Forums: Rockclimbing.com: Announcements:
Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Announcements

Premier Sponsor:

 


Partner Jeff
Owner

Oct 31, 2013, 4:07 AM
Post #1 of 430 (14215 views)
Shortcut

 
Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey All,
As of last Thursday, my wife and I are the new site owners.

We are still coming up to speed on things--we just got the last half of the login credentials Monday, and so most of our time so far has just been resetting passwords, updating contact info, and exploring how the software that runs this site is architected. A lot more exploring left to do on that front...

The primary thing I wanted to say in this post is that my wife and I *care* about creating a good experience for users and staff, and starting right now, we are here to support you.

I'm not sure exactly what a good experience for users and staff looks like long term--a lot of questions that need answers first--but in the short term, the obvious highest priority thing is implementing better anti-spam measures. Spam sucks. We haven't ever tried to architect anti-spam features before so if you have suggestions on what to do, use this thread: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2637993;#2637993

My wife and I both work full time, so it's not all going to get fixed tomorrow or next week or even this coming year, but we're gonna start chipping away at things.

I have a bunch of questions for you guys about the history of the site and where you'd like to see the site go in the future. I would love your help, but I also totally understand if anyone decides to hit the eject button because there's a new owner.

Right now, the plan is:
1) finish the technical aspects of the site transfer
2) get spam under control
3) understand current site staff structure & remove people who no longer want to be involved
4) Have a discussion with the community about where we are now and where we want to take this site--I've got lots of ideas, and I've no problem being a benevolent dictator when needed, but setting future direction of the site is a conversation, not me showing up in my dilbert costume saying "I'm the new owner, now we do things my way" (at least not too often)
5) start to evaluate the current software platform--what parts can we modify, what parts need to be completely swapped out (have you seen http://www.discourse.org? it's light years better than our current forum software, although integrating it with the other parts of the site would be a very complex project)

Regarding site culture:
There are just a couple of things that are non-negotiable based on who I am as a person and what kind of site I want to be associated with. You can sum most of them up as be friendly, treat people, including women, with respect, don't be a jerk, and treat others how you'd want to be treated. The rockclimbing community tends to be a little rough around the edges, thrill-seeking, rules-pushing, heart-pounding awesomeness. No problems there--I was the kid growing up who drove the town roundabout backwards every so often just to feel like a rebel. But I'm not going to tolerate sexually crude remarks or slamming n00bs. People who want to do those things can go find another site. I haven't seen problems with these things so far, but just wanted to set the ground rules.

As far as who are we--my wife and I love the outdoors, particularly the mountains.

I first got exposed to rock climbing when I took the Mountaineers Basic Climbing Course in highschool. My current favorite climb is probably the summit pyramid on Mount Challenger, which is only rated at 5.7 if I remember right, but climbing 5.7 in plastic mountaineering boots is a whole different level of difficulty than doing it in rock shoes. Plus it was a difficult two-day approach through some of the most heavily glaciated terrain in the lower 48, so my friends and I definitely felt legit on that one.

If you have questions for me/us, post them in this thread.

Cheers,

Jeff

Addendum #1:
A number of folks asked about our plans for the site.
My answer Part 1:http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2638121;#2638121
Part 2: http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2638388#2638388

Addendum #2:
A number of people asked if we purchased the site as a hobby or as a for-profit business.
My answer: http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2638629#2638629


(This post was edited by Jeff on Mar 8, 2014, 10:40 PM)


granite_grrl


Oct 31, 2013, 5:14 AM
Post #2 of 430 (14163 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well this is an interesting turn of events.


mojomonkey


Oct 31, 2013, 5:48 AM
Post #3 of 430 (14142 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 841

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Jeff wrote:
Hey All,
My name is Jeff and as of last Thursday, my wife Kristen and I are the new site owners.

We are still coming up to speed on things--we just got the last half of the login credentials Monday, and so most of our time so far has just been resetting passwords, updating contact info, and exploring how the software that runs this site is architected. A lot more exploring left to do on that front...

The primary thing I wanted to say in this post is that my wife and I *care* about creating a good experience for users and staff, and starting right now, we are here to support you.

I'm not sure exactly what a good experience for users and staff looks like long term--a lot of questions that need answers first--but in the short term, the obvious highest priority thing is implementing better anti-spam measures. Spam sucks. We haven't ever tried to architect anti-spam features before so if you have suggestions on what to do, use this thread: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=2637993;#2637993

My wife and I both work full time, so it's not all going to get fixed tomorrow or next week or even this coming year, but we're gonna start chipping away at things.

I have a bunch of questions for you guys about the history of the site and where you'd like to see the site go in the future. I would love your help, but I also totally understand if anyone decides to hit the eject button because there's a new owner.

Right now, the plan is:
1) finish the technical aspects of the site transfer
2) get spam under control
3) understand current site staff structure & remove people who no longer want to be involved
4) Have a discussion with the community about where we are now and where we want to take this site--I've got lots of ideas, and I've no problem being a benevolent dictator when needed, but setting future direction of the site is a conversation, not me showing up in my dilbert costume saying "I'm the new owner, now we do things my way" (at least not too often)
5) start to evaluate the current software platform--what parts can we modify, what parts need to be completely swapped out (have you seen http://www.discourse.org? it's light years better than our current forum software, although integrating it with the other parts of the site would be a very complex project)

Regarding site culture:
There are just a couple of things that are non-negotiable based on who I am as a person and what kind of site I want to be associated with. You can sum most of them up as be friendly, treat people, including women, with respect, don't be a jerk, and treat others how you'd want to be treated. The rockclimbing community tends to be a little rough around the edges, thrill-seeking, rules-pushing, heart-pounding awesomeness. No problems there--I was the kid growing up who drove the town roundabout backwards every so often just to feel like a rebel. But I'm not going to tolerate sexually crude remarks or slamming n00bs. People who want to do those things can go find another site. I haven't seen problems with these things so far, but just wanted to set the ground rules.

As far as who are we--my wife and I love the outdoors, particularly the mountains--I grew up in the North Cascades north of Seattle, and my wife grew up in the Rockies of Colorado and although we currently live in Silicon Valley, our hearts pine for real mountains with rock and snow. We're also both pretty nerdy and we like to push ourselves physically and mentally. Kristen's done a half Ironman and I've hiked 50 miles in 24 hours.

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=6667;[/image]

I first got exposed to rock climbing when I took the Mountaineers Basic Climbing Course in highschool. My current favorite climb is probably the summit pyramid on Mount Challenger, which is only rated at 5.6 if I remember right, but climbing 5.6 in plastic mountaineering boots is a whole different level of difficulty than doing it in rock shoes. Plus it was a difficult two-day approach through some of the most heavily glaciated terrain in the lower 48, so my friends and I definitely felt legit on that one.

If you have questions for me/us, post them in this thread.

Cheers,

Jeff and Kristen

I hope you can turn this place around! We seem to be using gossamer threads to manage the forum - are we on the latest version? Maybe checking out their forums for anti-spam methods used.

As for suggestions, hopefully you check out the suggestion forum on this site. There are lots of ideas in there that have been neglected while ownership was uncertain.


(This post was edited by mojomonkey on Oct 31, 2013, 5:49 AM)


ncrockclimber


Oct 31, 2013, 1:09 PM
Post #5 of 430 (14000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hi Jeff.

I sincerely hope that you are able to turn this site around, but I am not optimistic about your chances. This site has gone from being a thriving community resource to a wasteland. The majority of the moderators haven't logged on in months and the quality of the discourse in the forum is extremely low. There are other climbing sites that are working great at this time and getting users to come back to RC.com is going to be a challenge. I will look forward to seeing what you can do for this site and wish you much success.

Edit to add -
It has been over 9 hours since the OP and you have had 4 responses. That speaks volumes about the state of this site...


(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on Oct 31, 2013, 1:48 PM)


marc801


Oct 31, 2013, 2:08 PM
Post #6 of 430 (13965 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2731

Re: [ncrockclimber] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

ncrockclimber wrote:
Hi Jeff.

I sincerely hope that you are able to turn this site around, but I am not optimistic about your chances. This site has gone from being a thriving community resource to a wasteland. The majority of the moderators haven't logged on in months and the quality of the discourse in the forum is extremely low. There are other climbing sites that are working great at this time and getting users to come back to RC.com is going to be a challenge. I will look forward to seeing what you can do for this site and wish you much success.

Edit to add -
It has been over 9 hours since the OP and you have had 4 responses. That speaks volumes about the state of this site...
IMHO the key reason a lot of people fled - or at least aren't logging on - was the massive flood of spam posts in a relatively short time span. If that can be prevented from happening again, we'll likely see a return of folks, provided they know about it. Some kind of marketing push will probably be needed.


meanandugly


Oct 31, 2013, 4:46 PM
Post #7 of 430 (13920 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 312

Re: [marc801] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The spam almost ended it for me.


gblauer
Moderator

Oct 31, 2013, 6:07 PM
Post #8 of 430 (13883 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2002
Posts: 2802

Re: [meanandugly] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Delighted to have the new ownership.

There are a bunch of moderators (including me) who would love to give you some input.

Congrats on your purchase.


shockabuku


Oct 31, 2013, 7:28 PM
Post #10 of 430 (13853 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4856

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Did you pay (in cash) for it? Hopefully you were paying attention and got a good deal.


Partner j_ung


Nov 1, 2013, 7:25 AM
Post #11 of 430 (13766 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18687

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hi Jeff,

Once upon a time, I ran the day-to-day RC.com operations. I don't have a question, but I do have a suggestion. Don't try to be everything to everybody. Initiate your rules to bring about your goals and the enforce them mercilessly. Don't waste time explaining your decisions to people. Ban anybody who gets in your way. In short, don't be the nice guy. Be the guy for whom his vision of what the site can be is far more important than any one person (or small group of people).

Counter intuitive? Yes. Stands a chance of being effective? Yes. The alternative is to slip into the same trap that everybody who came before you fell for, including me.

Best of luck!
Jay


boymeetsrock


Nov 1, 2013, 10:33 AM
Post #12 of 430 (13705 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Welcome Jeff and Kristen! Wish you the best for this site. I really don't come here much any more, but I'd love to come back.

What ruined the site for me was:
1) management's complete lack of interest in the site
2) the users who realized there was no one running the show and took advantage.
3) ad hominem attacks
4) ultimate loss of content as most users left

A few years ago, as it became all to evident that management was absent, the tone of the site became sophomoric and aggressive. It really wasn't fun to be a part of anymore.

J_ung makes some great points. He was well on his way to making this site a better place when he had the rug pulled out from under him.

With a little TLC, I'd wager this site has a good chance of growing again. You have a great domain name! Just need to keep the "jerkz" et al in check.


curt


Nov 1, 2013, 11:23 AM
Post #13 of 430 (13678 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [j_ung] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

j_ung wrote:
Hi Jeff,

Once upon a time, I ran the day-to-day RC.com operations. I don't have a question, but I do have a suggestion. Don't try to be everything to everybody. Initiate your rules to bring about your goals and the enforce them mercilessly. Don't waste time explaining your decisions to people. Ban anybody who gets in your way. In short, don't be the nice guy. Be the guy for whom his vision of what the site can be is far more important than any one person (or small group of people).

Counter intuitive? Yes. Stands a chance of being effective? Yes. The alternative is to slip into the same trap that everybody who came before you fell for, including me.

Best of luck!
Jay

And that advice would result in creating another "Mountain Project" type site, complete with its heavy-handed moderation and censorship. If that's Jeff's vision, I suppose it's fine to go that route, but this website has always struck an interesting (and I think proper) balance between anything goes and excessive moderation. I think there is some risk in radically altering that balance, in terms of losing long time users who make meaningful contributions.

Curt


Gmburns2000


Nov 1, 2013, 12:34 PM
Post #14 of 430 (13627 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15111

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jeff,

I think a lot of people would like the site to return to something respectable. I still hang around on occasion, but less so due to the complete lack of care the past regime had for this site (and the fact that so many mods either stopped logging in or just didn't do anything).

I think you can make great strides on this site by updating a lot of the databases and "how things are organized" so to speak. You said you live in hell Silicon Valley. What's your software background and can you bring more physical changes to the site?

Honestly, a few years ago, this place was pretty well run by the inmates. It wasn't perfect, but no one actually died. Fixing some of the technical stuff and allowing for a return to reasonably-led asylum content could breathe the life back into it. There are a lot of people who like the site (me included) enough to see it through.

Best...
Greg


arrettinator


Nov 1, 2013, 2:22 PM
Post #15 of 430 (13569 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 8520

Re: You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I can't believe nobody else has written this, so I will.

STFU n00b.

Tongue

Kidding, of course. Angelic

Long time user. First time poster. (outside of the campground for a while)

I for one welcome our new rc.com overlords.


(This post was edited by arrettinator on Nov 1, 2013, 2:23 PM)


shockabuku


Nov 1, 2013, 3:08 PM
Post #16 of 430 (13538 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4856

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

curt wrote:
j_ung wrote:
Hi Jeff,

Once upon a time, I ran the day-to-day RC.com operations. I don't have a question, but I do have a suggestion. Don't try to be everything to everybody. Initiate your rules to bring about your goals and the enforce them mercilessly. Don't waste time explaining your decisions to people. Ban anybody who gets in your way. In short, don't be the nice guy. Be the guy for whom his vision of what the site can be is far more important than any one person (or small group of people).

Counter intuitive? Yes. Stands a chance of being effective? Yes. The alternative is to slip into the same trap that everybody who came before you fell for, including me.

Best of luck!
Jay

And that advice would result in creating another "Mountain Project" type site, complete with its heavy-handed moderation and censorship. If that's Jeff's vision, I suppose it's fine to go that route, but this website has always struck an interesting (and I think proper) balance between anything goes and excessive moderation. I think there is some risk in radically altering that balance, in terms of losing long time users who make meaningful contributions.

Curt


Gotta second Curt - I go to Mountain Project to buy used gear and look at their route data base but otherwise it's kind of boring. I come here because it's entertaining and mostly about climbing (at least tangentially).


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 1, 2013, 3:13 PM
Post #17 of 430 (13534 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [arrettinator] You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Good luck with the project!

Hopefully you have some concepts in mind for bringing up the levels of interrelatedness with the various social platforms. Seems to me that rc could have brought back to life some interaction had they leveraged those connections(367 Twitter Followers, 1872 on FB, last posted to on, humorously enough, April 1st. No Pinterest or YouTube/Vimeo profiles...).

Another thing I see as having the potential for improving people's experiences would be the ability to develop feeds through the use of network groups.

What RC currently is, is hanging on by a string, as was said earlier. Not a go-to place anymore. Hell, nobody even posted about the El Cap Pirate's accident, and I am pretty sure that nobody reading this post hasn't heard about it. Made page 1 of Reddit, there are Response videos to Ammon's video of the carnage being created on YouTube and it went unspoken about here.


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Nov 1, 2013, 3:15 PM)


Partner macherry


Nov 1, 2013, 3:57 PM
Post #18 of 430 (13505 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [happiegrrrl] You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
Good luck with the project!

Hopefully you have some concepts in mind for bringing up the levels of interrelatedness with the various social platforms. Seems to me that rc could have brought back to life some interaction had they leveraged those connections(367 Twitter Followers, 1872 on FB, last posted to on, humorously enough, April 1st. No Pinterest or YouTube/Vimeo profiles...).

Another thing I see as having the potential for improving people's experiences would be the ability to develop feeds through the use of network groups.

What RC currently is, is hanging on by a string, as was said earlier. Not a go-to place anymore. Hell, nobody even posted about the El Cap Pirate's accident, and I am pretty sure that nobody reading this post hasn't heard about it. Made page 1 of Reddit, there are Response videos to Ammon's video of the carnage being created on YouTube and it went unspoken about here.

i think a lot of people heard about the accident but feel no need to discuss it on rc.com. it's not the community it used to be


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 1, 2013, 4:05 PM
Post #19 of 430 (13500 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [macherry] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

yes - that was my point.


lofstromc


Nov 1, 2013, 4:19 PM
Post #21 of 430 (13486 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 528

Re: [happiegrrrl] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

My biggest reason for not checking this site is/was the amount of spam. As for the conversations, I pick and choose what I care about.
I hope you can change the direction of this site, I've always enjoyed it.


Partner macherry


Nov 1, 2013, 6:01 PM
Post #22 of 430 (13458 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [happiegrrrl] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
yes - that was my point.


i misread your post


my mistakeBlush


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 1, 2013, 7:05 PM
Post #23 of 430 (13436 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [macherry] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

not a problem, macherry.


moose_droppings


Nov 1, 2013, 7:35 PM
Post #24 of 430 (13421 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3348

Re: [meanandugly] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

meanandugly wrote:
The spam almost ended it for me.

+1

Some days that's all there is.
Hope you get a handle on it.


dagibbs


Nov 1, 2013, 9:33 PM
Post #25 of 430 (13391 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 880

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Of the climbing discussion sites I'm on (ontarioclimbing.com, rockclimbing.com, ukclimbing.com, mountainproject.com, supertopo.com), this one has the best UI for the forums. I really appreciate the tracking of read/unread, and the "mark all read" ability, along with going to the most-recent un-read message in any thread I go to. That makes this forum, despite the recent spam and lack of content, still my favourite. Please do NOT lose this usefulness and readability in the forums.

Beyond that, keep the spam out. And make it clear that someone cares. Hopefully that will be enough to encourage people to trickle back.


dr_feelgood


Nov 1, 2013, 11:24 PM
Post #26 of 430 (3283 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25720

Re: [dagibbs] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Good luck.
Find mods that will cut down on sexist/racist crap, but leave the honest n00b bashing. Gotta learn somehow. I did.
Make 'campground' controversial again. Consolidate it and the soapbox, and use it as a dumpster for non-spam shit. Cagefighting if you get my meaning.
Better User Interface.
Don't try to be a mountainproject, where everyone is friendly and spraying about the routes they've photographed. Don't try to be a supertopo; the last bastion of the california hardman. Bring rockclimbing.com back to its shitty awesomeness.

And keep folks from linking their blogs/personal websites. If they want to post something, post it!

Doc


singletrackmike


Nov 2, 2013, 4:37 AM
Post #27 of 430 (3261 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 30, 2009
Posts: 41

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Hi Jeff & Kristen! Thank you for that post and stating your intentions of what you want to accomplish. I hope you're able to do what you want to do and have a great time doing it!


edge


Nov 2, 2013, 7:53 AM
Post #28 of 430 (3239 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9091

Re: [dr_feelgood] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:

And keep folks from linking their blogs/personal websites. If they want to post something, post it!

Doc

+1

Agreed, these are spam, pure & simple. As are the front page pics that are voted in by the submitter and two of their friends as soon as they are submitted; working the system for free advertising.


iknowfear


Nov 2, 2013, 8:16 AM
Post #29 of 430 (3229 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 8, 2004
Posts: 637

Re: [edge] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

edge wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:

And keep folks from linking their blogs/personal websites. If they want to post something, post it!

Doc

+1

Agreed, these are spam, pure & simple. As are the front page pics that are voted in by the submitter and two of their friends as soon as they are submitted; working the system for free advertising.

+1 you should not be allowed to rate your own pictures...


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 2, 2013, 8:24 AM
Post #30 of 430 (3227 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [edge] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Why not develop a blog ON this site and offer the opportunity for bloggers to post guest pieces?

Same as any major blog that uses guests, the writers create pieces which would appeal to the site's audience(informational posts as opposed to personal trip reports), the pieces are submitted and accepted or not, and when published they include a byline for the author with a link to their personal blog.

Win/win for both RC and for the writers.


Partner macherry


Nov 2, 2013, 10:08 AM
Post #31 of 430 (3203 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [dr_feelgood] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
Good luck.
Find mods that will cut down on sexist/racist crap, but leave the honest n00b bashing. Gotta learn somehow. I did.
Make 'campground' controversial again. Consolidate it and the soapbox, and use it as a dumpster for non-spam shit. Cagefighting if you get my meaning.
Better User Interface.
Don't try to be a mountainproject, where everyone is friendly and spraying about the routes they've photographed. Don't try to be a supertopo; the last bastion of the california hardman. Bring rockclimbing.com back to its shitty awesomeness.

And keep folks from linking their blogs/personal websites. If they want to post something, post it!

Doc


yes


Partner Jeff
Owner

Nov 2, 2013, 1:03 PM
Post #32 of 430 (3183 views)
Shortcut

 
Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey All--I'm definitely reading all this feedback, so keep it coming.

A community that tries to appeal to everyone appeals to no one, so there *will* come a time when I have to make some decisions about this site's direction/culture in the future.

When that happens, I'm sure some of you will choose to leave and others of you will choose to become more involved. That's just the way it goes.

Those aren't decisions I want to make hastily, so I'm first waiting until I've had a chance to connect with the staff 1:1 and as many active users as I can to understand a bit more about the history and current state of RC.

All I ask is you stick around a few weeks until I'm ready to make those decisions.

And if you've got the time to help educate me about the site, drop me a PM and we'll set up a time to chat.


granite_grrl


Nov 2, 2013, 5:07 PM
Post #33 of 430 (3142 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

FWIW I think many of the people who post on here like that things are a little more "raw". If you're an idiot, you get called on it. If you're being sexist, you get called on it. Yeah, people can be dicks on here, but if you're an asshole, you get called on it.

I'm very glad that there are new owners for this site, extremely happy that the new owners are climbers. But as stated, I don't want this place to turn into a mountain project or a supertopo.


USnavy


Nov 3, 2013, 12:16 AM
Post #34 of 430 (3109 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2660

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Keep things civilized, promote education and learning, and you MIGHT see a small trickle of people rolling back in. The majority of those left pre-spam era did so because they got tired of everything being an axe murdering fest or dick measuring contest. I too have grown tired of all the constant bashing, which is why I dont visit this site very often anymore.

Also, it would be nice for a complete website overhaul. This site has been using the same layout and forum software for the last 10 years. If you look at any major website, they change the design every year if not sooner. Facebook changes their site once every few months. The reason why the spam bots are attacking the site so easily is because the forum software is from the Windows 98 era. Maybe consider scrapping the forum software and going with something completely new?


(This post was edited by USnavy on Nov 3, 2013, 12:39 AM)


marc801


Nov 3, 2013, 7:20 AM
Post #35 of 430 (3061 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2731

Re: [USnavy] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
The majority of those left pre-spam era did so because they got tired of everything being an axe murdering fest or dick measuring contest. I too have grown tired of all the constant bashing, which is why I dont visit this site very often anymore.

Dude, you post almost every other day or two.
USnavy History wrote:
Registered: Nov 5, 2007, 6:40 PM
Last Logon: Nov 2, 2013, 11:57 PM
Posts: 2622 (1.2 per day)

And take a look at this: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...y;sb=post_time;mh=25
That;s what you call not very often?

There seems to be this "common knowledge" that there was a massive exodus from the site before the spam flood. Does anyone have any numbers to back up this assertion? Yes, there were a few high profile departures, but an awful lot of the same names remain and still post. And assigning reasons for mass departures is even more suspect.

IOW, I just don't buy that answer.
I also agree that both turning this site into the over-moderated spray-a-thon of MP or the school-yard free-for-all of supertopo would remove a lot of the reasons why this site is a viable alternative.


(This post was edited by marc801 on Nov 3, 2013, 7:22 AM)


ncrockclimber


Nov 3, 2013, 7:47 AM
Post #36 of 430 (3052 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (11 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
FWIW I think many of the people who post on here like that things are a little more "raw"...


IMHO there is a SMALL minority of users that revel in being rude and sometimes abusive. For every user that likes it "raw" and has 1000s of intentionally inflammatory posts, there are 100s of users that would prefer to talk about rock climbing in the a more civil manner, similar to what we do when we meet face to face. By catering to the vocal minority, I think that you drive away the larger and more civil user group. I don't want to see a whitewashed and heavily moderated site, but don't particularly enjoy participating in a site where threads commonly devolve into insult contests. Although I do not have data to support this, I believe that the mass exodus of users happened way before the spamming. I quit visiting due to the site becoming progressively more toxic. I am sure others had different reasons.


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 3, 2013, 8:04 AM
Post #37 of 430 (3046 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [ncrockclimber] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
IMHO there is a SMALL minority of users that revel in being rude and sometimes abusive.

Yes, but that small minority seemed to have had/has the same strategy as the Tea Party - boisterous, ignorant, unrelenting, and giving a bad name to anyone tangentially related to them!


On an aside, due to one of those flukes of the universe, I have gleaned a tidbit that tells me it looks like rc.com may be in for a makeover that is going to astound.


a4a52041


Nov 3, 2013, 8:38 AM
Post #38 of 430 (3031 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 21

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks for taking this on.

The suggestions that I have are:
- we need to have a mapping feature like "Mountain Project"....its very useful. Especially when planning road trips.
- most other sites allow users to upload pics without being filtered by the administrators or owners. This would save time on your end. Pics that aren't tasteful would be reported by the online community.


jt512


Nov 3, 2013, 2:00 PM
Post #39 of 430 (2976 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [marc801] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (9 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
There seems to be this "common knowledge" that there was a massive exodus from the site before the spam flood. Does anyone have any numbers to back up this assertion?

I don't know where to get the stats from, but others who do have posted them before. IIRC, site traffic took an order-of-magnitude drop just after the previous owners bought the site for the first time (they bought it, sold it to Namemedia, and then bought it back—or something like that). Why the plunge? My impression is that the overarching cause was that the then-new owners killed the sense of community that the site had had. I sense that the following factors contributed to this loss of community. These are not in any particular order, nor are they mutually orthogonal:
  1. The new owners were perceived as outsiders, specifically, non-climbers who were only interested in the site to make money from it.

  2. The owners gave the impression that they had little interest in input from users about the site: its look and feel, its features, its direction, etc.

  3. The owners drastically changed the look of the site, from one that felt warm and welcoming to one that felt cold and off-putting.

  4. Under the original owners, moderation and forum rules seemed to bubble up from the user base; under the new owners, they seemed to be dicta handed down from the new bosses.

  5. The new owners drastically commercialized the website, first drastically increasing the amount of advertising (including a good deal of non-climbing-related ads), and then eventually turning the site into essentially an on-line store, where, like in network television, substantive content is just an inconvenient necessity to sell product.

I'm sure that this list is incomplete, but maybe it will serve as a springboard for additional feedback from users who were around when the original disaster struck.

Note to the new owners: the two successful (existentially, if not financially) global climbing sites, supertopo.com and mountainproject.com, both have the grassroots, community feeling that site once, too, had.


USnavy


Nov 3, 2013, 4:01 PM
Post #40 of 430 (2947 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2660

Re: [marc801] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The majority of those left pre-spam era did so because they got tired of everything being an axe murdering fest or dick measuring contest. I too have grown tired of all the constant bashing, which is why I dont visit this site very often anymore.

Dude, you post almost every other day or two.
USnavy History wrote:
Registered: Nov 5, 2007, 6:40 PM
Last Logon: Nov 2, 2013, 11:57 PM
Posts: 2622 (1.2 per day)

And take a look at this: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...y;sb=post_time;mh=25
That;s what you call not very often?

There seems to be this "common knowledge" that there was a massive exodus from the site before the spam flood. Does anyone have any numbers to back up this assertion? Yes, there were a few high profile departures, but an awful lot of the same names remain and still post. And assigning reasons for mass departures is even more suspect.

IOW, I just don't buy that answer.
I also agree that both turning this site into the over-moderated spray-a-thon of MP or the school-yard free-for-all of supertopo would remove a lot of the reasons why this site is a viable alternative.
Comparatively as often.* I used to post solely on this site and now it is the last site I visit when I am bored. I spend far more time elsewhere.

As far as the departures go, I used to click on the general category and the entire page would be flagged as unread posts. Now I click on it and the first two are flagged as unread. I am not sure what other proof you need. The timestamps on the posts still exist so you can go back and look.

Last, MP.com is not a mod-heavy communist society. Of the 750 posts I have on there, one was edited by a mod. They used to throw the gavel around, but they dont throw it around nearly as much anymore.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Nov 3, 2013, 4:03 PM)


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 3, 2013, 4:23 PM
Post #41 of 430 (2931 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [jt512] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

Responding to JT512's post:

Interesting -I wouldn't have said that was the prime reasons the site traffic dropped.

In the early days, there was not a lot of competition for the traffic. YouTube didn't exist, and neither did Facebook. Discussion forums, in and of themselves, were enough to interest people.

Climbers who had put up major FA's and pushed the grades posted here as part of the community.

RC has always had a bit of a gumby flair, at least as far back as I can recall. But because there were enough people who walked the walk and didn't feel the need to be shitty, combined with the advent of socializing via the net and limited other options, the place had a healthy number and variety of users.

When other sites came available, people naturally began moving to those, but RC still had a decent share.

Remember when the servers were so sluggish and bogged down that it was nearly futile to navigate the site, and often it was down completely? To me, that was the first obvious move away in numbers, and that was before DDT and Sangiro bought the site.

When DDT came on, the repair on servers was appreciated, but momentum had been lost.

At first the new owners were excited about the project and users were happy with the improvements, Yes - the blandness of the look was an issue, but I don't really think it was anything like a deal-breaker for most.

Regarding advertising - I wouldn't know, since I have blocked ads for years. But I don't think they were seriously courting specific climbing-related companies - rather, using Google ads, which would have served up what this audience cued them towards.

I don't recall any big enough objection to advertising or a push towards monetizing this site that would have been a genuine influence on the departure.

It seemed that DDT pretty early realized that he didn't have the resources/desire to guide the website's evolution and also(I believe) that the return on investment wasn't what he had anticipated. He tended to be hands-off, and perhaps when some of the buffoonery that was entertaining a subset of the community actually drove numbers, he accepted it simply because it was driving traffic in the short run.

When NameMedia bought the site, it WAS seen as a negative by users, because the stable of websites NameMedia owned was pretty embarrassing and obviously commercially oriented.

JUNG was hired to do some managing and he was GREAT. And then they realized that the site was bleeding money(I assume) and didn't want to have the expense. They terminated a widely liked and respected user of this site and that was really a decision that had an impact of the way users viewed the owners of the site.

Then, there seemed to be nobody minding the door, and things began to devolve. There came a time when it became sport to be as rude as possible to some people, and the monkey-piling on others was disgusting, The same people also found it entertaining to hack into parts of the site and wreak general havok. Some of it was funny, but many people found it tiring. Any requests, made even in a general way, to stop being suck dicks(edit: oh, that was a typo! Should have been "such" dicks) resulted in those people being attacked. A few of the mods were among the assholes. Those few enabled the rank behavior and provided the assholes with information they had insider access to.

The diaspora continued, and in the process it acted as a filter, homogenizing the neighborhood. People who weren't interested in a combatitive sort of interaction simply stopped posting. Some remained on the site, but were silent.

The interesting thing is that there ARE still a number of users who have been on the site for years, and that the climbers on other sites WILL talk about it if changes here become evident. Also, according to Alexa, nearly a quarter of unique visitors to the site come here from Google. So, as long as value can be brought back into the site, the domain is valuable, at least as far as climbing-related properties go.


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Nov 3, 2013, 4:29 PM)


evosteve


Nov 3, 2013, 7:07 PM
Post #42 of 430 (2888 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 5, 2010
Posts: 18

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Glad to see someone new. I don't post a lot , but like to cruise around and learn stuff from others. Maybe things will change for good. Congrats!


curt


Nov 3, 2013, 8:42 PM
Post #43 of 430 (2860 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [USnavy] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
Last, MP.com is not a mod-heavy communist society.

Compared to what? It certainly isn't the open forum that supertopo.com is, or even what this site historically has been.

USnavy wrote:
Of the 750 posts I have on there, one was edited by a mod. They used to throw the gavel around, but they dont throw it around nearly as much anymore.

That's likely because they have already suppressed those they view as troublemakers. Don't get me wrong, MP.com certainly fills a need and currently dominates its niche. For information about specific climbing routes (i.e. online guidebook information) MP.com is great. The interactive forum there, however, is severely lacking compared to RC.com.

To me (and this is obviously just my opinion) it makes little sense for RC.com to try and be another MP.com or even another Supertopo.com. Why simply duplicate what already exists on another website? That really doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Curt


curt


Nov 3, 2013, 9:43 PM
Post #44 of 430 (2841 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jeff wrote:
A community that tries to appeal to everyone appeals to no one, so there *will* come a time when I have to make some decisions about this site's direction/culture in the future.

When that happens, I'm sure some of you will choose to leave and others of you will choose to become more involved. That's just the way it goes...

That's fair enough. Just please don't fuck it up.

Curt


JAB


Nov 4, 2013, 1:31 AM
Post #45 of 430 (2809 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 373

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

My 2 cents: focus on the noobs.

RC has the most obvious domain name, so a lot of new climbers will find RC first. It also has a nice Beginners forum, where you can ask stupid questions without getting bashed.

Except that is of course a big lie today. Even good questions in the beginners forum get bashed to hell.

So cater for the noobs. This is also easy, as you don't really need a lot of unique content. With more traffic, the online mentors will come back, and at some point we might even get some kind of community back.

Another point to remeber is that climbing is getting more and more popular, and most (almost all I guess) start out by climbing on plastic and maybe taking a course or two. At the moment these thousands of people have nowhere to hang out on the web.


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 5:53 AM
Post #46 of 430 (2771 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Haven't been here in years, and thanks to NCRock for tipping me off about this as it just so happens that a friend I hadn't heard from in years dropped me a PM here a couple days ago. Had I not logged in I'd have never seen it.

Anyway, good luck to you, Jeff. You're going to need it, as there's quite a bit of ugly to fix.

My suggestion is to pretty much ignore what most everyone says here, develop *your own* vision for what *you* want RC to be, and then make that happen. This is *exactly* what j_ung was doing during his tenure, and why the site was so successful then. IIRC his focus was to make RC a noob-friendly *resource* rather than a chatroom cesspool, which is actually something MP, ST, UKC, etc don't do so well. Some folks here like the no-holds-barred-chatroom thing, which is fine. Lots of other places to go for that sort of thing; no reason it should be here. Hell, that's basically what ST is, and I find it very amusing that those folks advocating for it here aren't over there. Their brand of bashing and ugliness simply isn't tolerated there, and they get shut down fast. By the other users, I might add; Mod action is basically non-existant over there.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Not that it matters, because I'm one of those who won't be coming back. I soured on the place after spending several hours a day for several years on here modding and developing The Lab, only to get thrown under the bus by DDT. Good luck to you.


Oh BTW, does this mean Dingus might finally get his wish and have Management delete all his posts? I hope so, but case I can say that deleting every one of several thousand posts by hand is a major pain in the ass.


EDIT- Oh, and track down user sp00ki and tell him to give me my Haycock bouldering guide back. It's been 5 years now.


Edit x2 to clarify the point re: ST and the folks wanting a chat room here not participating in the one there. IMO they just like bashing noobs, and RC provides ample opportunity for it. ST, not so much, as aside from the obligatory "yer gonna die" post, noob questions are generally answered quick or ignored, and either way fall off the front page quickly. Not the perfect system, but avoids the endless stream of noob bashing like there is/was here.


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 4, 2013, 9:42 AM)


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 9:52 AM
Post #47 of 430 (2706 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ah, one other thing.... The star rating system. That's gotta go. Time was a random percentage of users each day could rate a couple posts with a trophy or poo, and iirc you could see who did it. The stars thing was a plan of j_ung's that was started but never fully implemented due to him being shown the door. Plan was to have it be a way to bias search results on a topic, to make searches more fruitful. Instead it never got fully fleshed out and became subject to abuse (which I admit I was party to.)

Gah.... Here I was thinking I had finally gotten the RC monkey off my back, only to be sucked in again thinking how good a resource it could be. Damn you Jeff!

On a side note, Jeff, I might still have flat file copies of most of the threads in The Lab I was involved with, and if DDT is indeed out of the picture might be willing to pass them along to rebuild what I had been doing there.


Partner macherry


Nov 4, 2013, 10:23 AM
Post #48 of 430 (2679 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
Ah, one other thing.... The star rating system. That's gotta go. Time was a random percentage of users each day could rate a couple posts with a trophy or poo, and iirc you could see who did it. The stars thing was a plan of j_ung's that was started but never fully implemented due to him being shown the door. Plan was to have it be a way to bias search results on a topic, to make searches more fruitful. Instead it never got fully fleshed out and became subject to abuse (which I admit I was party to.)

Gah.... Here I was thinking I had finally gotten the RC monkey off my back, only to be sucked in again thinking how good a resource it could be. Damn you Jeff!

On a side note, Jeff, I might still have flat file copies of most of the threads in The Lab I was involved with, and if DDT is indeed out of the picture might be willing to pass them along to rebuild what I had been doing there.


they always come back (TM)


JimTitt


Nov 4, 2013, 10:27 AM
Post #49 of 430 (2678 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 975

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

"You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!"


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 11:20 AM
Post #50 of 430 (2652 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
they always come back (TM)

Funniest part is that is actually quoting Lena_chita from my FB feed. Tongue

But, yes. I'm a recovering RC addict. Hopes are up given the ownership change, but I'm withholding judgement until I see what direction Jeff takes.

Btw- Who's 1-starring my posts? Seriously, it's been *years*, and USNavy and I have long since buried the hatchet and might even consider each other *friends*. So it's not him. Is there someone else needing a hug?


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 4, 2013, 11:27 AM)


jt512


Nov 4, 2013, 11:54 AM
Post #51 of 430 (2324 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
Remember when the servers were so sluggish and bogged down that it was nearly futile to navigate the site, and often it was down completely? To me, that was the first obvious move away in numbers, and that was before DDT and Sangiro bought the site.

When DDT came on, the repair on servers was appreciated, but momentum had been lost.

That's a good point. I had forgotten that the site had become essentially unusable due to server problems, which DDT promptly fixed. My recollection is that a large number of regular users were disgruntled with the direction the site took when DDT took it over, and left the site soon after. But I could be mistaken. Maybe somebody will dig up the site traffic history statistics that have been posted.


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 4, 2013, 11:57 AM
Post #52 of 430 (2322 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [jt512] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
Maybe somebody will dig up the site traffic history statistics that have been posted.

well, maybe somebody will, but I think in the meanwhile we can have a little fun "looking" at the Ghost of RC Past through the WayBack Machine:
http://web.archive.org/...p://rockclimbing.com


Partner macherry


Nov 4, 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #53 of 430 (2306 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
macherry wrote:
they always come back (TM)

Funniest part is that is actually quoting Lena_chita from my FB feed. Tongue

But, yes. I'm a recovering RC addict. Hopes are up given the ownership change, but I'm withholding judgement until I see what direction Jeff takes.




Btw- Who's 1-starring my posts? Seriously, it's been *years*, and USNavy and I have long since buried the hatchet and might even consider each other *friends*. So it's not him. Is there someone else needing a hug?


lena stole that from me. trademarked it years ago!!Wink


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 12:44 PM
Post #54 of 430 (2294 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
lena stole that from me. trademarked it years ago!!Wink


Laugh



Ah, good times!


Seriously though, this is not helping my RC addiction. I'd been clean since popping in to say congrats to Lena on getting mod-ship.

Ugh... If Magnus were to chime in I'd surely fall off the wagon.


Partner angry


Nov 4, 2013, 12:48 PM
Post #55 of 430 (2291 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (9 ratings)  
Can't Post

I honestly don't see a way to save this site. It is a tarnished brand and a joke. What's more, it does not have a single reason to visit other than the forums.

Forums are essentially bathroom stall walls. People will write bullshit just to see their own bullshit. I'm as guilty as anyone. Not everyone wants to see that. Look at MP.com, I know very few people who post there yet nearly everyone I've met uses the site. What reason does anyone have to use this site if not to post?

Finally, if you do want to save the site, lets be perfectly clear. jt512 has driven more users, some quality, away from this site than any other problem. Of course this is anecdotal but I believe it to be true. When he gets going, he provides a truly close up look at mental illness. Had he never visited the site, I bet we'd still be seeing 2010 type of traffic.

I never noticed the spam, it was harmless and funny.


lena_chita
Moderator

Nov 4, 2013, 12:56 PM
Post #56 of 430 (2276 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5587

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
adatesman wrote:
macherry wrote:
they always come back (TM)

Funniest part is that is actually quoting Lena_chita from my FB feed. Tongue

But, yes. I'm a recovering RC addict. Hopes are up given the ownership change, but I'm withholding judgement until I see what direction Jeff takes.




Btw- Who's 1-starring my posts? Seriously, it's been *years*, and USNavy and I have long since buried the hatchet and might even consider each other *friends*. So it's not him. Is there someone else needing a hug?


lena stole that from me. trademarked it years ago!!Wink

I didn't steal it. I was quoting you, and considered it self-evident that everyone in that thread knew the source of the quote. I guess not...


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 1:00 PM
Post #57 of 430 (2272 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [lena_chita] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
macherry wrote:
adatesman wrote:
macherry wrote:
they always come back (TM)

Funniest part is that is actually quoting Lena_chita from my FB feed. Tongue

But, yes. I'm a recovering RC addict. Hopes are up given the ownership change, but I'm withholding judgement until I see what direction Jeff takes.




Btw- Who's 1-starring my posts? Seriously, it's been *years*, and USNavy and I have long since buried the hatchet and might even consider each other *friends*. So it's not him. Is there someone else needing a hug?


lena stole that from me. trademarked it years ago!!Wink

I didn't steal it. I was quoting you, and considered it self-evident that everyone in that thread knew the source of the quote. I guess not...

Awesome, seeing this spill from my FB feed to RC.

Laugh


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 1:09 PM
Post #58 of 430 (2257 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [angry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

angry wrote:
I honestly don't see a way to save this site. It is a tarnished brand and a joke. What's more, it does not have a single reason to visit other than the forums.

Forums are essentially bathroom stall walls. People will write bullshit just to see their own bullshit. I'm as guilty as anyone. Not everyone wants to see that. Look at MP.com, I know very few people who post there yet nearly everyone I've met uses the site. What reason does anyone have to use this site if not to post?

Finally, if you do want to save the site, lets be perfectly clear. jt512 has driven more users, some quality, away from this site than any other problem. Of course this is anecdotal but I believe it to be true. When he gets going, he provides a truly close up look at mental illness. Had he never visited the site, I bet we'd still be seeing 2010 type of traffic.

I never noticed the spam, it was harmless and funny.

A bit on the nose, Angry, but spot on. Also take note of which group is advocating for leaving the no-holds-barred-chat room thing, Jeff. Can't speak to JT's recent behavior, but he walks a delicate line of being just useful enough to be kept around in spite of being a raging narcissistic asshole. (Hi JT! Didn't miss you in the least!).

God damn... This place is worse than smack. All over my FB feed, I'm here again for another hit....

Anyway, Jeff, in all seriousness, you bought the site and you owe *nothing* to the established user base. Impose your vision and let it stand on it's merits. And think long and hard about the wisdom of maintaing the status quo.... If status quo was a good thing, they'd not have sold it.


Partner angry


Nov 4, 2013, 1:16 PM
Post #59 of 430 (2241 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
God damn... This place is worse than smack. All over my FB feed, I'm here again for another hit....

I've been clean for almost 4 years (minus a few drive by's).

Maybe that goes to show that there still is interest in this site.


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 1:46 PM
Post #60 of 430 (2223 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [angry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

angry wrote:
adatesman wrote:
God damn... This place is worse than smack. All over my FB feed, I'm here again for another hit....

I've been clean for almost 4 years (minus a few drive by's).

Maybe that goes to show that there still is interest in this site.


Clearly. Dragged me back after a very public ugliness, didn't it?

On a side note, I thought I left before you? Which is to say, I have no memory of you leaving. Has it been that many years?


Partner macherry


Nov 4, 2013, 2:13 PM
Post #61 of 430 (2203 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [lena_chita] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
macherry wrote:
adatesman wrote:
macherry wrote:
they always come back (TM)

Funniest part is that is actually quoting Lena_chita from my FB feed. Tongue

But, yes. I'm a recovering RC addict. Hopes are up given the ownership change, but I'm withholding judgement until I see what direction Jeff takes.




Btw- Who's 1-starring my posts? Seriously, it's been *years*, and USNavy and I have long since buried the hatchet and might even consider each other *friends*. So it's not him. Is there someone else needing a hug?


lena stole that from me. trademarked it years ago!!Wink

I didn't steal it. I was quoting you, and considered it self-evident that everyone in that thread knew the source of the quote. I guess not...

aric's been gone a while.....


Partner xtrmecat


Nov 4, 2013, 2:47 PM
Post #62 of 430 (2182 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

  Hi Jeff,
This used to be quite a site for beta and questions. There are still a few very great posters out there, but you may have noticed they only lurk and very infrequently post a little gem. There have been many an asshole visit and try to stomp others into submission. They too seem to have faded somewhat.

I only cruise here a couple times a month now, mostly because of the above mentioned assholes, but if things turned around, I would frequent much more often.

I try to post quality content and not give the usual bull advice that could kill the basically uninformed newby. I would like to see this thing revived to it's former self and beyond. It was a great source of entertainment as well as a valuable resource to the community, new or old.

Good luck with your adventure, I will tune in more often to see if it turns ugly or comes out of the gate slowly improving as she goes.

Burly Bob


ncrockclimber


Nov 4, 2013, 5:55 PM
Post #67 of 430 (2110 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [angry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

angry wrote:
...Finally, if you do want to save the site, lets be perfectly clear. jt512 has driven more users, some quality, away from this site than any other problem...

Maybe a slight exaggeration, but not too far off the mark.

Edit for clarity.


(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on Nov 4, 2013, 5:56 PM)


satch


Nov 4, 2013, 7:08 PM
Post #69 of 430 (2070 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 91

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think the main strength of RC.com is the database of routes. But it isn't as meaningful as it could be. I'd like to see more detailed beta on routes, such as mountain project offers. For long routes, we need more than a route description, we need suggested gear, pitch-by-pitch descriptions and descent beta. Users could provide this in the Ascents Recorded feature if a norm developed around that issue. Maybe some kind of reputation points would work like they do on some IT sites, like stackoverflow.com.

Also, I imagine the spam and trivial discussions are probably driving away your more experienced climbers. Again, some incentive to keep them involved might help.

I know social media is trendy, but I don't think it's a substitute for a void of expertise and helpful content.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 4, 2013, 7:36 PM
Post #72 of 430 (2052 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [satch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

satch wrote:
I think the main strength of RC.com is the database of routes. But it isn't as meaningful as it could be. I'd like to see more detailed beta on routes, such as mountain project offers. For long routes, we need more than a route description, we need suggested gear, pitch-by-pitch descriptions and descent beta. Users could provide this in the Ascents Recorded feature if a norm developed around that issue. Maybe some kind of reputation points would work like they do on some IT sites, like stackoverflow.com.

Also, I imagine the spam and trivial discussions are probably driving away your more experienced climbers. Again, some incentive to keep them involved might help.

I know social media is trendy, but I don't think it's a substitute for a void of expertise and helpful content.

You as a user already have the option to suggest edits to routes, input data on new routes, and get as much detailed about a route as you please. Additionally, every area is open to discussion through the forums, but the caveat is that you have to access the thread from the routes data base.


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 7:39 PM
Post #74 of 430 (2045 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [carabiner96] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Being me, I couldn't resist doing a bit of creepy stalker and it does look like DDT and NameMedia are out of the picture. Not sure what to make of Jeff's personal site not having an update since May, 2012. Busy guy from the looks of it, so no biggie. But DDT's site.... Well, it's still touting the fact that DropZone has merged with RC. As in, they reposted a press release from 2005. In November 2012. http://www.d4drmedia.com/...kclimbing_merge.html
<facepalm>


(edit because it's been so long I forgot how to do links here)


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 4, 2013, 7:41 PM)


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 7:44 PM
Post #75 of 430 (2040 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Again with the 1 star? [Edit- it was the previous post that got 1 starred, moments after posting.]

Sigh. The stars were such a great idea. If only they had been fully implemented.

Anyway, reading over your Bio, Jeff, I have to say I'm intrigued. When will you be unveiling your evil plan? Or perhaps simply responding to the thread?


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 4, 2013, 7:49 PM)


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 4, 2013, 7:47 PM
Post #76 of 430 (1916 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
Again with the 1 star?

Sigh. The stars were such a great idea. If only they had been fully implemented.
once you get over the whole star thing and realize that the points don't matter you seem to not care. But I gave you a hand, there, regardless. Wink


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 7:54 PM
Post #77 of 430 (1908 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

I know, i know.... It only bugs me because I remember the Mod deliberations that lead to them. It would have been glorious!

If only it had been fully implemented.



Then again, I did very much enjoy dropping the 10x Mod 1-star on every post of USNavy's once I realized he was 1-starring all of my posts just to be a dick. IIRC JT then noticed that the averages weren't lining up to the number of votes, and it was downhill from there.

Sigh.

Yeah, this place is like crack. Gotta go cold turkey again. Starting tomorrow.


adatesman


Nov 4, 2013, 8:04 PM
Post #79 of 430 (1892 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Anyone think Jeff is having buyer's remorse yet? ShockedLaugh


Partner Jeff
Owner

Nov 4, 2013, 11:18 PM
Post #91 of 430 (1743 views)
Shortcut

 
Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey all--I'm traveling for my day job this entire week, so my response times are going to be slower.

I hid a bunch of posts in this thread because they were totally non-constructive.

This thread is for folks to chime in with their thoughts on the future of the site and to ask me questions.

I'll be PM'ing a few of you shortly with more explanation of why I hid your posts.

[Edit: As I pm'd those of you whose posts I hid, I'm *not* making a sitewide policy that threads can't get derailed, just I'd appreciate if we keep this particular thread on-topic for two reasons: 1) I want to make sure I hear from a wide variety of users, not just the vocal ones, and tons of o/t posts starts to make a thread feel like it's insiders only, and 2) I'm trying to come up to speed as fast as possible and make sure I read all these posts and think about them and a long stream of off-topic discussion just adds more cycles that slows me down, which slows down how fast I can make changes to move this site forward. If you want to just chit-chat, there's plenty of other threads for that.]


As far as a more general update--Kristen and I spent a bunch of time this past weekend working on stuff. I'll try and write an update on our progress later this week.

Cheers,
Jeff


(This post was edited by Jeff on Nov 5, 2013, 9:08 AM)


granite_grrl


Nov 5, 2013, 4:42 AM
Post #92 of 430 (1702 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jeff wrote:
Hey all--I'm traveling for my day job this entire week, so my response times are going to be slower.

I hid a bunch of posts in this thread because they were totally non-constructive.

This thread is for folks to chime in with their thoughts on the future of the site and to ask me questions.

I'll be PM'ing a few of you shortly with more explanation of why I hid your posts.

As far as a more general update--Kristen and I spent a bunch of time this past weekend working on stuff. I'll try and write an update on our progress later this week.

Cheers,
Jeff

This thread has actually been one of the best in sense of community I have seen on RC.com for a long while. The community is what made this site what it was, and why it's been falling apart.

For me, the best part of this site was always getting to know people and then making an effort to meet them and go climbing when I was in their area. This is the stuff that kept/keeps the prominant posters.

There are some forum and topics where there should be heavy moderation, but in general you want people to talk with each other, not at each other, and thread drift is an indication that this is happening.


mojomonkey


Nov 5, 2013, 6:42 AM
Post #93 of 430 (1668 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 841

Re: [satch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

satch wrote:
I think the main strength of RC.com is the database of routes. But it isn't as meaningful as it could be. I'd like to see more detailed beta on routes, such as mountain project offers. For long routes, we need more than a route description, we need suggested gear, pitch-by-pitch descriptions and descent beta. Users could provide this in the Ascents Recorded feature if a norm developed around that issue. Maybe some kind of reputation points would work like they do on some IT sites, like stackoverflow.com.

Also, I imagine the spam and trivial discussions are probably driving away your more experienced climbers. Again, some incentive to keep them involved might help.

I know social media is trendy, but I don't think it's a substitute for a void of expertise and helpful content.

Regarding the route database, there is a thread in the S&F forum with some thoughts - hopefully more will be added and the route section will be improved.


Partner macherry


Nov 5, 2013, 6:55 AM
Post #94 of 430 (1660 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [mojomonkey] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

i agree with gg, this thread....all posts... has brought back a sense of community. most of the posters have been through the many changes of management and have a lot to offer.

looks like my first post was one of the posts to go. my point was !.this ship is sinking fast, if you're going to get change implemented, it has to be sooner than later.

2. i pointed out the absurdity of the statement of "being respectful to people, including women." and, that it might be better worded to "deal with sexism" on the site.

anyways, i've got a thick skin. i modded for many years.

good luck

but, you won't win any friends or favours by hiding posts you don't like


lena_chita
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 7:06 AM
Post #95 of 430 (1650 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5587

Re: [mojomonkey] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

mojomonkey wrote:
satch wrote:
I think the main strength of RC.com is the database of routes. But it isn't as meaningful as it could be. I'd like to see more detailed beta on routes, such as mountain project offers. For long routes, we need more than a route description, we need suggested gear, pitch-by-pitch descriptions and descent beta. Users could provide this in the Ascents Recorded feature if a norm developed around that issue. Maybe some kind of reputation points would work like they do on some IT sites, like stackoverflow.com.

Also, I imagine the spam and trivial discussions are probably driving away your more experienced climbers. Again, some incentive to keep them involved might help.

I know social media is trendy, but I don't think it's a substitute for a void of expertise and helpful content.

Regarding the route database, there is a thread in the S&F forum with some thoughts - hopefully more will be added and the route section will be improved.

I would really like to see improvements to the route database. There are many glitches and problems with it right now.


lena_chita
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 7:18 AM
Post #96 of 430 (1636 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5587

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Hey all--I'm traveling for my day job this entire week, so my response times are going to be slower.

I hid a bunch of posts in this thread because they were totally non-constructive.

This thread is for folks to chime in with their thoughts on the future of the site and to ask me questions.

I'll be PM'ing a few of you shortly with more explanation of why I hid your posts.

As far as a more general update--Kristen and I spent a bunch of time this past weekend working on stuff. I'll try and write an update on our progress later this week.

Cheers,
Jeff

This thread has actually been one of the best in sense of community I have seen on RC.com for a long while. The community is what made this site what it was, and why it's been falling apart.

For me, the best part of this site was always getting to know people and then making an effort to meet them and go climbing when I was in their area. This is the stuff that kept/keeps the prominant posters.

There are some forum and topics where there should be heavy moderation, but in general you want people to talk with each other, not at each other, and thread drift is an indication that this is happening.

I agree.

If all threads are limited strictly to answering the factual question, then there is no point to the forums. There are FAQs, they can be expanded, read them, done.

Back when I joined RC, I definitely felt a sense of community. It had a flavor, a tone, certain color to it. And all of that came not from answering 'which shoes do I get' with a standard 'try a bunch, pick the one that fits', but from extra conversations that surrounded the factual statements.


satch


Nov 5, 2013, 8:16 AM
Post #97 of 430 (1606 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 91

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I don't see how you link to the forums from the routes database, but anyway my point is that it doesn't happen on RC like it does on mountain project.
I know about adding to information to the the routes, I am adding to the routes data, but most users are not. In mountain project, almost all those who note that they climbed a route add some helpful information about the route. In RC.com the users typically just note that they climbed the route. They are ticking, rather than adding helpful information. If that were to change, I think it would make RC more appealing.


rocknice2


Nov 5, 2013, 8:27 AM
Post #98 of 430 (1600 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 1197

Re: [satch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

one of the biggest problems with the RDB is, route sequence. There is no way to squeeze a new route between #7 & #8 for example. Beg a moderator is the only way.


curt


Nov 5, 2013, 9:34 AM
Post #99 of 430 (1569 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
i agree with gg, this thread....all posts... has brought back a sense of community. most of the posters have been through the many changes of management and have a lot to offer.

looks like my first post was one of the posts to go. my point was !.this ship is sinking fast, if you're going to get change implemented, it has to be sooner than later.

2. i pointed out the absurdity of the statement of "being respectful to people, including women." and, that it might be better worded to "deal with sexism" on the site.

anyways, i've got a thick skin. i modded for many years.

good luck

but, you won't win any friends or favours by hiding posts you don't like

Not only that, but there will be absolutely no chance of recreating the vibrant online community that used to exist here--and that's why people came to RC.com. Mountain Project arguably has a better routes database, other sites are easier to share photos on, etc. It was the forums, with open and meaningful discussions, that made RC.com unique.

Curt


roninthorne


Nov 5, 2013, 9:47 AM
Post #100 of 430 (1559 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 632

Re: [mojomonkey] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

mojomonkey wrote:
satch wrote:
I think the main strength of RC.com is the database of routes. But it isn't as meaningful as it could be. I'd like to see more detailed beta on routes, such as mountain project offers. For long routes, we need more than a route description, we need suggested gear, pitch-by-pitch descriptions and descent beta. Users could provide this in the Ascents Recorded feature if a norm developed around that issue.

Regarding the route database, there is a thread in the S&F forum with some thoughts - hopefully more will be added and the route section will be improved.

Tried to do this with the WV section for several years- first by turning New River over to locals who are right there and have the latest and best beta (five stars to j_ung for that aspect of his career and some amusing and thoughtful posts, at the very least...) and by leaving Seneca Rocks to the guides who drag hordes of gumbies up there all year long, year in and out.

It helped... some.

But there are too many entries that are nothing more than the online version of being the first to piss on a crag; no location or directions, no fee or camping information, nothing about access issues or lack thereof, nothing but insipid or grandiose route names with unconfirmed grades, most of which are clearly aimed at pumping up the 8a.nu score and only placed on RC because the authors ran out of spew sites before Red Bull.

When posting up a new crag, route, or info doesn't require or elicit active input or at least a cursory glance from moderators, you are encouraging that type of unhelpful "dig me" data entry.

Nuff said on that account.

The forums have provided me with some of the finest moments of community, human connection, and laugh-out-loud humor I have experienced on any site on the net, and have, as well, provoked swear-at-your-screen anger with demonstrations of ignorance, malice, and stupidity (more than one of them mine). I have read some tales here that belonged in classes on classic mountain lit, and sen some images posted to these pages that relit the fire that burned in my belly as a tender youth.

Like some of the more recent posters, I have tried to fight my addiction to RC.com. I walked away from the WV db just before the thing traded hands, because the tone I got from the top was as preoccupied and uninterested as ever, and the reorganization of the database was at a standstill with the end of j_ung's involvement.

I'm hoping that you can turn things around... as much as RC became a place I loved to hate, it was, in the beginning, a great place to connect with climbers from around the globe and across the country; to share beta and find old friends and new partners, to keep climbers informed on access and impact, to debate and sometimes rage on issues, and to see great pics from across the range of climbing.

I wish you luck. If I can help in any way with the db, please don't hesitate to ask.

(but I can quit any time I want to.....

no, really.... I don't care...

....

wonder how many views my post has gotten?)

(This post was edited by roninthorne on Nov 5, 2013, 10:37 AM)


lena_chita
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 10:03 AM
Post #101 of 430 (2247 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5587

Re: [satch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

satch wrote:
I don't see how you link to the forums from the routes database, but anyway my point is that it doesn't happen on RC like it does on mountain project.
I know about adding to information to the the routes, I am adding to the routes data, but most users are not. In mountain project, almost all those who note that they climbed a route add some helpful information about the route. In RC.com the users typically just note that they climbed the route. They are ticking, rather than adding helpful information. If that were to change, I think it would make RC more appealing.

This would require changing the behavior of every user, and that is beyond the ability of any website owner. Besides, there are plenty of people who tick their sent routes on mp, and don't add any comments, and plenty of people who comment on routes here.

I see no value to the owners in making RC.com database a copy of mountain project database. But RC.com route log has features that MP lacks. There are graphs, the ability to track number of routes, the grade sent, etc. from year to year. Those could be improved to make them more valuable for people who use the route database for ticking routes. Simple changes such as making the log sortable/searchable, adding the ability to add multiple ticks for the same route, instead of creating a separate "ascent" for each time, making route grade a consensus of everyone's input, instead of whatever the first person entered, making it easier to remove duplicate route entries, etc. could go a long way.

Right now, the route database and the graphs that come with it is so outdated that someone has to go in and manually "create" a new year, for example. last year, it was ~February before the year 2013 made it's appearance on the charts.


satch


Nov 5, 2013, 11:33 AM
Post #102 of 430 (2200 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 91

Re: [lena_chita] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Not every user, Lena_chita, just enough of a core group to establish a better and different norm. There are (or were) some that added helpful info on routes.

Compare the comments on a popular route between the two websites, like Pleasant Overhangs at Seneca. MP has more helpful, informative comments per responder, RC has some and a lot of "." comments. Maybe the ticks should be separated from the comments.

MP has a helpful norm established, RC does not. Compare the tone of the forums - MP postings are very helpful and they don't seem to tolerate rude postings. Not so much the case at RC, although there are a few helpful posts, the good ones just seem to get lost in the noise. Take the recent trip report on Chamonix. Beautiful pics and some initial info on exciting routes. Could have been great, but it turned into a critique of the OP's use of Cray Cray.

I agree the graphs could be updated sooner and have more options. I would like that too, It would help, but that's a tech fix to a group dynamics problem.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 12:45 PM
Post #103 of 430 (2164 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Afraid I have to admit to going <creepy stalker> on you Jeff, and have an honest question.... Were you an active RC user prior to purchasing the site?

Given your background, the cynic in me is wondering if the purchase was driven by an interest in rock climbing and desire to turn the place around, or simply because your expertise is such that you'll succeed where NameMedia and D4DR failed?


(Before anyone asks, no. Do your own <creepy stalking> if you're that curious).



Edit to add a comma and the parenthetical.


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 5, 2013, 1:21 PM)


boymeetsrock


Nov 5, 2013, 1:10 PM
Post #104 of 430 (2141 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709

Re: [ncrockclimber] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ncrockclimber wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
FWIW I think many of the people who post on here like that things are a little more "raw"...


IMHO there is a SMALL minority of users that revel in being rude and sometimes abusive. For every user that likes it "raw" and has 1000s of intentionally inflammatory posts, there are 100s of users that would prefer to talk about rock climbing in the a more civil manner, similar to what we do when we meet face to face. By catering to the vocal minority, I think that you drive away the larger and more civil user group. I don't want to see a whitewashed and heavily moderated site, but don't particularly enjoy participating in a site where threads commonly devolve into insult contests. Although I do not have data to support this, I believe that the mass exodus of users happened way before the spamming. I quit visiting due to the site becoming progressively more toxic. I am sure others had different reasons.

+1

I have no problem with site users keeping each other in check. This site went well beyond that for quite some time. With everything there is a balance.


markc


Nov 5, 2013, 1:38 PM
Post #105 of 430 (2122 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2474

Re: [boymeetsrock] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

boymeetsrock wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
FWIW I think many of the people who post on here like that things are a little more "raw"...


IMHO there is a SMALL minority of users that revel in being rude and sometimes abusive. For every user that likes it "raw" and has 1000s of intentionally inflammatory posts, there are 100s of users that would prefer to talk about rock climbing in the a more civil manner, similar to what we do when we meet face to face. By catering to the vocal minority, I think that you drive away the larger and more civil user group. I don't want to see a whitewashed and heavily moderated site, but don't particularly enjoy participating in a site where threads commonly devolve into insult contests. Although I do not have data to support this, I believe that the mass exodus of users happened way before the spamming. I quit visiting due to the site becoming progressively more toxic. I am sure others had different reasons.

+1

I have no problem with site users keeping each other in check. This site went well beyond that for quite some time. With everything there is a balance.

I'm having trouble remembering exactly when moderation was much heavier and inconsistently applied. I came over to rc.com after wreck.climbing was already well in decline in non-spam posts. (Seeing a trend in my patterns?) While I'm not a fan of back and forth squabbling when it's clearly stopped being productive or people being dicks for the sake of it, I'd be much more likely to bail if moderation is too heavy-handed.

On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 1:59 PM
Post #106 of 430 (2103 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [markc] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.

Have to disagree on that point, as the existence of teen magazines is proof it's not true. It's that the user quickly outgrows the community, not that the community can't exist. The problem is striking a balance between making the community accessible to new folk while at the same time keeping the interest of the older ones. Plus with new ropes and shoes coming out all the time and the decline of brick&mortar stores, how else is someone new going to get opinions on their first pieces of gear?


boymeetsrock


Nov 5, 2013, 2:00 PM
Post #107 of 430 (2100 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709

Re: [markc] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
boymeetsrock wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
FWIW I think many of the people who post on here like that things are a little more "raw"...


IMHO there is a SMALL minority of users that revel in being rude and sometimes abusive. For every user that likes it "raw" and has 1000s of intentionally inflammatory posts, there are 100s of users that would prefer to talk about rock climbing in the a more civil manner, similar to what we do when we meet face to face. By catering to the vocal minority, I think that you drive away the larger and more civil user group. I don't want to see a whitewashed and heavily moderated site, but don't particularly enjoy participating in a site where threads commonly devolve into insult contests. Although I do not have data to support this, I believe that the mass exodus of users happened way before the spamming. I quit visiting due to the site becoming progressively more toxic. I am sure others had different reasons.

+1

I have no problem with site users keeping each other in check. This site went well beyond that for quite some time. With everything there is a balance.

I'm having trouble remembering exactly when moderation was much heavier and inconsistently applied. I came over to rc.com after wreck.climbing was already well in decline in non-spam posts. (Seeing a trend in my patterns?) While I'm not a fan of back and forth squabbling when it's clearly stopped being productive or people being dicks for the sake of it, I'd be much more likely to bail if moderation is too heavy-handed.

On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.

1)
Moderating has varied as the site has gone through changes. But that wasn't the point. We're talking about how users treated each other.

I agree with Curt and so many others. The community was the draw to this site. But I feel that, in the end, the community feel was destroyed by the community itself as much as by the management. Angry is right too, that feel may never return.

Harden the F*ck Up, is funny. Ad hominem attacks ad nauseum, not so much.

2)
As to this site catering to the n00bs, it only makes sense. With this domain name, every n00b who logs onto the internets will wind up here. I see that playing out with quality gear reviews, articles on technique, skills and training, and the beginner FAQ. The forums don't need much change in this regard, except perhaps in attitude.




Nice to see some respected and long absent users posting up on this thread.


shimanilami


Nov 5, 2013, 2:02 PM
Post #108 of 430 (2098 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

It would be nice if the "Rock Climbing Articles and News" were updated more often. Why bother having such a section - especially smack-dab in front of your face on the home page - if it can go months and months without change?


ncrockclimber


Nov 5, 2013, 2:06 PM
Post #109 of 430 (2097 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [markc] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:

+1

I have no problem with site users keeping each other in check. This site went well beyond that for quite some time. With everything there is a balance.

I'm having trouble remembering exactly when moderation was much heavier and inconsistently applied. I came over to rc.com after wreck.climbing was already well in decline in non-spam posts. (Seeing a trend in my patterns?) While I'm not a fan of back and forth squabbling when it's clearly stopped being productive or people being dicks for the sake of it, I'd be much more likely to bail if moderation is too heavy-handed.

On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.

Good points. Moderation is all about setting the tone and managing or ignoring a few consistently abusive users. Not everyone is going to be happy with whatever decision the new owners make. If nothing else, it will be interesting to see the direction in which they decide to take this site.


(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on Nov 5, 2013, 2:10 PM)


Partner cracklover


Nov 5, 2013, 2:07 PM
Post #110 of 430 (2095 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 9973

Re: [jt512] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
My recollection is that a large number of regular users were disgruntled with the direction the site took when DDT took it over, and left the site soon after. But I could be mistaken.

Your recollection matches mine. There were three things that happened in fairly quick succession that caused many of my friends to leave the site. I don't know the order, but it was all around 2006.

- Removing inline photos (on purpose)
- New design of the site
- Heavy handed moderation (like what happened to the Singles thread)

IIRC, this is also around when Climbsomething was forced out as a moderator?

Some really wonderful users, with decades of experience in the climbing world, good writers, good heads on their shoulders, left around then.

GO


olympicmtnboy


Nov 5, 2013, 2:16 PM
Post #111 of 430 (2080 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 4, 2003
Posts: 270

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Welcome Jeff and Kristen!

Wow, I hadn't logged on in months and I was really bored today. Hopefully this is great news for the future here. Like many I was at least a daily visitor and occasional contributor for several years back in the early-mid 2000's. It wasn't the spam that drove me off, I just kind of followed the herd when the users I liked hearing from left. NOOB threads decayed from interesting and useful advice and humorous heckling to other NOOBs responding with bad advice and others posting inane and annoying responses. I spend my time on cascadeclimbers.com and supertopo.com now and use the routes database on MountainProject. I did come back a bit with the really cool homemade cam contest and I enjoyed the exclusive OR gear show reports a lot too.

It's gonna be tough to get it back, but I think as long as new kids start climbing, people will stumble on this site. You need to make a place where some of the old folks still want to play too.

Since this is a question post, here it is: What do YOU want from this site? Were you a user before? What other forums or site do you or have you owned? Is this a personal interest/hobby/labor of love or are you trying to make it pay?

There aren't any right answers, and you maybe can revive the site either way, but it might help the conversation.


Partner macherry


Nov 5, 2013, 2:23 PM
Post #112 of 430 (2074 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
markc wrote:
On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.

Have to disagree on that point, as the existence of teen magazines is proof it's not true. It's that the user quickly outgrows the community, not that the community can't exist. The problem is striking a balance between making the community accessible to new folk while at the same time keeping the interest of the older ones. Plus with new ropes and shoes coming out all the time and the decline of brick&mortar stores, how else is someone new going to get opinions on their first pieces of gear?

what kept users coming to rc.com was a vibrant, sometimes bawdy, familiar forum known as community. i came to this site for climbing info but stayed because of the connections i made. through community i picked up some good climbing buddies and friends.........most of them i know only online and haven't met in real life. with changes in rc.com leadership and issues with the site, most of my interaction has switched over to facebook. give a look at the threads in campfire or soapbox, there is not much turnover in discussion.

i benefited from gear reviews and also swapping knowledge climber to climber, ie., what down jacket do you prefer, or what harness is more comfortable on a longer climb. it's these kinds of exchanges that keep users coming back.

as well, it has to be recognized that climbers are a rowdy bunch, there's going to be off colour talk and a few stfu noobs. just keep out the dumb assery sexist, racist, and homophobic crap.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 3:15 PM
Post #113 of 430 (2053 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
what kept users coming to rc.com was a vibrant, sometimes bawdy, familiar forum known as community. i came to this site for climbing info but stayed because of the connections i made. through community i picked up some good climbing buddies and friends.........most of them i know only online and haven't met in real life. with changes in rc.com leadership and issues with the site, most of my interaction has switched over to facebook. give a look at the threads in campfire or soapbox, there is not much turnover in discussion.

i benefited from gear reviews and also swapping knowledge climber to climber, ie., what down jacket do you prefer, or what harness is more comfortable on a longer climb. it's these kinds of exchanges that keep users coming back.

as well, it has to be recognized that climbers are a rowdy bunch, there's going to be off colour talk and a few stfu noobs. just keep out the dumb assery sexist, racist, and homophobic crap.

Not sure if that's agreeing with me or not, Marge. But if not, I'd like to amend my earlier statement to bring it more in line with what I meant, which is what you stated better. Smile


jakedatc


Nov 5, 2013, 3:21 PM
Post #114 of 430 (2049 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 11054

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jeff, you need to understand that you're on a pirate island and there are no rules, only 'guidelines'.

people have tried to change that and the site only lost users. Hell, Boldering.com was basically built on RC escapees. Think of taking the biker bar and trying to turn it into a bagel shop.

I was a regular poster on here for almost 10 years and the best people i've climbed with are rough and tough skinned people online and off.


Partner macherry


Nov 5, 2013, 3:25 PM
Post #115 of 430 (2041 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 15794

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
macherry wrote:
what kept users coming to rc.com was a vibrant, sometimes bawdy, familiar forum known as community. i came to this site for climbing info but stayed because of the connections i made. through community i picked up some good climbing buddies and friends.........most of them i know only online and haven't met in real life. with changes in rc.com leadership and issues with the site, most of my interaction has switched over to facebook. give a look at the threads in campfire or soapbox, there is not much turnover in discussion.

i benefited from gear reviews and also swapping knowledge climber to climber, ie., what down jacket do you prefer, or what harness is more comfortable on a longer climb. it's these kinds of exchanges that keep users coming back.

as well, it has to be recognized that climbers are a rowdy bunch, there's going to be off colour talk and a few stfu noobs. just keep out the dumb assery sexist, racist, and homophobic crap.

Not sure if that's agreeing with me or not, Marge. But if not, I'd like to amend my earlier statement to bring it more in line with what I meant, which is what you stated better. Smile

i am in agreement

but who the hell gives you one star for quoting me!!


Gmburns2000


Nov 5, 2013, 3:25 PM
Post #116 of 430 (2041 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15111

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I miss the gear reviews from John. He always did good work on those trade shows.

I never enjoyed the lab talk because I'm just not interested in the physics of everything and those conversations could get numb from the over-analysis of the numbers, but I think those conversations were a good part of the meat for a while, and I did learn something when someone finally wrote up a summary for dummies.

I've always learned something (or tried to) from the injury reports and analysis, too.

Other than the super-secret posting hiding place, that's where the bulk of my interest was always focused. It was always about the discussion for me, and if I learned something then I was more likely to stick around. Once it turned into a super-specific, narrowed down to the lowest common denominator, I'm right because I said this tiny thing that you ignored kind of crap...that's when I tuned out.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 3:27 PM
Post #118 of 430 (2036 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Another one for Jeff, who I will henceforth only refer to as NewBoss, much as j_ung became known as Bluey.... (perhaps differentiating yourself with a better color name?)

In your OP, NewBoss, you made mention of no tolerance for sexually explicit content and went on to remove posts in this thread regarding the original logo, which as a (very) long-running joke has been oft referred to as an (unnamed part of anatomy). Trying to remove vulgarity from a rock climbing site is a fool's errand. Case in point, the seminal pic of the Vulgarian movement in the Gunks, involving a naked Dick Williams climbing Shockley's ceiling.

Link to not offend anyone: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/...unks%2Bvulgarian.jpg

Under the no vulgarity rule, discussion of this pic or even the Vulgarian movement in general would be out of bounds. And that's not even touching on the names used in the Routes Database.... Some of them would curdle milk!


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 5, 2013, 3:33 PM
Post #120 of 430 (2029 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.


carabiner96


Nov 5, 2013, 3:37 PM
Post #121 of 430 (2026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12523

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.
Just wait until he pulls the roof!


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 3:39 PM
Post #122 of 430 (2025 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [Gmburns2000] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Gmburns2000 wrote:
I miss the gear reviews from John. He always did good work on those trade shows.

IIRC he's now over at DPM. Not sure he added much value other than the show postings though.

Gmburns2000 wrote:
I never enjoyed the lab talk because I'm just not interested in the physics of everything and those conversations could get numb from the over-analysis of the numbers, but I think those conversations were a good part of the meat for a while, and I did learn something when someone finally wrote up a summary for dummies.

Fair point, and why Bluey segregated it out into a moderated forum of its own. Not everyone's cup of tea, and frankly for the short while it lasted was the only place the Enginerds could call home.


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 3:40 PM
Post #123 of 430 (2023 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [macherry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

macherry wrote:
looks like my first post was one of the posts to go. my point was !.this ship is sinking fast, if you're going to get change implemented, it has to be sooner than later.

That's what I was trying to say in another thread. Strangely, it was interpreted as a threat.

In reply to:
but, you won't win any friends or favours by hiding posts you don't like

Indeed.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 3:47 PM
Post #124 of 430 (1999 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.

Very true, Happie. But remember, the pic is from the 1950's and what was acceptable then is far from what is acceptable now. Case in point (again, linked to avoid offending):

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ry_semen_100947.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._My_Semen_55390.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...na_Vagina_66499.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ed_Vagina_42730.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...gina_Envy_67621.html

I could go on, but think I made my point in the least offensive way possible. Sorry if it runs afoul what you want for the site, Jeff NewBoss, but truth is that this aspect of it is beyond your control.



Edit: should be obvious.


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 5, 2013, 3:53 PM)


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 3:53 PM
Post #125 of 430 (1984 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jeff wrote:

I'll be PM'ing a few of you shortly with more explanation of why I hid your posts.

[Edit: As I pm'd those of you whose posts I hid, I'm *not* making a sitewide policy that threads can't get derailed, just I'd appreciate if we keep this particular thread on-topic for two reasons: 1) I want to make sure I hear from a wide variety of users, not just the vocal ones, and tons of o/t posts starts to make a thread feel like it's insiders only, and 2) I'm trying to come up to speed as fast as possible and make sure I read all these posts and think about them and a long stream of off-topic discussion just adds more cycles that slows me down, which slows down how fast I can make changes to move this site forward. If you want to just chit-chat, there's plenty of other threads for that.]

Jeff

OK, but but first impressions are important. DDT made some heavy-handed moves when he took over, and essentially lost the race right out of the starting gate. Most of us really don't like to be told what to say or how to say it.


(This post was edited by jt512 on Nov 5, 2013, 5:49 PM)


curt


Nov 5, 2013, 3:54 PM
Post #126 of 430 (1707 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (11 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.

I wouldn't think so either, but I was told via PM that my posts were hidden specifically because they compared the old RC.com logo to a women's vagina--and that there is now a site-wide policy going forward banning things that are "sexually crude."

1) I guess I never knew the word "vagina" was sexually offensive.

2) I'd say this initial action by Jeff doesn't bode very well for the future of RC.com's forums.

Curt


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 4:15 PM
Post #127 of 430 (1688 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

curt wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.

I wouldn't think so either, but I was told via PM that my posts were hidden specifically because they compared the old RC.com logo to a women's vagina--and that there is now a site-wide policy going forward banning things that are "sexually crude."

1) I guess I never knew the word "vagina" was sexually offensive.

2) I'd say this initial action by Jeff doesn't bode very well for the future of RC.com's forums.

Curt

Actually, Curt, I'd say it doesn't bode will for your tenure here, given you're part of the problem.


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 4:45 PM
Post #128 of 430 (1652 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

curt wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I don't think many people would consider that picture (Williams on the first nude ascent of Shockley's Ceiling) to be sexually explicit content.

I wouldn't think so either, but I was told via PM that my posts were hidden specifically because they compared the old RC.com logo to a women's vagina--and that there is now a site-wide policy going forward banning things that are "sexually crude."

1) I guess I never knew the word "vagina" was sexually offensive.

2) I'd say this initial action by Jeff doesn't bode very well for the future of RC.com's forums.

Curt

I just communicated those points to Jeff by P.M.


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 4:56 PM
Post #129 of 430 (1633 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [jt512] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
I just communicated those points to Jeff by P.M.


Guess I'm not so special then. Nor are a whole lot of other people, many of who were contacted *by* NewBoss, who contacted them unsolicited for feedback. Long story short, JT, there's a reason Curt keeps popping up in my FB feed as someone I might know and you don't. And why so many people attribute the exodus from RC to you personally. And why your nonsense isn't tolerated elsewhere. NewBoss will likely not be the same as OldBoss, and that probably means your days are numbered.


USnavy


Nov 5, 2013, 4:57 PM
Post #130 of 430 (1627 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2660

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
Again with the 1 star? [Edit- it was the previous post that got 1 starred, moments after posting.]

Sigh. The stars were such a great idea. If only they had been fully implemented.
I dont think they are. I do not know of a single website in which the system works well. Consider why Facebook, the second largest website on the Internet, does not use a "dislike" button. They dont add one because it creates a negative experience, which is not in the best interest of any company. Websites should remain net-neutral, and allow its users to determine the quality and worth of a post or piece of advice. The website, via a rating system or other means, should not be filtering the content.

No matter how you implement a rating system, it will never reflect the actual accuracy of a post, only its popularity.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Nov 5, 2013, 5:00 PM)


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 5, 2013, 4:58 PM
Post #131 of 430 (1623 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Another 24 hours and this thread will represent the perfect microcosm of rockclimbing.com.


The comment about Buyer's Remorse is beginning to seem more apt - hahaha


USnavy


Nov 5, 2013, 5:02 PM
Post #132 of 430 (1604 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2660

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
Then again, I did very much enjoy dropping the 10x Mod 1-star on every post of USNavy's once I realized he was 1-starring all of my posts just to be a dick.
Well sorry to kill your buzz, but I used Ad-Block Plus to remove the staring system from the website years ago, so I never saw those one stars, just like I dont see them now. Wink


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 5:02 PM
Post #133 of 430 (1604 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
The comment about Buyer's Remorse is beginning to seem more apt - hahaha

Not to blow up my own skirt, but I'm kinda proud of that one. Angelic


adatesman


Nov 5, 2013, 5:03 PM
Post #135 of 430 (1601 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [USnavy] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
adatesman wrote:
Then again, I did very much enjoy dropping the 10x Mod 1-star on every post of USNavy's once I realized he was 1-starring all of my posts just to be a dick.
Well sorry to kill your buzz, but I used Ad-Block Plus to remove the staring system from the website years ago, so I never saw those one stars, just like I dont see them now. Wink

Knew it wasn't you, Sayar. Smile





Edit.... Ok, conspiracy theory time... who else might have unsettled business with me here on RC all these years later? That has experience in coding? And wrote the oft-used Greasemonkey RC killfile script? JT!!!!



(seriously, if there was a way to see if my posts were immediately 1-starred when JT sees them, I'd be very curious. They'll sit for a while unrated, so it's not a site-based script, so....?)


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 5, 2013, 5:06 PM)


curt


Nov 5, 2013, 5:15 PM
Post #136 of 430 (1575 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (9 ratings)  
Can't Post

With respect to me:

adatesman wrote:
Actually, Curt, I'd say it doesn't bode will for your tenure here, given you're part of the problem.

and with respect to jt512:

adatesman wrote:
NewBoss will likely not be the same as OldBoss, and that probably means your days are numbered.

It's truly amazing how you believe you can actually speak for the new owners and essentially threaten long time RC.com users with expulsion. Particularly since you're the one who stomped his feet, cried like a little girl to the previous management--and then took all his marbles and went home. You seriously need to get over yourself.

Curt


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 5:19 PM
Post #137 of 430 (1565 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
markc wrote:
On another note, some people have suggested catering to the n00b. Moving away from the cliche "do a search" or "you're gonna die" replies would be nice, but you can't maintain a community around shoe and first rope discussions.

Have to disagree on that point, as the existence of teen magazines is proof it's not true. It's that the user quickly outgrows the community, not that the community can't exist. The problem is striking a balance between making the community accessible to new folk while at the same time keeping the interest of the older ones. Plus with new ropes and shoes coming out all the time and the decline of brick&mortar stores, how else is someone new going to get opinions on their first pieces of gear?

By doing a search!


dagibbs


Nov 5, 2013, 5:19 PM
Post #139 of 430 (1563 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2007
Posts: 880

Re: [USnavy] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
adatesman wrote:
Again with the 1 star? [Edit- it was the previous post that got 1 starred, moments after posting.]

Sigh. The stars were such a great idea. If only they had been fully implemented.
I dont think they are. I do not know of a single website in which the system works well. .

slashdot


lonequail


Nov 5, 2013, 6:30 PM
Post #152 of 430 (2309 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 8, 2004
Posts: 65

Re: [angry] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
angry wrote:
I honestly don't see a way to save this site. It is a tarnished brand and a joke. What's more, it does not have a single reason to visit other than the forums.

Forums are essentially bathroom stall walls. People will write bullshit just to see their own bullshit. I'm as guilty as anyone. Not everyone wants to see that. Look at MP.com, I know very few people who post there yet nearly everyone I've met uses the site. What reason does anyone have to use this site if not to post?

Finally, if you do want to save the site, lets be perfectly clear. jt512 has driven more users, some quality, away from this site than any other problem. Of course this is anecdotal but I believe it to be true. When he gets going, he provides a truly close up look at mental illness. Had he never visited the site, I bet we'd still be seeing 2010 type of traffic.

I never noticed the spam, it was harmless and funny.

Happy: Good to see you back from the dark side, or should that be "welcome back to the dark side"!
Hope you're doing well.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 7:58 PM
Post #160 of 430 (2190 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey all. In the spirit of Jeff's edits yesterday regarding going off-topic in this thread, I have detached the cornerstone and beginning of the tryst conversation, that many of you -if you've been following for the past few hours - have seen in here. You will find that thread not locked, not stickied, in the General forum (this one). Please continue and keep your one-upsmanship and banter in there. I also took the liberty of hiding the rest of the posts that were not part of the quote tree.

The posts are not lost, nor are they deleted from this thread. They are only hidden from general view. The moderators and Jeff are able to see them; and if Jeff so desires he has full right to unhide them. With that said, yes I went heavy-handed on moderation and I am fully aware of doing so. This was quite deliberate and and within the intent of this thread and what Jeff is looking for.

Please keep this thread on topic (or as close to on topic as possible).


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 8:01 PM
Post #161 of 430 (2187 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

epoch wrote:
Hey all. In the spirit of Jeff's edits yesterday regarding going off-topic in this thread, I have detached the cornerstone and beginning of the tryst conversation, that many of you -if you've been following for the past few hours - have seen in here. You will find that thread not locked, not stickied, in the General forum (this one). Please continue and keep your one-upsmanship and banter in there. I also took the liberty of hiding the rest of the posts that were not part of the quote tree.

The posts are not lost, nor are they deleted from this thread. They are only hidden from general view. The moderators and Jeff are able to see them; and if Jeff so desires he has full right to unhide them. With that said, yes I went heavy-handed on moderation and I am fully aware of doing so. This was quite deliberate and and within the intent of this thread and what Jeff is looking for.

Please keep this thread on topic (or as close to on topic as possible).

Epoch, please move the posts discussing blockquoting back to this thread. They are (I would hope) exactly the type of input from users Jeff is looking for.

Thanks in advance.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 8:09 PM
Post #162 of 430 (2178 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [jt512] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
...There has been a disturbing trend in forum software toward making it harder to include nested quotes or even multiple non-nested quotes in a post. One common software platform allows multiple quoting, by going back through the thread and individually clicking on the posts to be quoted, but (1) the mechanism is cumbersome, and so it is rarely used, and (2) even when it is used, the quoted posts are not nested or necessarily posted in the correct order, which makes it less useful for following the discussion.

On forums with no or limited nested quoting, conversations frequently become derailed by accusations of people not following the train of thought or taking comments out of context. But you can't blame people for losing the train of thought or taking comments out of context, if they have to read through pages of posts in an attempt to figure out what the train of thought or the context actually is.

In reply to:
In fact, I kinda recall something years ago about Sungam trying to see how many nested quotes were required to crash the server. And succeeding.

No, I don't think he was trying to, or did in fact, crash the server. In fact I don't think his prank caused any long-term, or even short-term trouble for the website. Since this website's niche has always been in-depth discussion about climbing, it would be far better to put up with the occasional prankster than to eliminate the very mechanism that allows for in-depth discussion to take place.

That said, there could, perhaps, be a default limit of three or four levels of nesting imposed by the software, with the option of the poster overriding the default if he or she felt more levels of nesting were required for clarity.


(This post was edited by epoch on Nov 5, 2013, 8:18 PM)


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 8:10 PM
Post #163 of 430 (2175 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jt512 wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
"On forums with no or limited nested quoting, conversations frequently become derailed by accusations of people not following the train of thought or taking comments out of context."

The only thing I didn't care about the quote function was that anyone could alter what was said inside of any quote.
Even the author themselves should not be able to change a quote.

We actually had a rule, instituted at my insistence, that intentionally misquoting a user was a bannable offence.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 5, 2013, 8:10 PM
Post #164 of 430 (2174 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I can't move those posts back but I quoted the last relevant posts from that thread. Please use them going forward.


jt512


Nov 5, 2013, 8:22 PM
Post #165 of 430 (2156 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21890

Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

epoch wrote:
I can't move those posts back but I quoted the last relevant posts from that thread. Please use them going forward.

Thanks.


mojomonkey


Nov 5, 2013, 9:01 PM
Post #166 of 430 (2133 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 841

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
Another 24 hours and this thread will represent the perfect microcosm of rockclimbing.com.


The comment about Buyer's Remorse is beginning to seem more apt - hahaha


Suddenly the SPAM doesn't seem so bad


Partner Jeff
Owner

Nov 5, 2013, 9:48 PM
Post #167 of 430 (2107 views)
Shortcut

 
Re: [epoch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I just got in from a very long workday and I'm totally exhausted--I'm on the road this week so things are a bit helter-skelter.

Very much appreciate Epoch stepping in and moving the O/T posts elsewhere.

I know many of you are curious what I plan to do with this feedback and the site in general.

I don't expect to make many of the bigger decisions until mid-December because I've been reaching out to as many of you as I can to schedule private phone/skype conversations to dig deeper into some of the issues that have been raised in this thread. If you're interested in chatting and haven't heard from me, just PM me and we'll schedule a time.

I expect these conversations to be finished mid-December because scheduling all those conversations just takes a while, and at that point my wife and I will go on a few hikes to talk through what we've learned and make decisions regarding moderation policies and the culture we'd like to cultivate on the site.

That'll be the point where I expect some of you will choose to head elsewhere and some of you will choose to be more involved. It'd be nice if we could please everyone, but as I mentioned before, a site that appeals to everyone appeals to no one.

Anyway, just wanted to set expectations that mid-late December is my currently forecasted timeframe for those decisions.


(This post was edited by Jeff on Mar 8, 2014, 10:43 PM)


curt


Nov 6, 2013, 10:26 AM
Post #169 of 430 (1981 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hi Jeff,

In my opinion, you would do well to listen to comments such as these, posted earlier in this very thread:


granite_grrl wrote:
This thread has actually been one of the best in sense of community I have seen on RC.com for a long while. The community is what made this site what it was, and why it's been falling apart. For me, the best part of this site was always getting to know people and then making an effort to meet them and go climbing when I was in their area. This is the stuff that kept/keeps the prominant posters.

macherry wrote:
i agree with gg, this thread....all posts... has brought back a sense of community. most of the posters have been through the many changes of management and have a lot to offer.

lena_chita wrote:
I agree. If all threads are limited strictly to answering the factual question, then there is no point to the forums. There are FAQs, they can be expanded, read them, done. Back when I joined RC, I definitely felt a sense of community. It had a flavor, a tone, certain color to it. And all of that came not from answering 'which shoes do I get' with a standard 'try a bunch, pick the one that fits', but from extra conversations that surrounded the factual statements.

This sense of community is a nebulous thing. It isn't something that can be coded into a website or provided by site management--it can only come from the users themselves. It's interesting that a number of users felt that this thread provided that sense of community that has been lacking for some time.

On the other hand, while management can not provide "community" they can certainly kill the environment necessary for it to flourish--and by hiding posts and/or splitting off posts that you or other moderators don't feel are "relevant" you definitely run the risk of doing precisely that.

As mentioned earlier, the discussion forums have always been the crown jewel of RC.com, not the routes database or other site attributes. I think it's good that you're taking the time to talk with as many interested people as possible before implementing any permanent changes. Hopefully we can collectively get RC.com back to the point where this thread was briefly.

Curt


Toast_in_the_Machine


Nov 6, 2013, 8:17 PM
Post #170 of 430 (1855 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

First, let me agree with [curt]’s comments above on the sense of community. He really hit the nail on the head. It is the community and building and maintaining that is a tricky task. Looking at the names in this thread still shows how deep the community goes. My recommendation would be to look at the comment history of [curt], [jt512], [angry], [adatesman], [JimTitt], and [rgold] to see what can be had and how it can be lost. Oh – and please read the “ask the n00b” and find Gabe W. again.

I don’t think the problem is technical, it is “social” and, yes, I do have several specific recommendations.

First – ditch the stars. If you can’t tell what is a good comment then the stars won’t help. It promotes a pettiness that is unseemly and not constructive.

Second, while the community must rule, the route guide should either be updated or shut down.

Third – release the Magid! I&A reports are so important. I think that the “corporate” hesitancy to talk about the risk in this sport killed discussion. Moderation of accidents is difficult, but people understanding what can go wrong counts in climbing. I had a bland I&A story of taking a friend climbing in a gym and his son’s minor fall. Would have been a good lesson to all, but without the active community – why would I spend my time posting? Accept that some “ambulance chasing” comes with an active I&A community. And when there is disagreement on cause or blame or fault, let it run – that is what we are here for. That is how we learn.

Fourth – bring back the lab! The lab doesn’t have to be perfect or worthy of peer review. Trust us, if it isn’t worthy, we will let them know. The lab doesn’t have to be perfect just interesting.

And lastly – since you title this thread “AMA” that points to reddit – that great anonymous glob machine. Don’t try to be reddit. The people who post here are people. We have our photos. Our names are listed. We, the great PTFTW masses make this site run. As we left (due to boredom), the site went down. Find ways that we can have fun and the non-posters, the non-accounts, the generic hit counts will return.

Again, the problem isn’t technical, it is personal.


6pacfershur


Nov 6, 2013, 9:00 PM
Post #171 of 430 (1842 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 214

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

burn it to the ground, collect the insurance, move to the North Shore.........


notapplicable


Nov 6, 2013, 10:02 PM
Post #172 of 430 (1815 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17766

Re: [adatesman] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

adatesman wrote:
angry wrote:
adatesman wrote:
God damn... This place is worse than smack. All over my FB feed, I'm here again for another hit....

I've been clean for almost 4 years (minus a few drive by's).

Maybe that goes to show that there still is interest in this site.


Clearly. Dragged me back after a very public ugliness, didn't it?

On a side note, I thought I left before you? Which is to say, I have no memory of you leaving. Has it been that many years?

He thought you were handled too roughly during the whole slash and burn episode. He resigned in protest. It was all very touching.


(This post was edited by notapplicable on Nov 6, 2013, 10:04 PM)


notapplicable


Nov 6, 2013, 10:43 PM
Post #173 of 430 (1794 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17766

Re: [notapplicable] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Dear new Over Lord, you're being given sound advice.

Yes, It would be nice to have a slick route database, up-to-date climbing news on the front page, a well organized photo & video archive, etc... but ultimately, at the end of the day, the one thing this site has traditionally been about are the forums and the community they foster(ed?). Don't smother that.

I personally think this site can walk and talk at the same time so please, change the architecture of the place, but make it an open concept affair. No fences and minimal grounds patrols. The inmates can run this asylum just fine.


blueshrimp


Nov 7, 2013, 5:31 AM
Post #174 of 430 (1759 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 147

Re: [notapplicable] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

To the new owner I have only one suggestion/request:

Please change the theme of the site. It looks horrible and it has the color of green vomit.

Thank you.


granite_grrl


Nov 7, 2013, 6:23 AM
Post #175 of 430 (1734 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [blueshrimp] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

blueshrimp wrote:
To the new owner I have only one suggestion/request:

Please change the theme of the site. It looks horrible and it has the color of green vomit.

Thank you.

I still have the option on the front page to change my colour scheme. I'm using blue.


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 7, 2013, 6:46 AM
Post #176 of 430 (2691 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Yes, but it's still hideous and boring!

I had to laugh when that "personalization" was added to the site. It was like "Why would you provide us the option to toggle between these dark and dreary color schemes?(though I agree that the blue is the better of them).


ncrockclimber


Nov 7, 2013, 8:08 AM
Post #177 of 430 (2659 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.


granite_grrl


Nov 7, 2013, 8:25 AM
Post #178 of 430 (2643 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [ncrockclimber] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).


Partner cracklover


Nov 7, 2013, 8:30 AM
Post #179 of 430 (2639 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 9973

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

Clicky -> http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=user_posts;so=DESC;

GO


granite_grrl


Nov 7, 2013, 8:43 AM
Post #180 of 430 (2623 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [cracklover] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

Clicky -> http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=user_posts;so=DESC;

GO

Only 154 posts to go Gabe!


roninthorne


Nov 7, 2013, 9:15 AM
Post #181 of 430 (2597 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 632

Re: [ncrockclimber] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

Perhaps... or it could just be an unreasonable attachment to those apparently outmoded concepts of freedom of speech and standing up for what you believe in.

Meanwhile, all the calls to heavily moderate the forums sound like someone asking their Dad to come back them up when they argue with the older kids on the playground, or debate with the smarter kids in school.

Moderate the info in the noobs forum, and let the rest of it run.


carabiner96


Nov 7, 2013, 9:17 AM
Post #182 of 430 (2593 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12523

Re: [cracklover] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

Clicky -> http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=user_posts;so=DESC;

GO
Well, that's embarrassing.


adatesman


Nov 7, 2013, 9:18 AM
Post #183 of 430 (2593 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Fourth – bring back the lab! The lab doesn’t have to be perfect or worthy of peer review. Trust us, if it isn’t worthy, we will let them know. The lab doesn’t have to be perfect just interesting.


Correct me if I'm wrong, Toast, but isn't The Lab right where it's always been and fully open for anyone to contribute? Only difference is that there's not anyone there anymore to generate interest and facilitate discussion. Which frankly is exactly how it was before I came along.

BTW, those sorts of discussions still happen. Mostly on MP from what I've seen, plus as an occasional tangent in a thread on ST.


On another note, Majid got canned? SMH. Amazes me how few people got that his online persona is entirely schtick done intentionally to provoke discussion about what is and what is not safe. Emailed with him a bunch, and he's quite the nice guy.


(This post was edited by adatesman on Nov 7, 2013, 9:23 AM)


ncrockclimber


Nov 7, 2013, 9:36 AM
Post #184 of 430 (2578 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [roninthorne] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ron, I am not calling for "heavy" moderation. I am also not asking for my anyone to back me up. I am simply saying that a few VERY persistent posters think that it is appropriate to be rude and condescending to anyone that disagrees with them. That type of behavior, although amusing at times, tends to drive away users that don't want to enter into a verbal sparing match on every thread.

Every forum has a personality. The personality being espoused by some posters on this thread is one that does not appeal to me. I think that user traffic shows that I am not alone in this opinion.


Fred20


Nov 7, 2013, 9:50 AM
Post #185 of 430 (2558 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 28, 2012
Posts: 50

Re: [satch] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

satch wrote:
Not every user, Lena_chita, just enough of a core group to establish a better and different norm. There are (or were) some that added helpful info on routes.

Compare the comments on a popular route between the two websites, like Pleasant Overhangs at Seneca. MP has more helpful, informative comments per responder, RC has some and a lot of "." comments. Maybe the ticks should be separated from the comments.

MP has a helpful norm established, RC does not. Compare the tone of the forums - MP postings are very helpful and they don't seem to tolerate rude postings. Not so much the case at RC, although there are a few helpful posts, the good ones just seem to get lost in the noise. Take the recent trip report on Chamonix. Beautiful pics and some initial info on exciting routes. Could have been great, but it turned into a critique of the OP's use of Cray Cray.

I agree the graphs could be updated sooner and have more options. I would like that too, It would help, but that's a tech fix to a group dynamics problem.

I'm with SATCH on this. Lady posts awesome (IMO) trip report w/ pics and the post was trolled for its Subject Title...I really get annoyed when people try to out GRAMMAR other people on the internet. This is a forum, nothing here is being "published"...save the critiques for vague posts that need clarification

I have only been browsing here for a little over a year though, my $0.02


majid_sabet


Nov 7, 2013, 9:55 AM
Post #186 of 430 (2549 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8344

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

let's get some of the old RC members who were send to Guantanamo to do their time back to RC so they could contribute to good forums such as "LAB"

And remove the badge of few young nazi cops who patrol forums and send US nany to Afghanistan to do more push up and find routes in lower Himalayas.

He can also do more testing in mazarsharif opium field


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Nov 7, 2013, 12:07 PM)


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 7, 2013, 10:24 AM
Post #187 of 430 (2526 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

Actually, if you take a few moments to click through to the posts of those 10K+ users, you see that those experienced and knowledgeable climbers have shared little or no relevant content within the last two years (with a few exceptions).


granite_grrl


Nov 7, 2013, 10:35 AM
Post #188 of 430 (2514 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14704

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
In reply to:
Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

Actually, if you take a few moments to click through to the posts of those 10K+ users, you see that those experienced and knowledgeable climbers have shared little or no relevant content within the last two years (with a few exceptions).

There's nothing to post to on this site anymore.


JohnCook


Nov 7, 2013, 10:39 AM
Post #189 of 430 (2512 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 26, 2006
Posts: 220

Re: [Jeff] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It is apparent that what these forums really need is an option for people to opt out of having to read posts from individuals who "spoil" things for them.
I read it all, not as much as I used to, but when I'm on here every post gets read.
I rarely post and try to keep on topic and respectful, but that is my nature.
No heavy central moderation is needed, keep it at the level it is at now.


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 7, 2013, 10:40 AM
Post #190 of 430 (2509 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
There's nothing to post to on this site anymore.


Could that be because....
In reply to:
....over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating.


climber511


Nov 7, 2013, 11:06 AM
Post #191 of 430 (2482 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 41

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

I admit I'm an old guy - but so many of the posts have become so toxic I have nearly quit visiting. It's not worth going through the seemingly teen age BS to try and find the serious answers to questions. Someone asks a for real question - 20 posts later - after all the judgmental and infantile and off topic nonsense, someone will finally answer the question for the poor guy - who by now has probably given up and gone somewhere else. You need a "serious" section with heavy moderation and banning if you want a forum of value for people who actually want to learn. Then an infantile section for the rest.


mojomonkey


Nov 7, 2013, 11:12 AM
Post #192 of 430 (2473 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 841

Re: [happiegrrrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

happiegrrrl wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
There's nothing to post to on this site anymore.


Could that be because....
In reply to:
....over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating.

Possible. Though what you consider noise may also be drawing in other users with tastes different than yours.

The problem may be more fundamental - why bother with RC.com? The site's staying power waned. I used to look at photos, check out the route database, maybe even read the articles posted. But I go elsewhere for those things now because I get a better experience. Years ago RC was the only route database for lots of areas I was interested in. The route DB on MP probably pulls in a lot of users now. It is much broader now and easier for me to find info on, or ask a question about, a specific route. For a question the best you can do here is a regional forum. Folks often are unable to figure out how to post a thread linked to a region and just dump it in general, so good luck finding that info again with the weak search here.

On MP I can look through the comments for a specific route. Maybe my question has been covered already. If not, maybe someone answers it and the info is easily found by others. And anyone can comment on the route without having to log an ascent and add it to the notes like here (and only 5 of those are show at a time).

So I start using MP for that info. Same with news items, or pictures*, or gear reviews. I found better sites for all of those. So what is left here? What does RC excel at to keep me checking in?

* Say I want to find nice pictures from the Gunks to daydream about. I can click on the photo link from the Gunks page, or try an advanced search on a destination from the photo tab. Different results - number of photos and ordering - for each method. I don't see any way to chose the sorting (views, ratings, comments?). The thumbnails are tiny - 75x75 in case I am on dial up? The bulk of the page is text. I want to find some photos!


(This post was edited by mojomonkey on Nov 7, 2013, 11:21 AM)


Gmburns2000


Nov 7, 2013, 11:17 AM
Post #193 of 430 (2463 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15111

Re: [notapplicable] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

notapplicable wrote:
The inmates can run this asylum just fine.

Get your own advice or go back to page... ... aw crap, it suddenly becomes practical. Mad


curt


Nov 7, 2013, 11:22 AM
Post #194 of 430 (2457 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18227

Re: [granite_grrl] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

The idea that a few abusive posters have driven away site traffic away from RC.com is really pretty absurd. John Gill, John Long, John Stannard, Dr. Kerwin Klein (all friends of mine) no longer post here--and it certainly isn't because of jt512 or me--or anyone similar.

The reason large numbers of experienced climbers have left RC.com is because the signal to noise ratio is so horribly low here, with nothing but "what shoe should I buy" threads and other similarly repetitive and banal offerings. There is simply very little content here anymore. I have many other friends who have migrated to Supertopo or other forums for precisely the same reason.

Curt


Partner happiegrrrl


Nov 7, 2013, 11:26 AM
Post #195 of 430 (2447 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4613

Re: [mojomonkey] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I agree that the images are too small, and remember when the Home Page was redone. Many complained that the featured image seemed stuffed up in the corner, too small, and surrounded by way too much text.


ncrockclimber


Nov 7, 2013, 11:49 AM
Post #196 of 430 (2428 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 273

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think that it is "pretty absurd" to think that the combative and rude tone set by a few "power users" with an extremely high post count has nothing to do with the decline in user participation on the forum. Just like you, I have friends that have left this site for the greener pastures of MP or ST. Like me, they left because they found the personality of this site to be unenjoyable.

It is pretty obvious that you and I are not going to agree on this. Jeff is going to steer this site in the direction that he thinks is best. I just wanted to present the other side to the position you are aggressively supporting.

FWIW, this is not meant as a personal attack against you. I climbed next to you at Atlantis this summer and found you to be polite and affable. I would welcome the opportunity to interact with you again in the real world.

Cheers.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 7, 2013, 11:56 AM
Post #197 of 430 (2413 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32059

Re: [curt] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

curt wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
I do not believe that the previous "management" or spam (a recent phenomenon) had anything to do with the decline in forum participation. I think that over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating. All the calls for leaving the forum alone sound like a recipe for continuing the status quo. That is something that does not appeal to me, and if forum participation is any indicator, something that only a small minority of users enjoy.

I'm curious who these few high post users are. Frankly, some of the most often complained about people (ie - in this thread it's been JT and Curt) are quite knowledgable and only add to the noise when someone picks a fight with them.

Actually, if you look through the list of users with 10,000 posts + you have a list of experienced and knowledgable climbers (with a few exceptions).

The idea that a few abusive posters have driven away site traffic away from RC.com is really pretty absurd. John Gill, John Long, John Stannard, Dr. Kerwin Klein (all friends of mine) no longer post here--and it certainly isn't because of jt512 or me--or anyone similar.

The reason large numbers of experienced climbers have left RC.com is because the signal to noise ratio is so horribly low here, with nothing but "what shoe should I buy" threads and other similarly repetitive and banal offerings. There is simply very little content here anymore. I have many other friends who have migrated to Supertopo or other forums for precisely the same reason.

Curt
What would you suggest, then, to maybe bring that traffic back? How could we as a (whole) community revive great discussion here?


lena_chita
Moderator

Nov 7, 2013, 12:13 PM
Post #198 of 430 (2397 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5587

Re: [mojomonkey] Hi--I'm the new RockClimbing.com owner--ask me anything [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (6 ratings)  
Can't Post

mojomonkey wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
There's nothing to post to on this site anymore.


Could that be because....
In reply to:
....over the last two years this place became increasingly more toxic and the "noise" generated by a few high-post count users drowned out the rest of the community and climbing content. As a result, the majority of users stopped participating.

Possible. Though what you consider noise may also be drawing in other users with tastes different than yours.

The problem may be more fundamental - why bother with RC.com? The site's staying power waned. I used to look at photos, check out the route database, maybe even read the articles posted. But I go elsewhere for those things now because I get a better experience. Years ago RC was the only route database for lots of areas I was interested in. The route DB on MP probably pulls in a lot of users now. It is much broader now and easier for me to find info on, or ask a question about, a specific route. For a question the best you can do here is a regional forum. Folks often are unable to figure out how to post a thread linked to a region and just dump it in general, so good luck finding that info again with the weak search here.

On MP I can look through the comments for a specific route. Maybe my question has been covered already. If not, maybe someone answers it and the info is easily found by others. And anyone can comment on the route without having to log an ascent and add it to the notes like here (and only 5 of those are show at a time).

So I start using MP for that info. Same with news items, or pictures*, or gear reviews. I found better sites for all of those. So what is left here? What does RC excel at to keep me checking in?


But how is this different from other climbing-related discussion forums? When I first joined RC, Facebook wasn't anywhere near what it is now. Deadpoint magazine didn't exist. In fact, most climbing-related news were just starting online versions. Whether it is gear reviews, or climbing videos, the wealth of information on the web now, compared to even 7-8 years ago, is staggering. And of course the websites that are dedicated to one particular aspect of it, such as climbing news or gear reviews, are donig a much more thorough job of it that RC.com does.

There are many ways that the informational/database side of RC.com could be improved, and I would dearly love to see those improvements. Whether it is the ability to quickly search for all photos of a specific route, or being able to sort a climbing log, or getting consensus route grades, it' would be awesome and welcome.

There are definitely updates to the front page and general appearance of the site that would be beneficial.

But forums are made by people. And you searching for a specific photos or browsing database for route comments doesn't contribute to the vibrancy of the forum. People do.

And people now have other means to connect. If RC were to go down right now, I would still like macherry's picture of a giant cat on Facebook, laugh at adateseman's backhoe accident, comment on drivel's blog, ask curt for trip beta, watch camhead's video, follow chossmonkey's competition circuit, and so on.


adatesman


Nov 7, 2013, 12:31 PM
Post #199 of 430 (2375 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479