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kman
Oct 17, 2001, 8:36 AM
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Hey all. I took an intro to rock course back at the beggining of June and i've been out almost every weekend since. Also took a mountaineering course a few weeks ago. I must say that I am completely hooked. All I can think about is climbing. I have the fever. Anyways I am climbing at a low 5.10 average and have maxed on a 5.11b. In your opinions, at what level should I be comfortable before I take the trad course? And also, how hard was it for you guys to hook up with an experienced trad climber when you were still learning? I have met a lot of great people through climbing, but every one I have met seems to be at the same level as myself ( top ropers ). Thanks in advance for your input.
CLIMB ON!!!!!!!!
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maltek
Oct 17, 2001, 2:16 PM
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I think that if you are thinking about that, this mean that you are ready to 2nd a trad climber. Follow one on a route and you will find all the tricks and problems associated with trad climbing. Since doing 2nd is the same as top rope (except that you need to remove pro), make it fun to learn. I am at this point now!
[ Ce Message a été édité par: maltek le 2001-10-17 07:18 ]
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paulc
Oct 17, 2001, 5:23 PM
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2nding is a great way to get into trad. You should keep in mind that if all you have done is sport that if you don't have experience on crack, which most trad climbs tend to be, then you will drop a couple of grades at least until you pick up the techniques. Also a really good rule of thumb when you are getting into trad is not to push your gear limits at the same time as you push you climbing limits. Stick to ridiculiously easy routes, if you can onsight 5.10 whatever then stick to 5.7 or perhaps 5.8. You will find that it sounds really silly, but trad is a whole other ballgame, not only do you spend alot more time leading even compared to sport, but the mental side of things is quite significant as well, perhaps more so than the actual physical side of things.
Paul
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camhead
Oct 17, 2001, 6:52 PM
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As Paulc said, don't get in over your head. Until you are comfortable with your gear placing skills, stick to easy climbs. If you are worrying about where to put pro, you should NOT be worrying about a dicey move.
I know tons of 5.12 sport climbers who can't a 5.9 crack. It is a whole different ballgame.
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dustinap
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Oct 22, 2001, 12:39 AM
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Before you start trad, read John Longs book anchoring and advanced anchoring. Also, I can't agree more that 2nding is a good way to go, also you can use their gear[hopefully] and find out what you like, and dislike about their gear.
Also, it is very important to learn how to equalize your anchors properly with gear.
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rrrADAM
Oct 22, 2001, 12:41 AM
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I led sport 10's and jumped on a 9 for my first trad lead, and was in fear of my life, I barely pulled it off.
I quickly jumped down to 6's and slowly worked my way up.
Now I lead 11c sport and 10c trad.
Trad's a different animal.
rrrADAM
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passthepitonspete
Oct 22, 2001, 2:12 AM
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Once I was able to second 5.7, I started leading 5.2. My mentor soloed up beside me checking all my gear placements!
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addiroids
Oct 23, 2001, 12:00 AM
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Don't listen to Passthepitonspete!! Look at his title, he is a lycra-spandex wearing sport climber!!! Just kidding, the man knows his stuff.
When I take people out to learn to lead on trad gear, I take the first 3 hours of the day (breakfast) for an ethics lesson to erase all that bolt-clipping mentality from their mind. This may involve using a #5 Cam in some unusual ways, but most of them pass.
Then I have them follow me for a while (get some good belays out of it) and clean my gear. Then I do a gear placement lesson on the ground and have them place a lot of gear so I can look at it. Then I lead a 5.4-5.6 or lower and sew it up and lower off. Then I have them lead on my gear. Then as they are lowering, I have them clean every other placement (the not so good ones I tell them to) and relead it with the entire rack. I do this for the rest of the day until they can lead placing all their own gear and lower off my anchor or bring me up. Then we go through an anchor building class (usually next day) and I teach them knots and tie-ins and have them do it ad-nauseum. Then I hand him/her the sharp end, and say, "You're on belay dude, have at it!!" The route they lead is like 5.6 or so, one I know is easy to sew up. I also make them place way more gear than I would place. Usually, I am more scared belaying and watching my buddies run stuff out than I am actually doing it myself.
This is all followed by a good ethics post test. But joking aside, be sure you can follow 5.8ish before jumping on a 5.4-5.6 so you can KNOW you won't fall. Hell, follow it on TR first to know the moves. Learning to place gear is about placing gear, not worrying about falling!!!
TRADitionally yours,
Addiroids
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extremesport
Oct 23, 2001, 7:21 PM
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I would agree with the going 2nd thing. I followed for a week just really learning the how where and why. then I did some moc. leadingoff of a top rope to really get the feel for it. I lead for the first time last weekend on a 5.5 lead and I was comfortable on 5.9+ by the end of the week.
Later all
climb on
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jhundrup
Oct 23, 2001, 9:12 PM
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I really agree with most of what has been said here. You asked a what level should you be climbing before taking a trad class. I say that it doesn't matter what level you are at before taking the class. The first class that I took was a trad class. I think that if people want to learn trad, they can do so from the start. Some people may disagree, but you can always second for a while and lead easy routes. And just because you take a lead class, doesn't mean that you can't go work on improving your level on top rope.
When I first started seconding, I would clean each piece and then replace it to see how the leader had placed it, then I would remove and rack it. This gave me some good practice on making good placements by simply repeating the ones already placed.
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skupdogg
Oct 29, 2001, 10:28 AM
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knowing how to properly build an anchor is also extremely important. be sure you know how to do this before you get out there and lead anything, unless you know there are fixed anchors at the top.
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kman
Nov 28, 2001, 12:00 PM
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Thanks for the tips
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climb512
Nov 29, 2001, 7:11 PM
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i ike the idea of cleaning then replacing it for practice. as a new leader when i follow i will try that. the more practice the better.
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talons05
Nov 29, 2001, 10:39 PM
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Hey Kman - You're on the right track. Keep taking courses and try and find experienced partners who you can follow as sort of an apprentice.
AW
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diarmid
Nov 30, 2001, 5:04 AM
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I agree with everyone on the seconding part, and jhundrup especially about starting trad whenever. The peeps that mentored me showed how to do my harness right, how to tie in, and how to follow on the first day. Hell of an intro, but in two years I've never sport climbed. Ever. I can't help it. I feel like I'm cheating if I do sport ... I'm excluding indoor gyms here of course ...
It may be more expensive, but I find trad is a whole lot more ... exciting!
[ This Message was edited by: diarmid on 2001-11-29 21:06 ]
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crux_clipper
Dec 1, 2001, 4:54 AM
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My very first single pitch trad was a 10, and multi-pitch the next day was 7. Both at Araps. It is best to start REALLY low because you get a feel of placeing protection on an easy climb that is well withing your limits.
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runner
Dec 1, 2001, 6:23 AM
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first i would just like to congratulate the dude starting at trad.
what people need to realize is that bolts weren't always around and people still climbed.
trad is the only way to really enjoy climbing as it should be enjoyed--you and the rock. my opinion on drilling the hell out of a rock is stay in town with your heavy construction.
the wild can be such a great and peaceful place.
the more development it sees the more the experience dwindles and the closer we get to making a big hotel, or restaurant, or gym out of all wild places.
anyway to answer the dude's question. start now.
don't do anything you're not comfortable with and seek the best advice and assistance possible.
follow for as long as you need to to feel comfortable.
the city of rocks,idaho is a great place to start if you're anywhere near it.
learn pro well. and continue to learn as long as you climb.
the more trad climbers there are out there the fewer bolts there will be.
glad to be trad.
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kman
Dec 4, 2001, 12:06 PM
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the hard part in this is trying to find experienced trad climbers to 2nd.
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clmbngfiend
Dec 6, 2001, 2:11 AM
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I don't really think that taking a class is necessary. You can learn a whole lot of information by doing that but the only way you will ever learn is by practice, practice, practice. I worked at a summer camp for boys and we would let them trad lead a climb while on top rope. That is a good way to get comfortable placing gear but still being safe. The best thing you can do is find a mentor who knows his stuff. I learned from a friend who knew what he was doing. I followed him on a couple climbs then he put me through a ground test on my skills then let me have the sharp end of the rope. It worked really well for me. Give it a try before forking out the dough to a guide.
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talons05
Dec 17, 2001, 3:20 AM
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The key is to take it slow. Remember that it is your life we're talking about here. Traditional climbing is more of a commitment than other types, and can be more dangerous.
AW
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lschlack
Jan 5, 2002, 12:27 AM
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Take the class(es) and/or 2nd behind a guide or a trustworthy and experienced friend. The classes or guide will cost some coin but are worth it.
Dont discount getting a few of the mentioned books either and read, you will get the technical understanding of how things work.
Runitout had a great suggestion, borrow or buy a few pieces of gear to get you started and go to your favorite outdoor area and place gear, but place the gear and bounce off it. Bouncing on a runner on some gear place a foot or so off the deck is an easy way to see how your placements are working and a foot isnt a long way to fall.
Building a hanging belay that way is a safe way to get proficient with anchoring too as your gear placement gets better.
Regards,
Larry
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airscape
Jan 5, 2002, 1:31 AM
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IF i got it right, he said he is a top roper still, Don't you guys think maybe it is best if he just gets the feeling of leading a climb first, by doin some sport climbing first??
When I started to lead It was a total different experience than top roping, Is a strange feeling just pushing yourself off if you fall for the first time on a lead.
But then again, I have never done a trad climb. I would LOVEEEEEEE to try, but here we have mostly sport routes.
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beyond_gravity
Jan 27, 2002, 6:32 PM
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Dudes, dont dis sport climbing. plaing cams, nuts, or hexs can be "cheating" as well. Hell, right now i can't afford much gear, I have about 8 nuts, and 4 hexs, so I use chock stones, I call all you cam heads cheaters! If you dont want to cheat at all, free solo barefoot without chalk or tape. Who cares!! if cheating is fun, cheat!
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jds100
Jan 27, 2002, 7:59 PM
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As long as you call it what it is; that is, don't say you've "climbed" a free climb if you've aided it. Just say you aided it. Don't say you've "climbed" a lead route if you toproped it; just say that you toproped it. Don't say you climbed it if you fell on it or hung on the rope for rest, etc.; just say that you "worked" it, or that you fell on it, or rested on the rope on it. It can all be fun, but let's be up front about what we're actually doing on the route.
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kman
Jan 30, 2002, 9:50 AM
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airscape "IF I got it right, he said he is a top roper still, Don't you guys think maybe it is best if he just gets the feeling of leading a climb first, by doin some sport climbing first??"
I have done some leads on sports routes. The first time I was above a bolt was an awesome feeling. But I am sure it will not compare to being above a piece that I placed myself. I am going out to the rockies to do some ice climbing and to learn a little bit of mixed climbing which will give me a head start on placing a bit of gear before spring. I CANT FREAKIN WAIT ANY MORE!!!!
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