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bdplayer
Feb 15, 2007, 8:20 PM
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Recently, a friend on toprope managed to break her ankle. Another friend hyper-extended his knee on the path down from the crag. This isn't a safe sport for sure, but it does beat a lot of other things we could do. But something has been bothering me.
You see, I'm a trad climber. I grew up with the mindset of never falling. However, if you did, you must trust your gear and placements from your (read:long experience) knowledge of the rock and gear in that particular rock. We minimize the danger as much as we can, but it's still not safe. Now, in several threads, I see many people talking about falling, getting your head on your shoulders, getting in the game, yadda yadda. Nothing wrong with that, but we don't call this little passion of ours rock falling.
We call it rock climbing. Let's go live life all the way.
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deschamps1000
Feb 15, 2007, 8:27 PM
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Well placed trad gear does not fail. The old-school idea of not falling stems from the days of sketchy gear and ropes. Modern equipment allows competent individuals to push their limits without too much concern about falling.
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the_climber
Feb 15, 2007, 8:41 PM
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deschamps1000 wrote: Well placed trad gear does not fail.
In good rock with good placement and a so long as the situation doesn't exceed the limitationg of the gear.
deschamps1000 wrote: The old-school idea of not falling stems from the days of sketchy gear and ropes.
And yet the mindset of not falling is still appicable in many many situations. In some regions many of the climds are either featured in such a way, or have rock of the quality that you wouln't want to be 'testing' you're gear on. Canadian Rockies limestone comes to mind...
deschamps1000 wrote: Modern equipment allows competent individuals to push their limits without too much concern about falling.
Add on "good rock that accept great placements" to that, and I would agree.
Too many people forget the limitations of their gear, ignor the limitations of rock quality, and think they are an experianced Trad climber after one summer of placing gear.
Falling on trad gear is something that most shouldn't make a habit of. And as always... "it depends."
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zeke_sf
Feb 15, 2007, 8:43 PM
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This thread topic is like herpes lately. Where's the eyeroll emoticon, huh?
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Dillbag
Feb 15, 2007, 8:52 PM
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That's all I've got to say about that!
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dingus
Feb 15, 2007, 8:58 PM
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I think you should open a separate thread on this important topic.
DMT
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wonderwoman
Feb 15, 2007, 8:59 PM
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bdplayer wrote: We call it rock climbing. Let's go live life all the way.
You mean we shouldn't replace the term 'belay' with the word 'drop'?
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zeke_sf
Feb 15, 2007, 9:05 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: bdplayer wrote: We call it rock climbing. Let's go live life all the way. You mean we shouldn't replace the term 'belay' with the word 'drop'?
Duh, "belay" or "drop" is so out  . Not falling is in  . As long as we're not falling why increase that chance with heavy gear and climbing "buddies"?
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wonderwoman
Feb 15, 2007, 9:11 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: wonderwoman wrote: bdplayer wrote: We call it rock climbing. Let's go live life all the way. You mean we shouldn't replace the term 'belay' with the word 'drop'? Duh, "belay" or "drop" is so out . Not falling is in . As long as we're not falling why increase that chance with heavy gear and climbing "buddies"?
I getcha. You're saying I should skip the gear, ditch the belay (who might just go ahead and drop me anyway) and go free-solo something that I won't fall on.
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squamishdirtbag
Feb 15, 2007, 9:16 PM
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You cannot know your limits without falling, modern times people "The leader must FALL"
Or you ain't gonna get any better and won't get as much of of the game.
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bdplayer
Feb 15, 2007, 9:42 PM
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squamishdirtbag wrote: You cannot know your limits without falling, modern times people "The leader must FALL" Or you ain't gonna get any better and won't get as much of of the game.
F#$@ it. Let's go free soloing. 5.3 anyone?
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sevrdhed
Feb 15, 2007, 9:51 PM
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Do you really think you have to get better to get more out of rock climbing?
Honestly curious. I personally think you can get just as much out of climbing if you're climbing 5.8's as 5.12s. I could probably get to be a better sport climber, for example, if I were to go out and take a bunch of falls and get more comfortable leading stuff at or near my limit.
But honestly, it doesn't sound like that much fun. I'd rather just cruise up a bunch of stuff that's easy and enjoyable for me.
Sure, you could say that if you can only climb 5.5, that you would get more out of climbing because you'd be able to get on more routes. But, in that case, I don't think it would take more falling to get better, I think it would just take more climbing.
Of course, it's some peoples thing to climb as hard as possible all the time. That's, IMO, why we see so many training technique questions, because people want to train so that they can get better. For people who's sole purpose in climbing is to climb as hard as possible, then I could possibly see your quote being true.
But for the vast majority of us that just like to go out and climb around on rocks... I don't think that getting better necessarily means we'll get more.
Anyway, just curious.
(This post was edited by sevrdhed on Feb 15, 2007, 9:52 PM)
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majid_sabet
Feb 15, 2007, 9:52 PM
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I am going to watch this one, let me get some popcorn ready.
Dingus
you want some ?
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the_climber
Feb 15, 2007, 9:55 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: I am going to watch this one, let me get some popcorn ready. Dingus you want some ?
Majid, this is the funniest thing I have seen you post.
Pass the popcorn would ya buddy!
Oh, LMAO! Phew!
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granite_grrl
Feb 16, 2007, 2:53 PM
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Falling is part of climbing. You may not enjoy it, you may do everything in your power to avoid it, but you might as well accept it.
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bdplayer
Feb 16, 2007, 3:48 PM
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Well, falling can be fun I suppose, but it has to be in the right context. I never hear of someone "climbing" in love, but I've definitely heard of people "falling" in love. Wonder if that tells anything about the feeling I get when a gorgeous girl walks in the room.... It's all about your focus.
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granite_grrl
Feb 16, 2007, 3:55 PM
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bdplayer wrote: Well, falling can be fun I suppose, but it has to be in the right context. I never hear of someone "climbing" in love, but I've definitely heard of people "falling" in love. Wonder if that tells anything about the feeling I get when a gorgeous girl walks in the room.... It's all about your focus.
I met my husband while we were travelling and climbing. I'd almost way we climbed in love....well at least we do now!
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dingus
Feb 16, 2007, 4:01 PM
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Only if its buttered major sabbet. I can't stand that low fat fake shit that gives the sons of immigrants lung cancer at the Jiffy Pop industrial popping corn complex near Dayton Ohio.
DMT
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breaksnclimbs
Feb 16, 2007, 4:38 PM
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Don't necessarily "LIKE" falling however, what I do enjoy is climbing Soooooo close to my absolute limit that a good fall is just as likely as sending. You'll never find out your true limits by edging up to them, you gotts to cross the line sometimes to see where you are.
my .02
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healyje
Feb 16, 2007, 4:49 PM
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bdplayer wrote: You see, I'm a trad climber. I grew up with the mindset of never falling.
As a trad climber from the days before cams I'm continually amazed when I see and hear this repeated again and again and thank god we didn't learn in an established climbing area. This notion of of "never falling" is, fortunately, not one we ever fell prey to. We winged off shit on a regular basis with just nuts and hexs - stacked nuts and hexs quite often. I understand a few interesting folks adopting 'I will not fall' as a purist philosophy - but the endless promulgation and inculcation of the 'must never fall' dogma from generation to generation - now enhanced by folks coming up on bolts and basically unfamiliar with gear - seems like close to a tragedy to me...
(This post was edited by healyje on Feb 16, 2007, 4:50 PM)
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