeff is? Evidence is there if you care to look for it. Aric, Yes I do know who Jeff is. I'll still stand by my above comment. Curt Well then Curt, I can only point you to the OP, where Jeff clearly states he wants nothing to do with porn. I'm not sure you actually understood my comment. Curt Nor you mine. (edit for cheeztit)
Don't mention tits, or your post will be hidden. You have been warned.
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macherry
Nov 8, 2013, 2:53 AM
Post #228 of 430
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aric, it makes no difference to me why the new owner bought the site. if he makes money...good for him. this place has been barely on life support for the past few years. if he can improve things.....again good for him. i wish him the best.
all i can say is, this is the most i've visited rc.com in the past while.
more popcorn please
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adatesman
Nov 8, 2013, 3:35 AM
Post #232 of 430
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macherry wrote: aric, it makes no difference to me why the new owner bought the site. if he makes money...good for him. this place has been barely on life support for the past few years. if he can improve things.....again good for him. i wish him the best. all i can say is, this is the most i've visited rc.com in the past while. more popcorn please
I completely understand that, Marge.
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curt
Nov 8, 2013, 5:05 AM
Post #236 of 430
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adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: That's where there is obviously a large difference of opinion. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I have to think that Jeff cares something about providing a product that caters to real rock climbers--otherwise, if page hits and revenue are the only things that matter, he may as well just convert RC.com to a porn site. Curt I take it then you've not worked your MENSA google-fu and figured out who Jeff is? Evidence is there if you care to look for it. Aric, Yes I do know who Jeff is. I'll still stand by my above comment. Curt Tell you what, Curt.... Since you know who Jeff is and stand by your comment, kindly post a business model he should follow. Easy enough to tell if you're correct in your assessment when all is said and done. Aric, Jeff PM'd me proactively and said he would like to talk. I'm planning on connecting with him and sharing my thoughts. Curt You do realize he's done that with *everyone who's posted in this thread*, right? Got mine a week ago, before I even popped back onto RC.
Well, that's as it should be, right? Jeff should get inputs from everyone concerned.
Curt
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adatesman
Nov 8, 2013, 5:07 AM
Post #237 of 430
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curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: curt wrote: That's where there is obviously a large difference of opinion. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I have to think that Jeff cares something about providing a product that caters to real rock climbers--otherwise, if page hits and revenue are the only things that matter, he may as well just convert RC.com to a porn site. Curt I take it then you've not worked your MENSA google-fu and figured out who Jeff is? Evidence is there if you care to look for it. Aric, Yes I do know who Jeff is. I'll still stand by my above comment. Curt Tell you what, Curt.... Since you know who Jeff is and stand by your comment, kindly post a business model he should follow. Easy enough to tell if you're correct in your assessment when all is said and done. Aric, Jeff PM'd me proactively and said he would like to talk. I'm planning on connecting with him and sharing my thoughts. Curt You do realize he's done that with *everyone who's posted in this thread*, right? Got mine a week ago, before I even popped back onto RC. Well, that's as it should be, right? Jeff should get inputs from everyone concerned. Curt
Bunch of missing posts.
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theguy
Nov 8, 2013, 5:21 AM
Post #238 of 430
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Posts: 469
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angry wrote: I honestly don't see a way to save this site. It is a tarnished brand and a joke. What's more, it does not have a single reason to visit other than the forums. Forums are essentially bathroom stall walls. People will write bullshit just to see their own bullshit. I'm as guilty as anyone. Not everyone wants to see that. Look at MP.com, I know very few people who post there yet nearly everyone I've met uses the site. What reason does anyone have to use this site if not to post? Finally, if you do want to save the site, lets be perfectly clear. jt512 has driven more users, some quality, away from this site than any other problem. Of course this is anecdotal but I believe it to be true. When he gets going, he provides a truly close up look at mental illness. Had he never visited the site, I bet we'd still be seeing 2010 type of traffic. I never noticed the spam, it was harmless and funny.
+1
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adatesman
Nov 8, 2013, 5:27 AM
Post #239 of 430
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Seriously Curt, what is your goal here, and how does showing your penis is longer than mine help Jeff?
I wanted to keep this private, but as I said in my PM to you, the only reason I even showed back up here is because a friend who might have some sway in the direction the site takes suggested to Jeff he find a way to bring me back to run The Lab. Sounded nice at the time, and I floated my willingness to restore much of what I pulled due to a personal falling out between DDT and myself.
I've since been intentionally pushing buttons to see just how bad it might get while Jeff and I find time to chat, and frankly you, JT and whoever else have made it abundantly clear that I'm not welcome here. Kinda fitting, as my first real entry onto RC was an argument with JT with you helping (use of hardware store quicklinks), followed by you two calling for my head over something Phil told me to do at my leaving. And now you two and whomever else continuing 1-star my every post and be argumentative upon my return.
Tell me, Curt, if you were in my position and could put back all of my 3000+ posts, would you?
Doesn't matter, as neither me nor my content is wanted. Jeff, kindly banz me as I asked via PM. Still call if you like, but I don't see a way out of this that works for me.
(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 8, 2013, 5:31 AM)
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robdotcalm
Nov 8, 2013, 5:40 AM
Post #240 of 430
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Posts: 1027
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curt wrote: adatesman wrote: granite_grrl wrote: I find it odd Aric that you quit this site in a rather dramatic manor then return to explain how it should change so it can be just like other sites that currently exist on the web. There's a reason why there's a number of us long time users who are still active posters on RC.com. Fact of the matter is I'm bitter. I bought into the vision of what RC could be, only to see it crash and burn. it's pretty clear you're still bitter. The fact is you locked horns with the previous management and they did not agree with you. In their opinion, you were wrong and you lost. adatesman wrote: ...ultimately the remaining long time active posters don't matter. Ad revenue does. That's where there is obviously a large difference of opinion. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I have to think that Jeff cares something about providing a product that caters to real rock climbers--otherwise, if page hits and revenue are the only things that matter, he may as well just convert RC.com to a porn site. Curt
Easier said than done. Internet porn is a sophisticated and highly competitive business.
Rob.cslm
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curt
Nov 8, 2013, 6:03 AM
Post #241 of 430
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adatesman wrote: Seriously Curt, what is your goal here, and how does showing your penis is longer than mine help Jeff? I wanted to keep this private, but as I said in my PM to you, the only reason I even showed back up here is because a friend who might have some sway in the direction the site takes suggested to Jeff he find a way to bring me back to run The Lab. Sounded nice at the time, and I floated my willingness to restore much of what I pulled due to a personal falling out between DDT and myself. I've since been intentionally pushing buttons to see just how bad it might get while Jeff and I find time to chat, and frankly you, JT and whoever else have made it abundantly clear that I'm not welcome here. Kinda fitting, as my first real entry onto RC was an argument with JT with you helping (use of hardware store quicklinks), followed by you two calling for my head over something Phil told me to do at my leaving. And now you two and whomever else continuing 1-star my every post and be argumentative upon my return. Tell me, Curt, if you were in my position and could put back all of my 3000+ posts, would you? Doesn't matter, as neither me nor my content is wanted. Jeff, kindly banz me as I asked via PM. Still call if you like, but I don't see a way out of this that works for me.
Aric, I really don't know how to respond. Do you think your juvenile reference to penises helps you to make your case? You see this as some sort of zero sum game where I need to lose in order for you to win. Obviously, that's not constructive. I would not be in favor of banning you and if you want to contribute the "The Lab" forum in the future, I think that would be great. I would not, however, be in favor of putting you in charge of anything. You've clearly demonstrated that you don't have the temperament, demeanor or judgement required to do that.
Curt
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jt512
Nov 8, 2013, 6:09 AM
Post #242 of 430
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robdotcalm wrote: Easier said than done. Internet porn is a sophisticated and highly competitive business.
This guy sounds like he know what he's talking about. Eh, Rob, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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adatesman
Nov 8, 2013, 7:32 AM
Post #243 of 430
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Registered: Jul 13, 2005
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curt wrote: adatesman wrote: Seriously Curt, what is your goal here, and how does showing your penis is longer than mine help Jeff? I wanted to keep this private, but as I said in my PM to you, the only reason I even showed back up here is because a friend who might have some sway in the direction the site takes suggested to Jeff he find a way to bring me back to run The Lab. Sounded nice at the time, and I floated my willingness to restore much of what I pulled due to a personal falling out between DDT and myself. I've since been intentionally pushing buttons to see just how bad it might get while Jeff and I find time to chat, and frankly you, JT and whoever else have made it abundantly clear that I'm not welcome here. Kinda fitting, as my first real entry onto RC was an argument with JT with you helping (use of hardware store quicklinks), followed by you two calling for my head over something Phil told me to do at my leaving. And now you two and whomever else continuing 1-star my every post and be argumentative upon my return. Tell me, Curt, if you were in my position and could put back all of my 3000+ posts, would you? Doesn't matter, as neither me nor my content is wanted. Jeff, kindly banz me as I asked via PM. Still call if you like, but I don't see a way out of this that works for me. Aric, I really don't know how to respond. Do you think your juvenile reference to penises helps you to make your case? You see this as some sort of zero sum game where I need to lose in order for you to win. Obviously, that's not constructive. I would not be in favor of banning you and if you want to contribute the "The Lab" forum in the future, I think that would be great. I would not, however, be in favor of putting you in charge of anything. You've clearly demonstrated that you don't have the temperament, demeanor or judgement required to do that. Curt
I take it then, that you have volunteered?
Seriously, Jeff. Ban me. I clearly don't have what it takes to deal with Curt, JT, and the incessant 1stars. Let them run it. As they've clearly stepped up to the task.
Oh, wait. They didn't, did they?
(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 8, 2013, 7:34 AM)
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iknowfear
Nov 8, 2013, 11:57 AM
Post #244 of 430
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Registered: Sep 8, 2004
Posts: 670
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adatesman wrote: curt wrote: adatesman wrote: Seriously Curt, what is your goal here, and how does showing your penis is longer than mine help Jeff? I wanted to keep this private, but as I said in my PM to you, the only reason I even showed back up here is because a friend who might have some sway in the direction the site takes suggested to Jeff he find a way to bring me back to run The Lab. Sounded nice at the time, and I floated my willingness to restore much of what I pulled due to a personal falling out between DDT and myself. I've since been intentionally pushing buttons to see just how bad it might get while Jeff and I find time to chat, and frankly you, JT and whoever else have made it abundantly clear that I'm not welcome here. Kinda fitting, as my first real entry onto RC was an argument with JT with you helping (use of hardware store quicklinks), followed by you two calling for my head over something Phil told me to do at my leaving. And now you two and whomever else continuing 1-star my every post and be argumentative upon my return. Tell me, Curt, if you were in my position and could put back all of my 3000+ posts, would you? Doesn't matter, as neither me nor my content is wanted. Jeff, kindly banz me as I asked via PM. Still call if you like, but I don't see a way out of this that works for me. Aric, I really don't know how to respond. Do you think your juvenile reference to penises helps you to make your case? You see this as some sort of zero sum game where I need to lose in order for you to win. Obviously, that's not constructive. I would not be in favor of banning you and if you want to contribute the "The Lab" forum in the future, I think that would be great. I would not, however, be in favor of putting you in charge of anything. You've clearly demonstrated that you don't have the temperament, demeanor or judgement required to do that. Curt I take it then, that you have volunteered? Seriously, Jeff. Ban me. I clearly don't have what it takes to deal with Curt, JT, and the incessant 1stars. Let them run it. As they've clearly stepped up to the task. Oh, wait. They didn't, did they?
mate, holding a grudge for that long is like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to die...
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Gmburns2000
Nov 8, 2013, 12:18 PM
Post #245 of 430
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adatesman wrote: Doesn't matter, as neither me nor my content is wanted. Jeff, kindly banz me as I asked via PM. Still call if you like, but I don't see a way out of this that works for me.
I can't believe you're doing the exact same thing again.
Seriously Aric, you do have something to add to the site, and I believe people are interested in hearing what you have to say / show the climbing world. From my memory, your work on Aliens was good.
However, your approach is what kills you man. You absolutely can't let something go (whether anyone else can or not either is completely irrelevant). You continue and continue and continue until the point where you ask someone else to do it for you. The mere proof that you've asked Jeff to ban you means that even you know you can't walk away under your own power. If it bothers you, then stop - don't ask someone else to ban you. Just stop.
Learning how to walk away will allow you to create productive content without the stress of bickering.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 8, 2013, 1:19 PM
Post #246 of 430
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Posts: 5208
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adatesman wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Fourth – bring back the lab! The lab doesn’t have to be perfect or worthy of peer review. Trust us, if it isn’t worthy, we will let them know. The lab doesn’t have to be perfect just interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong, Toast, but isn't The Lab right where it's always been and fully open for anyone to contribute? Only difference is that there's not anyone there anymore to generate interest and facilitate discussion. Which frankly is exactly how it was before I came along. BTW, those sorts of discussions still happen. Mostly on MP from what I've seen, plus as an occasional tangent in a thread on ST. On another note, Majid got canned? SMH. Amazes me how few people got that his online persona is entirely schtick done intentionally to provoke discussion about what is and what is not safe. Emailed with him a bunch, and he's quite the nice guy.
Sorry - a more accurate note would be - find someone to keep the lab active. I do think the day you left was a sad day for the site in that one of the reasons to come here specifically was gone. Regardless of the merits of any one post or even if someone had an issue with your body of work, it was a reason to come here.
Same for I&A. Majid (as you can see) isn't banned, but he isn't posting every single accident that he finds as if looking for a discussion on any one. Again, that killed a reason to come here regularly.
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walkonyourhands
Nov 8, 2013, 1:37 PM
Post #247 of 430
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Posts: 128
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adatesman wrote: On a side note, given the string of 1-stars I'm still seeing after all these years I have to say I don't particularly care if someone thinks I'm too thin skinned or egocentric to play nice on an Internet forum.
Aric, you're repeatedly referring to you being one-starred as people having old issues with you. While this might be partly true, you're also receiving these ratings because of the actual content of your recent posts. I'll out myself here as low-rating some of your posts. This is not because of old issues but rather because of the way you've chosen to re-appear here, suggestions of yours that I can't agree with, and, to quite some extent, your annoying use of ridiculous nicknames ("NewBoss, bluey, the colors) and abbreviations. Fine, the last bit is certainly not fair, I'll admit that.
I kind of liked the growth of the lab back then, but not necessarily the way you handled it. The cam competition was great stuff and you surely put a lot of effort into that. But even in the lab I was happy when JT or curt or other vocal users chimed in, as they added a LOT to these discussions, providing their experience and humor and calling out logical fallacies until people in the wrong changed their mind, gave up or fell into ad-hominem attacks.
edit: I cheesed the tits and again for a typo
(This post was edited by walkonyourhands on Nov 8, 2013, 2:57 PM)
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 8, 2013, 1:42 PM
Post #248 of 430
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adatesman wrote: Anyway, this then leads us to Jeff New Boss. Having figured out what he does for a living, it's pretty clear this thread is *entirely* market research and a way to figure out how best to monetize the site. I don't doubt for a moment he actually climbs (pictures aren't hard to find), but given what he does I have no doubt that he's not looking to keep the lights on as a public service. If he was, he'd have mentioned being a longtime user by now. But he hasn't. Which means that this entire thread is market research to determine how to achieve the best ROI on his purchase. Very shrewd move on his part, and I'm very curious to see how it falls out.
Good on 'em. While many companies (i.e. reddit) can go for years growing uses and not turning profit, I respect asking the community for ways how. Hell - I throw out ideas not related to making this site better (which means more views which means more money).
My suggestions are that while the community here was bigger than MP or ST, the lack of underlying fundamentals (route guide, current gear reviews, detailed I&A) left the forums to flounder. Without a hooked in, and mostly exclusive community, forum sites die. Therefore, my suggestions are to find small ways to incentiveize upkeep of the basics while at the same time working on a good sense of "tone" to the community.
As for ways to make money that aren't related to making the site better. Hell - I've got them too. The gear section has always been a joke, I don't know if any major gear players would like to be so closely linked, but even Amazon's referral links could be a source. Direct blogs, posts, links with manufactures and sponsored climbers would drive views.
Heck make the front page the one site you go to find the news about sponsored climbers (did we mention porn already)?
In reply to: Dunno there's much else I have to say on the matter of RC that hasn't been put in this thread or our PM's.
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blueeyedclimber
Nov 8, 2013, 1:54 PM
Post #249 of 430
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Posts: 4602
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Hi, Jeff and Kristen.
I was one of the users that used to check rc.com multiple times a day and contributed on a daily basis. I am also one of the many that was included in the mass exodus (that was before all the spam, btw). The only reason I am on here is because my wife suggested I check it out. I can't speak for everyone, but here is why I left.
1. Interesting topics and good discussion was replaced by repeat threads, repetitive n00B bashing, and posts that were not well thought out. In short, the threads became boring.
2. Now, I am not against showing a n00b what's up. A well placed jab or a beat down to get something through to someone who has no clue can be effective. But, it became clear that some people were just being jerks for jerks sake. Then, the n00bs got in on it, and there wasn't enough of an experienced user base to keep that hierarchy. So, it became n00bs teaching n00bs.
3. I used to come on here for both entertainment and information. Both of those disappeared. When "STFU, n00b!" is the most intelligent thought you can muster, then I am afraid you are a waste of time for me. I just stopped visiting, because I found it boring. There was no reason to log in.
Josh
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 8, 2013, 2:00 PM
Post #250 of 430
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Hell - I throw out...
In reply to: Hell - I've got them ...
In reply to: Heck make the ...
That sucked.
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