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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Last night I was climbing a route in the gym and whipped when I missed a key crux dyno. As I fell, I had a brief moment to look down at the rope and I noticed that the bottom biner of my last draw was cross loaded. Well, I was airborne already, so there was nothing to do but enjoy the ride. I felt, more than heard, a rip as the rope came tight. When I stopped falling, I looked up to see that the biner had held, but the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana. The fall exposed six to eight feet of core!
The gym uses all fixed draws and all steel hardware, which probably saved me. But, this was still a reminder that, on a wall that never gets higher than 26', every fall comes close to the ground and no catch is truly soft. It's a mistake to think that any gym is automatically safer, when in fact, in some respects, gyms are more dangerous. Let's be careful in there.
(ASIDE: To add insult to injury... I got back on the route with a new rope and when I tried to clip that same draw, I found that rope fuzz had become jammed in the gate. I couldn't get the damn thing to open! :x)
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 6:32 PM
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j_ung and jdouble...
Bad night to be climbing indoors with a username beginning in "j". :P
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maldaly
Apr 7, 2005, 6:32 PM
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j_ung,
Glad you made it. Damned gyms are the most dangerous places on earth :-)
Mal
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mr.shortround
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Apr 7, 2005, 6:34 PM
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EDIT: Complete misunderstanding of what happened. Don't ya love internet forums? :D
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taualum23
Apr 7, 2005, 6:40 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: s I fell, I had a brief moment to look down at the rope and I noticed that the biner was cross loaded ummm, you were attached by a biner??? Why didn't you tie in???? In reply to: the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana You didn't even use a locking biner???? I think you need to get lessons from an experienced climber.....
I hope you are kidding, and I also hope you are wrong about what happened.
Jay was likely doing what is called "lead climbing" whereing one may clip into attached points in the wall. One does so with carabiners that are not lockers (usually), attached to "quickdraws". I imagine it is this carabiner that was crossloaded. I am guessing that he was indeed tied in.
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neuroshock
Apr 7, 2005, 6:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: s I fell, I had a brief moment to look down at the rope and I noticed that the biner was cross loaded ummm, you were attached by a biner??? Why didn't you tie in???? In reply to: the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana You didn't even use a locking biner???? edit: I just read your profile, 20 years climbing experience... what were you thinking????
do you use locking biners on your quickdraws?
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 6:43 PM
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Oh shit! My bad! It was the bottom biner of the last draw I had clipped. I wasn't attached with a single nonlocker. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've edited the post to make that more clear. Can you tell I write for a living? :oops:
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web_slave
Apr 7, 2005, 6:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: s I fell, I had a brief moment to look down at the rope and I noticed that the biner was cross loaded ummm, you were attached by a biner??? Why didn't you tie in???? In reply to: the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana You didn't even use a locking biner???? edit: I just read your profile, 20 years climbing experience... what were you thinking????
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
buddy, just stop talking/typing...
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bigjonnyc
Apr 7, 2005, 6:43 PM
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hey Mr.Shortround, I don't think you really read what j_ung's post was saying. I believe the cross loaded 'biner he was referring to was the last one he clipped into on the wall, as he said he noticed rope fuzz in it on his next attempt, in which case no one would have used a locking 'biner. Next time you had ought to read a post before laying down criticism on it.
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caughtinside
Apr 7, 2005, 6:44 PM
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Jay, please seek out a more experienced climber to tell you what you did wrong. :lol:
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taualum23
Apr 7, 2005, 6:45 PM
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Wow. We hit him 5 times for that one. Ouch. I'm not complaining, hell, I started it.
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nostalgia
Apr 7, 2005, 6:45 PM
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Deleted since I saw that j_ung had changed his post. I still stick by my mr.shortbus statement, though. His post was an ignorant and unnecessary attack.
-Joe
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 6:46 PM
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No, no... my fault entirely. Shortround is entirely justified in misreading the post in its original form. It's changed now and the point is: gyms! be careful!
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icarus_burned
Apr 7, 2005, 6:46 PM
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how did the biner get cross loaded? cant quite picture the scenario, how coud it have been prevented?
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edge
Apr 7, 2005, 6:47 PM
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Jay, you gymrat!!!
May your biners all be longitudinally loaded, and your falls all be soft like Charmin (the toilet paper, it's really quite pleasant...)
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cchildre
Apr 7, 2005, 6:49 PM
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The inital fear would be breaking the beaner, but I never considered ripping the sheath off or compromising the core. Great report with yet another reason to watch for crossloading.
I hope you arn't going to try to wash those pants you were wearing? LMAO
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slavetogravity
Apr 7, 2005, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: Last night I was climbing a route in the gym and whipped when I missed a key crux dyno. As I fell, I had a brief moment to look down at the rope and I noticed that the bottom biner of my last draw was cross loaded. Well, I was airborne already, so there was nothing to do but enjoy the ride. I felt, more than heard, a rip as the rope came tight. When I stopped falling, I looked up to see that the biner had held, but the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana. The fall exposed six to eight feet of core!
Wow! :shock: I once saw this exact thing happen at a climbing gym I use to frequent, thankfully I wasn't the guy doing the falling. I was just one of the slack jawed spectators on the floor watching as a climber plummet from the ceiling, stopping about 6 feet from the deck. The gym owner came running over freaking out after dam near having a heart attack.
On a side note, after relating my experience on RC.com. Another user called "Bullshit" assured me that what I supposedly saw was impossible. and that I was a liar. :evil: So thanks J-ung I now feel vindicated. Sorry it had to happen at the expense of you almost dying. :wink:
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maldaly
Apr 7, 2005, 6:56 PM
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History Note: When we brought in the first bent gate 'biners through Latok in '83 we didn't anticipate the core shot problem either. After a few complaints, manufacturers started making speed draws (thight loop at one end) and the little rubber thingys to prevent the 'biners from cross loading.
Safety Note: It's not a good idea to use tape to hold the 'biners in place. Who knows what the solvents are for the adhesives and how they react to nylon or spectra. The cheapest alternative is rubber bands but you have to replace them every few days.
Mal
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mr.shortround
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Apr 7, 2005, 6:56 PM
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Since I doubt that people will read my edit, I'm posting again.
Complete miscommunication of what happened :wink:
In reply to: if he was "tied in" with a biner, it wouldn't result in 6'-8' of core, now would it?
It's early, lay off me :)
Glad that you are ok!
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: Since I doubt that people will read my edit, I'm posting again. Complete miscommunication of what happened :wink: Glad that you are ok!
Thanks, bro. Definitely no hard feelings here. :)
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 7:05 PM
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In reply to: Safety Note: It's not a good idea to use tape to hold the 'biners in place. Who knows what the solvents are for the adhesives and how they react to nylon or spectra. The cheapest alternative is rubber bands but you have to replace them every few days. Mal
Thanks Mal, but our rope provider assures us that this won't be the case. We've been putting duck tape on load-bearing sections of rope for years since with no adverse effects.
But you're right, it's probably not a great idea to just stick random tape to random nylon.
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: The inital fear would be breaking the beaner, but I never considered ripping the sheath off or compromising the core. Great report with yet another reason to watch for crossloading. I hope you arn't going to try to wash those pants you were wearing? LMAO
As luck would have it... brown pants. :lol:
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cchildre
Apr 7, 2005, 7:18 PM
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Any pictures? That could be a great poster for "Why Crossloading is Bad"
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