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cintune
Apr 7, 2005, 8:10 PM
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In reply to: how did the biner get cross loaded? cant quite picture the scenario, how coud it have been prevented?
Did you mean backclipped maybe? No disrespect intended, but I'm also a little hard put to picture a crossloaded quickdraw.... Got any pics?
I once used an old rope to rig a z-drag with two tiblocs while cutting down a tree. When it fell it stripped about 15 feet of of sheath just like that. Not particularly relevant, I know, but I'd never seen a rope core before that. Gave me a whole new respect for rope, and a permanent mistrust of tiblocs.
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noell
Apr 7, 2005, 8:36 PM
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J_ung, you cats need to be careful down there in the Queen City!
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j_ung
Apr 7, 2005, 8:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: how did the biner get cross loaded? cant quite picture the scenario, how coud it have been prevented? Did you mean backclipped maybe? No disrespect intended, but I'm also a little hard put to picture a crossloaded quickdraw.... Got any pics? I once used an old rope to rig a z-drag with two tiblocs while cutting down a tree. When it fell it stripped about 15 feet of of sheath just like that. Not particularly relevant, I know, but I'd never seen a rope core before that. Gave me a whole new respect for rope, and a permanent mistrust of tiblocs.
I'm afraid I don't have any pics. The draws in question aren't terribly tight around the bottom biner and they don't have strings to keep the biners in place. If the rope dictates, the biner turns.
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icarus_burned
Apr 7, 2005, 9:06 PM
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so my new mental image is the biner gate facing down? loading across its width rather than length?
i assume it was a little bit of gate flutter during the fall that managed to snag the rope and cored it?
please correct if wrong
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jdouble
Apr 7, 2005, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: j_ung and jdouble... Bad night to be climbing indoors with a username beginning in "j". :P
That's it. I'm changing my user name. If I change it to 'curt' do I get a free bottle of single malt?
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j_ung
Apr 8, 2005, 2:42 AM
Post #33 of 43
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In reply to: so my new mental image is the biner gate facing down? loading across its width rather than length? i assume it was a little bit of gate flutter during the fall that managed to snag the rope and cored it? please correct if wrong
Yes on the width-wise loading, but no on the gate flutter. The edge that did it is on the inside of the gate. There was no need for the biner to open. The rope ran across the spot right where the gate and nose meet.
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dutyje
Apr 8, 2005, 3:01 AM
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Jay -
Before I forget... This exact same thing happened to Trey about 4 weeks ago. He was working a route in the cave and had clipped all the draws, but fell on his way to the shuts. He was out of gas and couldn't finish the route, so he asked to be lowered. What he hadn't noticed was that the biner on the last draw had become cross loaded. I didn't see it, either, as this was a traversing route and I was actually rather far from the draw.
Anyway, there was a ripping sound, and Trey had me immediately stop. He noticed the cross-loaded biner and relayed the information to me. He was able to get back on the wall and unweight the rope enough to re-orient the biner.
I finished lowering him and went to get a drink of water before returning to do the route myself. I found Trey with the rope coiled up and he pointed out a core shot (only about 4 inches long) about 5 feet from the end of the rope. We returned the rope to Phil, pointed out the problem, and told him how it happened.
Anyway, I'd be curious to know which draw you fell on for this to happen. I bet it's the same one (near the middle of the cave where the finish for the 5.9 jug-haul had been, and where you were setting routes on Tuesday). Happens once, maybe it's a freak accident, but twice in 4 weeks seems to be a problem. Probably time to replace that draw.
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icarus_burned
Apr 8, 2005, 12:30 PM
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ah thats cleared it up now,
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adnix
Apr 8, 2005, 12:39 PM
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In reply to: I felt, more than heard, a rip as the rope came tight. When I stopped falling, I looked up to see that the biner had held, but the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana. The fall exposed six to eight feet of core! |
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j_ung
Apr 8, 2005, 12:42 PM
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Joe,
It was a different draw, the second up, just over the entrance arch. But, they're all the same model of biner and draw. Maybe it's time to get draws with strings or different biners. I'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up!
Jay
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adnix
Apr 8, 2005, 12:45 PM
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In reply to: It's not a good idea to use tape to hold the 'biners in place. Who knows what the solvents are for the adhesives and how they react to nylon or spectra. The cheapest alternative is rubber bands but you have to replace them every few days. |
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michelleh
Apr 8, 2005, 1:20 PM
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We've also used O-rings with great success, they do perish, but much slower
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 8, 2005, 1:36 PM
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This is a good post to let everyone know that EVEN in a gym, you are responsible for inspecting equipment. Don't just assume that you are safe. I have noticed a couple times that the screwlinks on the bolt ends have been unscrewed. If you take a whipper on an open link, it can break or at the very least, bend. I came across one that wouldn't screw shut because someone fell on it.
Josh
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icarus_burned
Apr 8, 2005, 4:12 PM
Post #41 of 43
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In reply to: In reply to: I felt, more than heard, a rip as the rope came tight. When I stopped falling, I looked up to see that the biner had held, but the edges of the notch in the end of the gate had grabbed hold of the sheath and peeled the rope like a ripe banana. The fall exposed six to eight feet of core! According to the UIAA safcom this is a real threat but no matter what they tried, they couln't break more than 3 out of 11 strands or so. It's scary but nothing to worry really.
the scary part is cutting 20 ft off your rope, or even more terrifying, having to shell for a new one
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crimp2bfree
Apr 8, 2005, 7:30 PM
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This incident seems like a good supporting arguement for using wire gates. It probably has more to do with the particular model of biners being used, but there are no sharp edges on a wire gate. I had a related problem with a Petzl Attache biner (gold locking ones) attacking a rope sheath. I was in the gym and had gone up to fix something. I was rapping on two strands using a petzl reverso. I hadn't notice that the biner had flipped so the skinny end was up. I started to rap, and hear a tearing noise. The hinge pin on the gate was rubbing on the rope and fraying the sheath in a nice straight line down the rope. It didn't go to the core, but frayed about a 6ft section of the sheath. I ussually worry about rocks hurting the rope, but I guess biners can do just as much damage.
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j_ung
Apr 20, 2005, 3:59 PM
Post #43 of 43
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Word on the street is that the gym is going to move to draws that hold the bottom biner a little tighter.
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