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johnr9q
Sep 22, 2002, 3:04 PM
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Does anyone know what type of pro pulled on the accident on the Line yesterday. A woman was leading and fell and after 2 pieces pulled she hit the deck. Ankle injury, elbow and concussion. My concern is that she was using cams to protect when the first piece of pro that can be placed is an excellent nut that I doubt would pull. Maybe new leaders are relying too much on cams and not considering nuts.
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micronut
Sep 22, 2002, 3:14 PM
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Nothing inspires confidence more than a nuke proof nut.
I've seen too many "new leaders" placing bad gear!! In my book, if you are onsighting 5.9 trad. you are a pretty solid climber, and SHOULD be solid with gear. I followed literally 100 pitches cleaning good gear before I lead anything above 5.6. I could lead 10- sport at the time, but stayed "down" and payed my dues.
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billcoe_
Sep 22, 2002, 5:02 PM
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She fell and pulled 2 pieces on THE LINE. Damn, you sure she wasn't on something else, that seems not possible and the line is relatively easy and has good pro?
Probably didn't have a helmet either, I keep thinking of these stories as a reminder for me to buy one for Rock Climbing. I'm finally going to get one for skiing. Last season, after screaming down a black diamond in full view of the chairlift (in perfect form) I hit ice on the lower easy section and slid headfirst for what seemed like over a 1/4 mile. At one point I had my ski pole tip cranked into the ice in an attempt at self arrect but to no avail as it just scratched on the ice. Had any trees been in the fall line there, well...can you say Sonny Bono? And this year I have 2 new pairs of skiis (Volant T3 Power and Atomic 9.20 race carves) so I expect to be faster. This could get real ugly real fast. With my daughter working up there, I'll be up there more than ever too.
Micronut: you and I are in total agreement.
Regards to all:
Bill
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dune
Sep 22, 2002, 5:58 PM
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It doesn't suprise me. The Line is not that easy to protect on the first 20 or so feet, yet the pro is basic the rest of the way. I should know, I've done it like 6 times. And it was my first 5.9 trad lead too, I remember it well. There is a stopper placement at like 15 feet up but if your nutcraft isn't up to snuff you could be looking at a real runout. Beware.
I agree to what micronut says about taking it slowly up the grades. Make sure you're VERY solid at pro before you push your limits. Your ass is on the line... literally.
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joebuzz
Sep 22, 2002, 6:40 PM
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Being originally from Tahoe, The Leap is my old home wall. Does anyone know her name?
Dune is correct in that the first "Bomber" piece is almost 20ft. up.
Thank God she wasn't seriously injured.
To all you new leaders, listen to micronut. Don't be in a hurry to learn to place gear, it is an art form and it takes time. Follow, Follow, Follow. I don't mean to preach but, I cratered a bunch of years ago while "learning to place gear". It was SERIOUS!, but luckily I'm still climbing
today.
To the injured woman; I don't just assume that you are a beginner, anything could have happened. I/We at Rc.c wish you all the best.
Be careful out there, Buzz
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joebuzz
Sep 22, 2002, 6:46 PM
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One more thing. Newbies; try aiding your first trad leads. Even at 5.6(or whatever), if you have to stand on every piece you place, you'll learn quickly what works and what doesn't.
Buzz
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dsafanda
Sep 22, 2002, 7:29 PM
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Careful with that adice. Aid climbing is indeed a great way to learn how to place gear but be sure to do it somewhere other than an extremely poplular moderate free route. I don't want to see people aiding up The Line.
Best wishes to the injured climber. I hope she gets back on the sharp end soon. I've climbed The Line atleast a half dozen times and recall what others have... it's 10-20 feet to your first gear placement and it's one that might be tricky for a novice leader.
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joebuzz
Sep 22, 2002, 7:59 PM
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Thank You. Point well taken. Use common sense where, when and how you climb. By the way, I have aided "The Line", of course it was in January so there really wasn't anyone waiting to get on it.
I hope everyone understands that I mean "clean aid", no one should be out there hammering on established routes.
Cheers, Buzz
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dsafanda
Sep 22, 2002, 8:25 PM
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I really don't think anyone should be clean aiding The Line during the summer either. The Leap is a very popualr place and The Line is one of if not the most popular climbs there. It's a free climb! No one should have to wait 6 hours while someone who is unable to lead it aid climbs the route. I think it's just a matter of style and condideration for others don't you? I would be royaly pissed off I got to the base of The Line one Saturday morning to find two in-experienced climbers pulling out aiders and jumars.
That said...aid climbing it in January is a completely different story. Sounds cold.
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gunked
Sep 24, 2002, 12:51 AM
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You too!?
I clean-aided the line during a blizzard a few winters ago. Strangely enough, there was nobody else around but us three ice-turkeys!
I have also led the line in nice conditions on the ONE DAY that I didn't see a line in front of it. Gotta start getting up earlier, huh? The pro nearing the bottom was a bit tricky and I don't necessarily recommend this for the fledgling 5.9 leader.
To the woman who decked :
"Good luck on your recovery and heal well. Focus on the positive and pull yourself through this crux. You'll be pushing your vertical limits (absolutely no pun intended!!! - the movie ) again in no time! Keep the faith )
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fixxervi6
Sep 24, 2002, 1:39 AM
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I dont' know how to do the quote thing so I'll do it this way
"Maybe new leaders are relying too much on cams and not considering nuts."
I'm new to trad, but I don't think there is anything wrong with relying on cams more than nuts [bIFthey are placed right, I would think it would be more along the lines of "just because its in and the lobes are grabing doesn't mean its good", if they are just slammin them in and going, then they need to learn how to properly place them. I usually reach for a nut first but if I see a good cam spot then I slam it in there, I'm a bit paranoid with the nuts still, so I usually tend to get em stuck and have to rap back down for them, or leave em.
Just my opinion, I'm a cam lover...
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polarwid
Jan 4, 2003, 12:33 AM
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[small]This topic was moved to the Injuries & Accidents forum by polarwid[/small]
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goingtohellquick
Jan 6, 2003, 12:32 AM
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I am very sorry for my extreely inconsiderate post and feel that it should not have taken someone to point it out to me to do something about it. I retract my original statement from this line.
Truely Sorry
-Kyle
[ This Message was edited by: goingtohellquick on 2003-01-06 19:14 ]
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number7
Jan 6, 2003, 1:02 AM
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fixxervi6, cams are a fine way to protect, but like others have said, "there is nothing like a bombproof nut". A well placed nut is always prefered. Use them while easy riding. Cams were origionally designed for touch and go anyway.
M
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radistrad
Jan 6, 2003, 1:06 AM
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It seems strange to me that any one would be climbing at the Leap this time of year, as far as I know its frozen and then some. The leap probably gets next to no sun this time of year either. Am I wrong about this?
I can totally see someone decking on the line, the pro is hard to see and the moves are not all that easy to start out on.
I hope she recovers quickly.
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valygrl
Jan 6, 2003, 10:34 PM
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Boys and Girls:
1) yeah, look at the date
2) why do you assume she was stupid or using the wrong pro? She had an accident. It could have happended to any of us.
3) she's still in a wheel chair. 2 broken heels, one of them requiring terrible surgical repair.
4) she might be reading this.
Hey Special K:
CHILL OUT! You might want to THINK before you POST.
Anna
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