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granitegod
Nov 29, 2005, 10:28 PM
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On 11/27 a Utah climber visiting J-tree fell while leading a route and decked from about 12 - 15 feet. He cracked his helmet on the ground, but was fortunate enough to walk away from the accident. He drove home to Salt Lake, and the next day (Monday), suffering some pain in his neck and back, went to the ER because he thought he'd better get checked out.
As it turns out, he sufferred a fracture of his 6th Cervical Vertebrae. Fortunatley, it should heal without surgery.
Although he told me the name of the route, I can't recall it now. I did not inquire as to the reason why he decked. But from seeing his helmet in the ER, he quite possibly would have sufferred a life-threatening head injury had he NOT been wearing the hard hat.
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majid_sabet
Dec 1, 2005, 8:36 AM
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In reply to: On 11/27 a Utah climber visiting J-tree fell while leading a route and decked from about 12 - 15 feet. He cracked his helmet on the ground, but was fortunate enough to walk away from the accident. He drove home to Salt Lake, and the next day (Monday), suffering some pain in his neck and back, went to the ER because he thought he'd better get checked out. As it turns out, he sufferred a fracture of his 6th Cervical Vertebrae. Fortunatley, it should heal without surgery. Although he told me the name of the route, I can't recall it now. I did not inquire as to the reason why he decked. But from seeing his helmet in the ER, he quite possibly would have sufferred a life-threatening head injury had he NOT been wearing the hard hat.
You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident .
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corpse
Dec 1, 2005, 1:37 PM
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In reply to: You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident .
Although it may not have been wise to skip a trip to the doc, why is his partner ignorant for it?? It's not his partners job to force him to go the doc.
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uk_bound
Dec 1, 2005, 1:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident . Although it may not have been wise to skip a trip to the doc, why is his partner ignorant for it?? It's not his partners job to force him to go the doc.
With a possible head injury he should have at least been strongly persuaded to seek medical attention. The fact that he chose (poorly) not to be checked out after the fall may itself be a sign of head trauma.
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tgreene
Dec 1, 2005, 2:44 PM
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With the adrenaline creating a "euphoric buzz", it would be easy to dismiss the potential seriouness of an injury.
Also, most people that I know (myself included) would much rather seek medical attention at a hospital in your own community, rather than in an isolated area, far away from family & friends.
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shakylegs
Dec 1, 2005, 3:09 PM
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In reply to: You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident .
Pot, meet kettle.
Were you there? Did you witness the belayer not try to convince the climber to go to the hospital.
I can normally ignore your gleefully morbid accident postings, but where do you come off deciding that someone was at fault without knowing any of the details?
Edit: Le sigh, edited.
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climbs4fun
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Dec 1, 2005, 3:24 PM
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Guys, if you want to discuss the accident, then please do so. But leave the personal attacks out of it.
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brianinslc
Dec 1, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident .
Way out of line.
He didn't have a head injury (and had none of the symptoms of one). Pretty saavy character.
Fractured C6 and C7.
Glad he's ok, although, will be sportin' a collar for a couple of months...
Message was, wear a helmit and consider that climbs may change (in this case, perhaps due to a hold busting off unbeknownst to them, and prior to their attempt of the route).
Whew...glad he's ok. Maybe he'll offer to let someone post up the story (I'll ask).
-Brian in SLC
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trenchdigger
Dec 1, 2005, 5:25 PM
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In reply to: With the adrenaline creating a "euphoric buzz", it would be easy to dismiss the potential seriouness of an injury. Also, most people that I know ( myself included) would much rather seek medical attention at a hospital in your own community, rather than in an isolated area, far away from family & friends.
On the other hand, if I fell, hitting my head hard enough to crack my helmet, then complained of back and neck pain, I would hope my friends would keep me from further injuring myself by moving around. Upper cervical spine injuries can be fatal if the spine is unstable, moves, and damages the spinal cord. Lower c-spine injuries (like this) will just paralyze you if the cord is damaged.
In this case, there was an obvious mechanism for spine injury, as well as pain in the spine. Driving all the way home after the incident was likely not the best decision. Glad everything worked out for the best for your friend though.
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brianinslc
Dec 1, 2005, 9:34 PM
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Story with a picture of the helmit here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=125172&f=0&b=0
Hopefully won't be any long term effects on his homebrewing talent...
Cheers,
Brian in SLC
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granitegod
Dec 1, 2005, 10:22 PM
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Thanks, Brian. Picture's worth a thousand words.
Maybe he can post a pic of his CT scan.
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guangzhou
Dec 2, 2005, 12:25 AM
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The tone on this site tends to be very condicending in general. I agree that attacking the belayers was wrong, but it almost expected at rcc.
With that said, I am glad to hear the climber will be alright.
It's also nice to have proof that helmet can and do save lives.
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cam
Dec 2, 2005, 12:53 AM
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Dude, why are you yelling?
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grk10vq
Dec 2, 2005, 1:28 AM
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In reply to: You should ask his ignorant partner to drop us a note and let us know why they did not check in the hospital after the accident .
you're an idiot.
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grovehunter
Dec 2, 2005, 1:52 AM
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It is good to hear that the guy is ok. I checked into helmets today and I'm going to get one. I hope the climber fully recovers and soon.
This Guy Majid_Sabet is arrogant and doesn't know what he is talking about most of the time! He wasn't there, didn't know any of the climbers and yet, he makes a self rightious comment like that. It is to be expected of him, and he shows his ignorance everytime he posts. Don't let him ruffle your feathers, he just likes to hear himself talk.....
Peace,
Chuck
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majid_sabet
Dec 2, 2005, 5:32 AM
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IF leader and his partner took off for 10+ hours of driving thru desert and he started to loose his level of consciousness and died because of some clogged blood vessels on his brain or became paralyzed due to some known problems in his back , then you guys were okay with it right ?
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grzybowe
Dec 2, 2005, 6:06 AM
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I was right next to this guy belaying my partner on middle peyote crack. I don't know why he chose to lead left peyote crack 5.10 since his partner couldnt get off the ground when he attempted middle crack which is easier. And judging by the grunting (yelling) that was going on just before the fall, it is obvious that this climber was in a little over his head. We looked at this climb and decided not to do it because of its incredibly bouldery start and the lack of pro; I could only find one placement, a number 3 BD stopper, I'm not confident it would have held a fall and, it was only like 7 or 8 feet off the ground so it probably wouldn't do much for you anyhow. Sucks that he had a few cracked vertebre, damn good thing he had a helmet on... maybe next time he will bring a belay as good as the helmet.
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majid_sabet
Dec 2, 2005, 6:12 AM
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In reply to: I was right next to this guy belaying my partner on middle peyote crack. I don't know why he chose to lead left peyote crack 5.10 since his partner couldnt get off the ground when he attempted middle crack which is easier. And judging by the grunting (yelling) that was going on just before the fall, it is obvious that this climber was in a little over his head. We looked at this climb and decided not to do it because of its incredibly bouldery start and the lack of pro; I could only find one placement, a number 3 BD stopper, I'm not confident it would have held a fall and, it was only like 7 or 8 feet off the ground so it probably wouldn't do much for you anyhow. Sucks that he had a few cracked vertebre, damn good thing he had a helmet on... maybe next time he will bring a belay as good as the helmet.
Thanks for the update info
I post this photo some time ago, it is worth looking at
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photo/photo_show.php?list_sort=highest_first&list_keyword=&list_category=0&list_filter_user_id=majid_sabet&list_comment_user_id=&list_per_page=25&list_album_id=&list_CountryStateID=&list_AreaID=&list_SectionID=&list_mode=approved&list_period=None&list_start=4&id=62883
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colkurtz
Dec 2, 2005, 7:35 AM
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uh yeh. driving after an accident = dangerous to others. people would get flamed for drunk driving. why not this?
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guangzhou
Dec 2, 2005, 7:57 AM
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Actually, I don't really blame the belayer or the guy who fell for not going to the Hospital sooner. I can think of a few times when I fell a long way and avoided the hospital visit. I am glad he eventually went, but I don't fault him for not going earlier.
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scared_silly
Dec 2, 2005, 7:10 PM
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A follow up for folks to chew on while second and third guessing ...
My partner was not planning on climbing the route he was just belaying. He was doing what he was suppose to be doing - belaying. My position was such that it would be very difficult for anyone to decide whether to belay or spot. He was also quite responsive to the situtation at hand once I fell. I am very comforatable climbing with him. He may not climb as hard as he used to but he is a damn compendent climber. Otherwise I would not be climbing with him for nearly 20 years. (And given some of the rantings from climbers in various new groups I seriously doubt that they have the maturity to truly be a descent climbing partner. But I digress).
I did not go to the local hospital to checked out for the following reasons:
1. The fall did not even knock the wind out of me.
2. There was no head slam - never saw stars, no diziness, nothing.
3. There was very little pain. I have taken zero pain meds just few Tylenol. And nothing since Wednesday am.
I went in the next day just to be sure everything was okay. Many would not and brush this off.
Now if you want a comparison, my wife who works in an ICU took care of a guy who was playing in T-Day family football game. He got tackled kinda hard but did not think anything about it until the next day. He went in to get checked out and is now sporting a bolted on halo. Kinda makes you wonder how many people who get injured never go see a doc.
As for climb. Now that this climb has been mentioned seems that perhaps the rating is a bit of sand bag. Especially because of the difficult gear. However, the gear I placed I felt comfortable with given its supposed grade of 5.10. Had I not felt good with the gear I would have been up there. That was my judgement call - no one else can make that. Yeah it pulled out when I fell but as I mentioned my ST post given where I was I am not sure it would have helped had it held. Perhaps it held long enough that the rope took some of the load as I fell. Not sure.
And yup I was doing a bit of grunting while on the climb. Lots of people do this in all types of activities. Ever watch Stefi Graf play tennis? But grunting does not mean over your head as some assume. It typically means you are working hard. I remember one climbing partner breathing so hard and grunting so much on one climb by the time she finished the pitch I needed a cigarette.
To me when someone is over their head they do not know what they are doing. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was about a move away from a good foothold that I felt would allow me to get into a stance to safety place gear. I left the ground with the gear I needed and had it ready.
As for the fall. I am not sure what caused it - I just popped off. I would venture a guess that my hand came off because I fell away from the climb rather down it. But it does not matter. I fell.
So there you have it. I will let those who have magical butts (hindsight) carry on.
ARS
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veganboyjosh
Dec 2, 2005, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: A follow up for folks to chew on while second and third guessing ...
thanks for that.
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granitegod
Dec 5, 2005, 1:56 AM
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Maybe he didn't go to the hospital right away because he's not a sissy like all you second-guessing-wankers!!
The point of this forum is to learn from others' mistakes, not to criticise them. Falls happen, gear pulls. Whether you're near your limit, or two grades below it....it can happen to you.
The reason I posted an "incomplete" account of this accident, and didn't bother to ask Scared Silly all the details about his accident when I met him was that to me, to you, to anyone else, exactly why he fell, how hard the route was, etc....DO NOT MATTER. The whole point was simple:
WEAR YOUR FREAKIN' HELMET!!!
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trenchdigger
Dec 5, 2005, 4:57 PM
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In reply to: Maybe he didn't go to the hospital right away because he's not a sissy like all you second-guessing-wankers!!
So I suppose you're going to tell your friend you won't be seen in public with him if he's got his C-collar on. After all, a real man wouldn't need a stupid little neck brace. :roll:
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climbingnurse
Dec 5, 2005, 5:29 PM
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As a follow up to GraniteGod's advice to wear a helmet I'd like to add another piece of advice:
-Take a wilderness first aid class and learn to clear a spine. Had someone on site done a simple spinal exam they probably would have realized that something was amiss and had this guy taken to the local ER to get checked out.
But for those who are accusing people they have never met of ignorance, as someone else already said: pot, meet kettle.
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