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USnavy
Sep 23, 2008, 10:02 AM
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lena_chita
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Sep 23, 2008, 2:25 PM
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You just do it. You lead more and toprope less-- that's how you get more comfortable with leading...
Don't get me wrong, I have lead-head issues, too. Everyone does. Some days are good climbing days, and some days I just want to whine, bail and have my Mommy give me a hug.
I remember when I first started leading sport, I was in noobish admiration of the people who have been climbing for 6 years and were leading 5.10s. They gave me a lot of sage advice. One of the things they said was that you always lead at least 4 letter grades below your toproping ability.
I listened and thought they were completely right. 
I thought that someday, if I'm really lucky, I might be able to toprope 5.12a and lead 5.11a...
3 years later, they are still leading 5.10s, very selectively, after toproping them first, even though they COULD toprope 5.11 clean, while I lead at my limit, and 5.12a doesn't seem all that bad to lead...
Probably the single thing that changed how I climb was my decision not to toprope a route that I think I might be able to lead. I would rather try leading a route and bail than toprope it first and them lead. (though if I bail, I have nothing against toproping it later and figuring out the sequence and eventually redpointing on lead. It is just that the feeling of walking up to a route that you never climbed and leading it really builds confidence for me)
Some people suggest practice falls to get over the fear of falling, starting with smallish falls and working up to bigger whips-- on safe terrain, of course!
I am not too big on that idea b/c I find that my fear of falling on one route doesn't translate to the other route, or my falling practice on one day doesn't translate to how comfortable I feel with falls on the next day. Some routes just feel scary-- it isn't the fall itself, but something about that route-- the exposure, etc.
But sometimes taking falls helps-- on a particular route, if I'm too scared to commit to a dynamic move, I take a fall on purpose. Then I get over it in my head-- see, you took a fall, and it was clean and O.K. This is what would happen if you throw for that hold and miss. No worse. Now DO it! It doesn't help on another route on a different day. but it helps for that particular one.
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granite_grrl
Sep 23, 2008, 2:40 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Some people suggest practice falls to get over the fear of falling, starting with smallish falls and working up to bigger whips-- on safe terrain, of course! I am not too big on that idea b/c I find that my fear of falling on one route doesn't translate to the other route, or my falling practice on one day doesn't translate to how comfortable I feel with falls on the next day. Some routes just feel scary-- it isn't the fall itself, but something about that route-- the exposure, etc. But sometimes taking falls helps-- on a particular route, if I'm too scared to commit to a dynamic move, I take a fall on purpose. Then I get over it in my head-- see, you took a fall, and it was clean and O.K. This is what would happen if you throw for that hold and miss. No worse. Now DO it! It doesn't help on another route on a different day. but it helps for that particular one.
Example - I'm kinda scared of falling on the third bolt on my latest project when I'm going for the clipping jug above the fourth bolt. It would be kind of a long fall and I'm not as far from the ground as I'd like to be. Next time I'm out there I think I've got to take a couple of falls at that spot to see what it'll really be like.
But I think Lena is right in that you have to just get on lead and stay on lead more often. I'm starting to get to the point where I see what a pain in the ass it is to always have the rope there in front of your face when TRing. Its nicer to lead and I see pushing yourself hard when you're not getting tangled in the rope.
Edited to add the word "yes".
Edited (again) because k is no where near d. Fuck.
(This post was edited by granite_grrl on Sep 23, 2008, 3:18 PM)
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docky
Sep 23, 2008, 2:43 PM
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That is why she said SOMETIMES on a particular route granite girl. I think lena is right on about the fear factor NOW DO IT. nice thread lena
(This post was edited by docky on Sep 23, 2008, 2:52 PM)
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jt512
Sep 23, 2008, 2:54 PM
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Becoming more afraid after the fourth bolt is really irrational, since the fourth bolt is commonly where you can finally be reasonably sure that you won't hit the ground if you fall.
As to your fear of bolts failing, I used to have the same fear myself (I came to sport climbing from a trad background), and I overcame it only with experience: eventually I'd fallen enough times, and the bolts had held, that I became confident in them. What you might want to try is taking some intentional falls in situations in which the failure of one bolt won't be dangerous. Since this will almost always be above the fourth bolt, maybe you'll be tackling your other fear simultaneously. Start out with falls so small that they don't scare you at all and gradually increase the distance. You never want to be scared during these practice falls because you want to ingrain the feeling of being relaxed while falling, not scared.
Although I don't want to stifle discussion in this thread, you might consider posting your question in the Warrior's Way forum, which is dedicated to topics such as this. Also, I highly recommend the Rock Warrior's Way book.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Sep 23, 2008, 2:56 PM)
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granite_grrl
Sep 23, 2008, 3:06 PM
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docky wrote: That is why she said SOMETIMES on a particular route granite girl. I think lena is right on about the fear factor NOW DO IT. nice thread lena
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granite_grrl
Sep 23, 2008, 3:16 PM
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jt512 wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Edited to add the work "yes". Uh oh, now you're going to have to edit the note you made about editing your post. Jay
And the "k" isn't even near the "d"! Lame!
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kennoyce
Sep 23, 2008, 3:24 PM
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great advice so far. I personally just don't top rope. thats the best way to get over your fear. You said that after the 3rd or 4th bolt you are afraid of the bolt pulling out. On most routs even if the 3rd or 4th bolt pulled, you still wouldn't deck because the 2nd or 3rd would still hold (this is dependent on the route and bolt placing). or another thing you could do is start trad climbing so that you can see the placements and judge for yourself if they are good or not. plus remember that most bolts placed (3/8" or bigger) are rated to at least 20 kN and the max impact force a rope can put on them is like 12 kN in a factor 2 fall. The higher up the route you get, the lower the fall factor, and thus the lower the impact force on the bolt. Just go out and take some intentional falls on overhanging routes and this will help out greatly.
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lena_chita
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Sep 23, 2008, 3:27 PM
Post #10 of 48
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granite_grrl wrote: docky wrote: That is why she said SOMETIMES on a particular route granite girl. I think lena is right on about the fear factor NOW DO IT. nice thread lena Er, I was agreeing with her? I fully understand I was saying the same kind of thing she was.
 Yeah, I understood you even without editing, too.
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sungam
Sep 23, 2008, 4:17 PM
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Read some of Aceto's threads about hearing the rock, and letting it guide you across it's faces.
It won't let you fall, and it will grip tight the bolts if you should slip by your own doing.
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jaablink
Sep 23, 2008, 5:19 PM
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… I have never been big on sport climbing…I mostly do trad where I am responsible for protecting my partner and myself by placing as much gear as needed for that specific climb. If I don’t feel comfortable I place more gear…...… I have been training trad climbers for years. From start to eventually become very proficient leaders able to free think any situation they may get into.
First: In sport climbing it is good to know what kind of rock you are climbing. Its hardness . Any special characteristics. The ability to identify the size and make of the bolt used is a huge + (--- look here too---http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/mechbolts.htm ). The bolters name and background of him/her. When the bolts were placed…. (gear shops & locals in the area should be able to give you some of this information)
I have noticed in many , when we train in crags they are more afraid than on big walls. When they get high enough, the more exposed surroundings stimulate the production of more adrenaline. That puts them in go mode (all that cragging now paid off) and they perform without the fear of falling using all the skills that were programmed into them though practice in the crags.
I train them at lower grades most of the time - working on form , placements , technique protecting longer climbs - reading and anticipating protection points along the rout in advance ,anchors , eq , directional and so on…., and pushing the grade one day a week at near their max. They build confidence in themselves at lower grades fastest. That helps them keep a cool head when the grade is increased.
You may also want to try rehearsals on top rope with twice the amount of gear you need for added weight.
Knowledge, practice, and experience will help you conquer your fears. The rocks are not going any ware.take your time.
Perfect practice makes perfect…
(This post was edited by jaablink on Sep 23, 2008, 5:26 PM)
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shockabuku
Sep 23, 2008, 5:35 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: jt512 wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Edited to add the work "yes". Uh oh, now you're going to have to edit the note you made about editing your post. Jay Fuck!!!!! And the "k" isn't even near the "d"! Lame!
It's close in the reflection.
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Sep 23, 2008, 5:35 PM)
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chossmonkey
Sep 23, 2008, 5:35 PM
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Get used to falling.
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borntorocku
Sep 23, 2008, 6:15 PM
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Another factor could be your climbing partners. Are they "Top-rope Tough Guys" or do they get after it? If I'm climbing with people that love sport climbing (which includes falling), I crank hard (on lead). Think about how your climbing partners are effecting your feelings.
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flipnfall
Sep 23, 2008, 10:24 PM
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I would say that do only leading well within your ability until leading is less of a mental block, then move slowly into higher and higher ratings. Sometimes you need to first get over the fear of leading so you can perform just as well on lead in the higher ratings.
My two cents.
GT
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sungam
Sep 23, 2008, 10:27 PM
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Or you could follow my advice from the "fear of heights" thread.
I suggest you (OP) looks that up.
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flipnfall
Sep 23, 2008, 10:36 PM
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sungam wrote: Or you could follow my advice from the "fear of heights" thread. I suggest you (OP) looks that up.
Don't listen to him, he's an imposter.
I'm the real Sungam.
GT
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USnavy
Sep 24, 2008, 9:24 AM
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epoch
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Sep 24, 2008, 12:28 PM
Post #21 of 48
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Get out and lead more. Don't be afraid to fall, it's part of climbing and there is no shame in doing it. Just be sure that the falls are clean.
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jaablink
Sep 24, 2008, 12:49 PM
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If you are in the mood to lead something …. Do… if not ? Play , get in some laps in , shoot the shit with your buddies whatever, at least your climbing. Everybody has their off days. Why are you beating your self up about it?
I’m sure in a new place , like when you went to Red Rocks you would perform just fine. Test that, go someplace new .
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sungam
Sep 24, 2008, 12:51 PM
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I used to get a similar thing on trad. Even if the gear was good I just couldn't do the moves. They either felt impossible or I just couldn't "justify" doing them in my head.
The key is to do them, simple as that.
When in doubt, go balls out! (worst line evarrrr)
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gdoliner
Oct 3, 2008, 12:02 AM
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Confidence is a product of a few different things. Primarily positive experiences boost confidence. You've been climbing for a while it sounds like, so you should have plenty of positive experiences to draw from to boost your confidence. If you are not feeling confident at the bottom of a climb, close your eyes and think back to a climb which was a good send, think of that feeling you had as you were on the route, and how you felt after it.
Confidence is also impacted by our surroundings, weather, climbing partners, rock quality, etc. As a previous poster said, maybe your climbing partners are not having a positive influence on you. Maybe the weather is no good, the best idea may be to call it a day.
One of the biggest things that impacts confidence in short time frames is fatigue. As the body gets tired, confidence comes down. This is a subconscious reaction of the body. If this is realized, you can tune into your mood and help gauge your fatigue level. It may be that on fresh days you are full of confidence, have no fear of falling, but the next day, since your body is tired, that same mental state is not there. Your body is telling you to take it easy, and its almost always a good idea to listen to your body.
Finally, what I and others, including professional athletes, have found to be very effective in focusing the mind, is to concentrate on the task at hand. When climbing, just think about the moves, consequences of a fall must be put out of your head. If you are not concentrating 100% on the task at hand, you are doing yourself a disservice. Focusing on the moves allows the body to do what it does best - see and react. You see the next hold, you allow your body to react to it, thats it, nothing else.
Cheers and best of luck.
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moss1956
Oct 3, 2008, 12:21 AM
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I agree with your remarks about confidence. If you are in your element,
and are comfortable that your partner is safe, and you aren't in over your head on the rock, you will quit getting freaked out. The OP should get a solid regular partner, and spend more time at the crag. :)
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