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thorne
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Jul 20, 2005, 7:46 PM
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The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq Composite have both made new four year highs. :D
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nthusiastj
Jul 20, 2005, 7:47 PM
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So does that mean that they are about 50% of what they were 5 years ago?
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zozo
Jul 20, 2005, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: So does that mean that they are about 50% of what they were 5 years ago?
Thats called a success by current administration standards.
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thorne
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Jul 20, 2005, 8:06 PM
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In reply to: So does that mean that they are about 50% of what they were 5 years ago?
The S&P 500 has rallied about 60% off its October 2002 lows. It's about 20% off its all time highs.
The Nasdaq is closer to 1/3 of its 2000 highs. In case you didn't already know it, the Nasdaq rally of the late '90s was the ultimate ponzi scheme of all time.
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caughtinside
Jul 20, 2005, 8:23 PM
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Speaking of which, my roommate told me about a new ponzi scheme that nearly victimized his cousin. You pay money to be a 'travel agent.' When you sign up X number of friends, you get the big payout.
It also requires you to pay a monthly fee until you get the payout, like $50 a month. In exchange, you get 'travel agent discounts' on flights/cars/hotels.
There was a big ponzi scheme called 'women helping women' out here in Sacramento a couple years ago, and there was one going on in college when I was at Boulder.
The oldest schemes seem to be the best schemes!
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bobd1953
Jul 20, 2005, 9:32 PM
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So how does that help the average American?
Maybe the companies and investors making money on the stock market will help pay-off the huge debt (personal and federal) that is facing this country? :o
From MW Hodges: But, in the last several decades total debt has zoomed up, up and away - - growing much faster than national income. It has now reached $40.1 Trillion ($30.8 trillion private household/business/financial sector debt PLUS $9.3 trillion federal, state and local government debt). Here's some highlights:
Last year's total debt of $40.1 Trillion was 9 times higher than the $4.6 Trillion debt in 1957 (both measured in inflation-adjusted 2004 dollars).
Last year's total debt increased $3 trillion (up 8.2%). Federal government debt (incl. added debt owed trust funds) increased $595 billion (8.5%), household debt increased $1.03 Trillion (up 11.2%), business debt increased $421 billion (6%), state & local government debt increased $116 billion (up 7.4%), domestic financial sector debt increased $714 billion (7.3%), and other foreign debt was up 10%.
Last year's total debt per person was $136,479 (up $7,900 over last year's $128,560); this compares to $27,084 in 1957 (both measured in inflation-adjusted 2004 dollars). That's a debt excess of $109,395 per man, woman and child.
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traddad
Jul 20, 2005, 10:18 PM
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Yea economy! I haven't gotten a raise in 5 years (thanks to our repugnican legislature), my property taxes just went up another $100 per month due to the "housing bubble" and gas is 40 cents per gallon more than it was this time last year....and I drive 100 miles per day.
Yea economy. Go. Rah. Only the rich fucks are doing well.
At least there's Two Buck Chuck.
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bobd1953
Jul 20, 2005, 10:35 PM
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The rich are getting richer, the middle class is getting wipe out, personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low.
WTF are talking about.
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cloudbreak
Jul 20, 2005, 11:27 PM
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In reply to: ....personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low.
That can also be attributed to stupidity!
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traddad
Jul 20, 2005, 11:47 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ....personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low. That can also be attributed to stupidity!
Or unaffordable housing prices. I pitty any middle class Joe (or Josephine) who didn't get in on the front side of the bubble. If I were to buy a house today I couldn't afford it. The appraiser just left 5 min. ago. and the value of my house increased 100% over the last two years. Good investment, but it also means my taxes keep going up on what our republican legislature wants to essentially be a fixed income.
We don't own a plasma TV. No pool, no jacuzzi, no boat, 20 year old stereo.... I drive a 16 year old car. My daughter wears her cousin's hand-me-downs. Our bed still sits on the floor because I can't afford the lumber to build the frame (OK, OK...so I want quarter sawn oak...) Hey, my wife's a college prof and I'm an ecologist....we should be doing better.
I hear Ken Ley's not doing well, either.
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one900johnnyk
Jul 21, 2005, 1:39 AM
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yeah awesome rebound at the end there but i'm not happy unless the long end of the curve is rising.. speaking of the us economy, that is some potentially scary shit, man
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one900johnnyk
Jul 21, 2005, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ....personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low. That can also be attributed to stupidity! Or unaffordable housing prices. I pitty any middle class Joe (or Josephine) who didn't get in on the front side of the bubble. If I were to buy a house today I couldn't afford it. The appraiser just left 5 min. ago. and the value of my house increased 100% over the last two years. Good investment, but it also means my taxes keep going up on what our republican legislature wants to essentially be a fixed income. We don't own a plasma TV. No pool, no jacuzzi, no boat, 20 year old stereo.... I drive a 16 year old car. My daughter wears her cousin's hand-me-downs. Our bed still sits on the floor because I can't afford the lumber to build the frame (OK, OK...so I want quarter sawn oak...) Hey, my wife's a college prof and I'm an ecologist....we should be doing better. I hear Ken Ley's not doing well, either. |
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reno
Jul 21, 2005, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ....personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low. That can also be attributed to stupidity!
Oh, no... we can't do that. To say so would imply that people should be accountable for their own actions and that just won't do.
[/sarcasm]
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curt
Jul 21, 2005, 2:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: ....personal debt is at a all time high and personal savings at a all-time low. That can also be attributed to stupidity! Or unaffordable housing prices. I pitty any middle class Joe (or Josephine) who didn't get in on the front side of the bubble. If I were to buy a house today I couldn't afford it. The appraiser just left 5 min. ago. and the value of my house increased 100% over the last two years. Good investment, but it also means my taxes keep going up on what our republican legislature wants to essentially be a fixed income. We don't own a plasma TV. No pool, no jacuzzi, no boat, 20 year old stereo.... I drive a 16 year old car. My daughter wears her cousin's hand-me-downs. Our bed still sits on the floor because I can't afford the lumber to build the frame (OK, OK...so I want quarter sawn oak...) Hey, my wife's a college prof and I'm an ecologist....we should be doing better. I hear Ken Ley's not doing well, either.
Yeah, but Ken Lay (like Bernie Ebbers) will likely get a nice bed provided him by taxpayers. :lol:
Curt
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thorne
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Jul 21, 2005, 11:56 AM
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In reply to: So how does that help the average American? Maybe the companies and investors making money on the stock market will help pay-off the huge debt (personal and federal) that is facing this country? :o From MW Hodges: But, in the last several decades total debt has zoomed up, up and away - - growing much faster than national income. It has now reached $40.1 Trillion ($30.8 trillion private household/business/financial sector debt PLUS $9.3 trillion federal, state and local government debt). Here's some highlights: Last year's total debt of $40.1 Trillion was 9 times higher than the $4.6 Trillion debt in 1957 (both measured in inflation-adjusted 2004 dollars). Last year's total debt increased $3 trillion (up 8.2%). Federal government debt (incl. added debt owed trust funds) increased $595 billion (8.5%), household debt increased $1.03 Trillion (up 11.2%), business debt increased $421 billion (6%), state & local government debt increased $116 billion (up 7.4%), domestic financial sector debt increased $714 billion (7.3%), and other foreign debt was up 10%. Last year's total debt per person was $136,479 (up $7,900 over last year's $128,560); this compares to $27,084 in 1957 (both measured in inflation-adjusted 2004 dollars). That's a debt excess of $109,395 per man, woman and child.
Them's some big ol' numbers you got there, Bob. Do you have any idea what they mean?
Flaming aside, I'm amazed at how widespread the mindset of victimology has gotten in this country. I start a post that basically says "our economy is doing well and I think that's a good thing", and a bunch of you just want to whine about how you're getting screwed, that this is beneficial only to the wealthy, that we're on a sinking ship.... boo hoo hoo :cry: :cry: :cry:
If you can take your blinders off you might see that America is still the land of opportunity. It's what you make of it. :wink:
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bobd1953
Jul 21, 2005, 2:51 PM
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Them's some big ol' numbers you got there, Bob. Do you have any idea what they mean?
Pretty easy to understand, even for you. I see by using "big ol" you are showing your social background.
Flaming aside, I'm amazed at how widespread the mindset of victimology has gotten in this country. I start a post that basically says "our economy is doing well and I think that's a good thing", and a bunch of you just want to whine about how you're getting screwed, that this is beneficial only to the wealthy, that we're on a sinking ship.... boo hoo hoo.
I am not a victim or do I feel like one. I have a great family and live the life I want to live. I travel outside of the country a fair amount and tend to think more global than most people on this site...especially the right-wingers who think "the world revolves America". America is sinking in a lot of ways. Our failing education system, lack of national health care system, the huge separation of the classes and an almost unpayable debt (personal and federal) will be the downfall of this nation.
If you can take your blinders off you might see that America is still the land of opportunity. It's what you make of it.
Take your own advice on this one. Pull your fecking head out of the sand.
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thorne
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Jul 21, 2005, 3:11 PM
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In reply to: Them's some big ol' numbers you got there, Bob. Do you have any idea what they mean? Pretty easy to understand, even for you. I see by using "big ol" you are showing your social background.
No chance of putting one over on you.
In reply to: I travel outside of the country a fair amount and tend to think more global than most people on this site...especially the right-wingers who think "the world revolves America".
I think your confusing this sentiment with one of "act in America's best interests".
In reply to: America is sinking in a lot of ways.... lack of national health care system.... and an almost unpayable debt (personal and federal) will be the downfall of this nation.
How would a national health care system affect federal costs?
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bobd1953
Jul 21, 2005, 3:19 PM
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In reply to: How would a national health care system affect federal costs?
How does not having one effect costs/productivity on a national level??
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thorne
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Jul 21, 2005, 3:23 PM
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Nice dodge. :wink:
You previously quote MW Hodges, regarding government debt. Have you actually checked out his site? Good stuff!!! He says two initiatives are responsible for the era of big government - The New Deal and The Great Society.
He has some choice words on national healthcare.
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tradman
Jul 21, 2005, 3:27 PM
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Well, here's a bit of news for the economy. China's revalued its currency by 2.2%
Should slow down their exports and boost domestic production in the US and other countries huh?
What do you guys think? (oh and if you think this is off-topic just say and I'll start a new thread).
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reno
Jul 21, 2005, 3:38 PM
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In reply to: I am not a victim or do I feel like one. I have a great family and live the life I want to live. I travel outside of the country a fair amount and tend to think more global than most people on this site...especially the right-wingers who think "the world revolves America". America is sinking in a lot of ways. Our failing education system, lack of national health care system, the huge separation of the classes and an almost unpayable debt (personal and federal) will be the downfall of this nation.
Random thoughts....
~ Not all right wingers think the world revolves around America.
~ You don't want National Healthcare, trust me. It's not working for anyone else, and there's nothing our government does efficiently now, so why should we trust them with making our healthcare decisions for us?
~ You think providing "free" healthcare to everyone will improve our debt?
~ Seperation of classes... why is this a bad thing? Why is it so bad to reward those that work harder than the next guy?
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bobd1953
Jul 21, 2005, 4:11 PM
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Random thoughts....
~ Not all right wingers think the world revolves around America.
I didn't say all!
~ You don't want National Healthcare, trust me. It's not working for anyone else, and there's nothing our government does efficiently now, so why should we trust them with making our healthcare decisions for us?
Yes it is. We are the only "first world country without it".
~You think providing "free" healthcare to everyone will improve our debt?
Nothing is free. i pay taxes and a fair amount. I rather see my taxes go to healthcare and education than to Haliburton and lobbyists in DC.
~ Seperation of classes... why is this a bad thing? Why is it so bad to reward those that work harder than the next guy?
That the problem Reno...the rich are getting richer by stealing and not working harder.
We lose the middle class (blue collar) in the country and we are toast.
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