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difdclimber
Mar 1, 2008, 4:12 PM
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Hey everyone, Im 18 years old love climbing and love slack lining. I really want to know some tips on how to prevent injuries and if there are any ways to prevent arthritis? I boulder and try to rest 3 minutes between each route, i also take fish oil and flaxseed oil everyday. I just want some ways to prevent it if anyone knows. Thanks
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coastal_climber
Mar 1, 2008, 4:29 PM
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Over-use injuries are very common, be sure to have adequate rest days between doses of hard climbing. I've recently read about youth getting microfractures around their joints, due to their bones not being fully developed.
>Cam
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difdclimber
Mar 1, 2008, 4:32 PM
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Yeah i've read rest, good amounts of water, and just resting between routes. I just really want to be able to climb for as long as possible and am trying to start early on. Thanks for the tips anyone else keep them coming.
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onceahardman
Mar 1, 2008, 4:58 PM
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Good for you for thinking about your future...
As far as arthritis prevention, probably most important is genetics-pick your parents well.
Keep in mind, that as fun as bouldering is, every fall is a groundfall. They will add up.
Lots of people advocate stretching. Most modern research doesn't support stretching for injury prevention. To rehabilitate a healed structure which has tightened is fine, but overstretching leads to joint laxity, which leads to injury.
Stay strong. Strengthen your core. strengthen PROXIMAL muscle groups first. Hip extensors and flexors, rotator cuffs. Proximal stability helps distal mobility.
Keep your heart strong. If your heart and cardiovascular system stay strong, everything else works better.
Eat sensibly. Learn to do some research, and critical inquiry regarding the various additives out there which claim to eliminate arthritis and other health problems. Many (most?) are worthless.
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difdclimber
Mar 1, 2008, 11:19 PM
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Thanks guys. Yeah i'm trying to just stay fit i want to climb as long as i can. How old can climbers be? I know for sure into the 50's but do many see their 60's?
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coastal_climber
Mar 2, 2008, 5:36 AM
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There's a picture in an old Climbing Magazine and there's a dude that was 83 and still doing 10b on gear.
>Cam
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krosbakken
Mar 2, 2008, 6:05 AM
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coastal_climber wrote: There's a picture in an old Climbing Magazine and there's a dude that was 83 and still doing 10b on gear. >Cam
wow thats hard core right there. I hope I can climb that long. ha
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difdclimber
Mar 2, 2008, 11:55 PM
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thats awesome. well i guess i'll just need to keep my body in good shape.
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pyrosis
Mar 3, 2008, 12:07 AM
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I know a guy John in Bishop that redpointed his first 13a at age 70. Now he's 72 and climbs 13b. :)
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difdclimber
Mar 3, 2008, 4:08 AM
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pyrosis wrote: I know a guy John in Bishop that redpointed his first 13a at age 70. Now he's 72 and climbs 13b. :)
That's awesome. thanks for the inspiration/hope guys. right on
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ozoneclimber
Mar 3, 2008, 4:25 AM
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There was an issue of climbing a year or two ago that had an article on the guy who owns the world record for most FAs, I think that he is now in his nineties. BTW he doesn't use chalk and I think that he still climbs in his old hightop EBs. Lol.
I think that the main thing is knowing when to stop and take a break. I'm real bad about that and have tendon problems and I'm sure that my shoulder problems are going to get worse, although my line of work doesn't help much.
I love to boulder, but as far as physical longevity goes it's the worst thing for you. It is "tweeky" everything you do is highly strenuous and dynamic, so you're shocking your shoulders a lot. Most of the holds that you use are either slopey or crimpy, so you are going to be putting a ton of pressure on those tendons.
Take rest days, stretch, and grab a book on massage therapy, I've been told that it helps your muscles a lot if you massage between burns, and it has been helping me since I started it. Massaging breaks up the lactic acid that builds up when you get pumped. Lactic acid "blocks" O2 from getting to the muscles, hence muscle death/atrophy if you cut off circulation. Massage those forearms on your rest days.
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difdclimber
Mar 3, 2008, 1:56 PM
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^ hey thanks. a guy at the gym i climb at told me 3 minutes rest between each route gives enough time to cut down the lactic acid.
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difdclimber
Mar 4, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Anyone take fish oil and/or flax seed oil?
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patmay81
Mar 4, 2008, 8:08 PM
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fish oil?!!!! no, im pretty sure a cheap lager works way better!!!!
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miavzero
Mar 5, 2008, 6:34 AM
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lactic acid does not actually cause fatigue, it is fuel.
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difdclimber
Mar 14, 2008, 2:40 AM
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miavzero wrote: lactic acid does not actually cause fatigue, it is fuel.
Didn't know that thanks.
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HairSnakes
Mar 18, 2008, 3:16 AM
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miavzero wrote: lactic acid does not actually cause fatigue, it is fuel.
Lactic Acid is NOT fuel. It is a by-product of the anaerobic breakdown of glucose (aka fermentation). Your muscles cannot use lactic acid, and as the name suggests it is an ACID. Thus it lowers your blood pH. This causes acidosis and prevents your muscles from working (hence when your pumped you eventually fall). Lactic Acid builds up when there is not enough oxygen to supply your muscles for aerobic catabolism. Basically the demands of your muscles requires more energy than can be supplied by oxidative phosphorylation.
Also, the fatigue you feel is caused by calcium leaks in your muscles (may be related to lactic acid build-up). I don't feel like going into depth on this pathway or why it happens, just remember lactic acid is a climbers ENEMY!
"Speed is Forever" - Hans Florens
'Nuf Said
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hyhuu
Mar 18, 2008, 3:36 PM
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OK, who wants to start?
HairSnakes wrote: Lactic Acid is NOT fuel. It is a by-product of the anaerobic breakdown of glucose (aka fermentation). Your muscles cannot use lactic acid, and as the name suggests it is an ACID. Thus it lowers your blood pH. This causes acidosis and prevents your muscles from working (hence when your pumped you eventually fall). Lactic Acid builds up when there is not enough oxygen to supply your muscles for aerobic catabolism. Basically the demands of your muscles requires more energy than can be supplied by oxidative phosphorylation. Also, the fatigue you feel is caused by calcium leaks in your muscles (may be related to lactic acid build-up). I don't feel like going into depth on this pathway or why it happens, just remember lactic acid is a climbers ENEMY! "Speed is Forever" - Hans Florens 'Nuf Said |
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crimpandgo
Mar 18, 2008, 3:45 PM
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hyhuu wrote: OK, who wants to start? HairSnakes wrote: Lactic Acid is NOT fuel. It is a by-product of the anaerobic breakdown of glucose (aka fermentation). Your muscles cannot use lactic acid, and as the name suggests it is an ACID. Thus it lowers your blood pH. This causes acidosis and prevents your muscles from working (hence when your pumped you eventually fall). Lactic Acid builds up when there is not enough oxygen to supply your muscles for aerobic catabolism. Basically the demands of your muscles requires more energy than can be supplied by oxidative phosphorylation. Also, the fatigue you feel is caused by calcium leaks in your muscles (may be related to lactic acid build-up). I don't feel like going into depth on this pathway or why it happens, just remember lactic acid is a climbers ENEMY! "Speed is Forever" - Hans Florens 'Nuf Said
Oh, no,, please DONT :) 
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onceahardman
Mar 18, 2008, 8:46 PM
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OK, I'll take it...
HairSnakes, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about...
By the way, who is "Hans Florens"?
anyway, this quote:
In reply to: Another misconception is that lactate is responsible for acidifying the blood, thereby causing fatigue. To the contrary, lactate is actually an important fuel that is used by the muscles during prolonged exercise.
is from this paper:
http://www.time-to-run.com/theabc/lactic.htm
but if you just google "lactic acid exercise physiology", you will get 1000s of relevant hits.
or, any exercise physiology textbook written in the past 15 years should be helpful as well.
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irregularpanda
Mar 18, 2008, 9:37 PM
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onceahardman wrote: OK, I'll take it... HairSnakes, you almost sound like you know what you are talking about... By the way, who is "Hans Florens"? anyway, this quote: In reply to: Another misconception is that lactate is responsible for acidifying the blood, thereby causing fatigue. To the contrary, lactate is actually an important fuel that is used by the muscles during prolonged exercise. is from this paper: http://www.time-to-run.com/theabc/lactic.htm but if you just google "lactic acid exercise physiology", you will get 1000s of relevant hits. or, any exercise physiology textbook written in the past 15 years should be helpful as well.
*sigh*
but if you had actually taken a biochemistry course as I believe hairsnakes has, you will understand that lactic acid IS NOT FUEL, it is a by-product of anaerobic (sans oxygen) cellular respiration. Ever felt "pumped"? That's lactate/lactic acid. (which as hairsnakes mentioned may be related to calcium ion release in the muscle)
The statement about lactate as a misnomer is correct, however. The thing is that there are so many free protons (hydrogen) floating around in the cells and blood that as soon as lactate is release, it gets protonated and becomes lactic acid. Instantly.
The (very interesting and complicated) gluconeogenesis pathway that is skimmed over in the article addresses the creation of glucose on the liver (gluconeogenesis). This takes a long time, hence the article being about runners and their legs, not climbers and their forearms. Gluconeogenesis takes time. I believe this article (while correct in ways) is geared towards marathon runners and ultra marathon runners. it is also written for the layman, not the biochemist.
Good info for runners, though. I'm not flaming, I just have time on my hands.
edited because I can't spell when I drink coffee.
Also edited because maybe you did take a biochem course: I don't want to sound like an expert or a condescending prick.
(This post was edited by irregularpanda on Mar 18, 2008, 10:04 PM)
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onceahardman
Mar 18, 2008, 10:31 PM
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panda, there is no need for the condescending "sigh"...and I HAVE taken biochem, and lots of physiology.
(whoops, I see you have edited, sorry for the abrasive tone)
Lactic acid is the end product of glycolysis, which then DISsociates to lactate + H+ in the blood or intracellular fluid. Evidenced by blood tests for LACTATE, not for lactic acid. Oxidative phosphorylation quickly uses lactate for energy. To say lactate is not fuel is simply wrong, lactate is even produced at rest.
I try not to bore the relative laypeople with endless lists of links that hardly anybody reads. Then the endless criticisms..."It's not peer-reviewed"..."That publication is a rag"...etc. If you could show me a reference for the long-term existence of blood lactic acid, I'd be happy to read it. Meanwhile, here is something supporting my points:
http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/lactic-acid.html
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gobias
Mar 18, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Anybody who took some biology have time to explain this? Most of the article were things I've heard, but not this.
as running speed is increased, a point is reached at which there is insufficient oxygen available to the muscle and energy sources that do not require oxygen contribute to the energy that is needed. This results in a disproportionate increase in the blood lactate concentration, a point identified as the anaerobic threshold. This is also known as the lactate threshold..... Firstly, the muscle never becomes anaerobic: there are other reasons for the supposed disproportionate increase
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gobias
Mar 18, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Nevermind, that link just posted helps.
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irregularpanda
Mar 18, 2008, 10:50 PM
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onceahardman wrote: If you could show me a reference for the long-term existence of blood lactic acid, I'd be happy to read it.
I'd be glad to read it, even if it ain't peer reviewed 
But, I have class today, and I will do that later. Ugh, the idea of reviewing old biochem lectures and reading from 2 years ago, right before spring break (claps hands, shouting yay!)
Which biochem text did you use BTW? I used Lehningers principles of biochemistry.
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