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seatbeltpants
Feb 4, 2009, 10:15 PM
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AlexCV wrote: The key to getting to 5.12 as early as possible is to try as many of them as possible until your find the most ridiculously soft 5.12 so you can actually send it and then spray about climbing 5.12 to anyone who'll ear.
dammit, you're onto me.
i think age has to have something to do with any assessment of this. i've only been climbing for a year and can grovel up 5.10s, but figure that's not the end of the world cos i started when i was 30. if i was 16, however, that might be rubbish. hell, i've seen 12 or 13 year olds cruise up harder stuff than i've ever tried and i figure that strength to weight ratio has to have something to do with that.
meh.
steve
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 10:19 PM
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AlexCV wrote: The key to getting to 5.12 as early as possible is to try as many of them as possible until your find the most ridiculously soft 5.12 so you can actually send it and then spray about climbing 5.12 to anyone who'll ear.
That's what I did!
DMT
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roadstead
Feb 4, 2009, 10:54 PM
Post #28 of 106
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curt wrote: Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Curt
Curt,
That really Hurts!
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drector
Feb 4, 2009, 11:05 PM
Post #29 of 106
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Maybe that 5.12 that you are close to sending has all of the 5.12 moves somewhere beyond the part you've climbed already. Maybe it's 5.6 or something where you are climbing and the whole route is 5.12 because of some wicked hard move later on.
or maybe you are the top dog, big cheese, A-number-1, best climber out there and do what only others dream of.
And BTW, 5.12 is impossible for me and I will never climb one. It's being realistic to think that harder stuff is harder.
Dave
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swoopee
Feb 5, 2009, 3:28 AM
Post #30 of 106
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dingus wrote: AlexCV wrote: The key to getting to 5.12 as early as possible is to try as many of them as possible until your find the most ridiculously soft 5.12 so you can actually send it and then spray about climbing 5.12 to anyone who'll ear. That's what I did! DMT
I mostly top-rope 5.8 - 5.9 with a rare 5.10, and spray about the 5.13d that I imagine I can climb. 
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jammer
Feb 12, 2009, 12:43 AM
Post #31 of 106
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I'm not qualified to post in this elitist thread ...
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caughtinside
Feb 12, 2009, 1:48 AM
Post #32 of 106
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3 years.
If you break it down, most .12a sport routes will have a crux that's v2, v3 at the max. Can you climb v2 when you're really pumped? voila. 5.12.
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angry
Feb 12, 2009, 2:18 AM
Post #33 of 106
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I first climbed in 96'. I didn't really get into it until about 2001. I sent my first 5.12 in 2003 or January 04'. It was trad and an onsight.
Also, where I came up, there was a HUGE stigma around 5.12. Being an old school trad area and all.
In about 99 I tried a sport 5.12 and nearly got it. I didn't get back on another sport 5.12 untll maybe 3 years ago. It's not that bad, basically V2 while you're pumped.
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hafilax
Feb 12, 2009, 3:06 AM
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I can boulder about V3 so there's hope for me yet. (8 years of climbing so far). 
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pfwein
Feb 12, 2009, 3:09 AM
Post #35 of 106
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Can someone post examples of these 5.12 sport climbs that are "V2 when you're pumped?" I'd appreciate examples around Colo. front range, but anywhere is fine as maybe other people are interested.
I've got an alternate theory: what y'all think are 5.12 are super-light new school softies and not real 5.12, but maybe I'm wrong.
And isn't 5.12 sport the same difficulty as 5.12 trad, just the difference is the gear?
Thx
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angry
Feb 12, 2009, 3:14 AM
Post #36 of 106
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The difference should be the gear, however, it rarely is. On toprope many 5.12 crack climbs are harder than 5.12 sport. This is because a lot of those were done when 5.12 meant something.
For your V2 list.
Off the top of my head,
Wet Dream (CCC)
Road Rash Roof (CCC)
Psuedo Bullet (Table)
There's also a lot (A LOT) of really fucking easy 12's in Boulder Canyon. I rarely climb there but almost every one I've done is pretty casual. Just hit the MP database for sport routes and look for newer ones than 1998. They're pretty much all the same, easy climbing ->crimps -> easy climbing.
Enjoy.
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pfwein
Feb 12, 2009, 3:21 AM
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Thanks, I'll try to check those out when I recover from a finger injury. I've done several Boulder Canyon so-called 5.12a climbs, and I would agree they are about V2 or V3 (with a little pump, as they're pretty short), but I'm not sure I would agree that they are really 5.12 (of and letter grade). Strange cuz I think the BC trad ratings are right on, and a little stiff in some cases.
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curt
Feb 12, 2009, 4:43 AM
Post #39 of 106
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roadstead wrote: curt wrote: Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Curt Curt, That really Hurts!
You used to climb hard trad--and are thus exempt from my comment. 
Curt
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Vicar
Feb 12, 2009, 3:24 PM
Post #40 of 106
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pfwein wrote: Can someone post examples of these 5.12 sport climbs that are "V2 when you're pumped?"
There are a number of routes at Smith where the single hardest move defines the rating and the rest of the climb is much easier. There are a lot of .11a's and b's that fit that bill.
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pfwein
Feb 12, 2009, 5:09 PM
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OK, thanks. but based on what you said, I don't think that 12a rating is valid. (I think Angry would agree with me on this.) If the crux is off the ground, there's no pump when you do it. And a 5.9 finish will add nothing to the difficulty of a 12a sport climb.
While bouldering ratings can't totally translate to route ratings, a V3, under the circumstances you describe (off the ground, so no pump) does not have enough kick for a 12a. Maybe your notion of how hard a V3 is is different from mine--I've seen the grades applied inconsistently so in one place a V3 is good for decent noobs, in another (think some J-Tree ratings) you've got to be pretty darn good to make it up.
Standard ratings discussion disclaimer--plz don't tell me to ignore the ratings and just climb for fun--I do just climb for fun, but I'm not climbing now 
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hafilax
Feb 12, 2009, 5:56 PM
Post #42 of 106
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pfwein wrote: OK, thanks. but based on what you said, I don't think that 12a rating is valid. (I think Angry would agree with me on this.) If the crux is off the ground, there's no pump when you do it. And a 5.9 finish will add nothing to the difficulty of a 12a sport climb. While bouldering ratings can't totally translate to route ratings, a V3, under the circumstances you describe (off the ground, so no pump) does not have enough kick for a 12a. Maybe your notion of how hard a V3 is is different from mine--I've seen the grades applied inconsistently so in one place a V3 is good for decent noobs, in another (think some J-Tree ratings) you've got to be pretty darn good to make it up. Standard ratings discussion disclaimer--plz don't tell me to ignore the ratings and just climb for fun--I do just climb for fun, but I'm not climbing now
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krusher4
Feb 12, 2009, 6:24 PM
Post #43 of 106
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pfwein wrote: Thanks, I'll try to check those out when I recover from a finger injury. I've done several Boulder Canyon so-called 5.12a climbs, and I would agree they are about V2 or V3 (with a little pump, as they're pretty short), but I'm not sure I would agree that they are really 5.12 (of and letter grade). Strange cuz I think the BC trad ratings are right on, and a little stiff in some cases.
If your talking about "Sport Park 5.12" those don't count LOL.
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Alphaboth
Feb 12, 2009, 6:56 PM
Post #44 of 106
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A lot of factors go into it. One being, that there are places where it's a hell of a lot easier to climb 5.12 than others. Some people just don't have the body type to climb hard too, even if they're in shape. Some people think they're training hard when they are really doing very little to raise they're grade. I've been climbing 3 years now, only in the last year have I been climbing seriously, though I wouldn't consider it "training" I've climbed either in the gym or outside probably close to 300 days within the last year. Some days are as simple as working a few problems in the gym or working on a hangboard or doing pullups. My goal at this point isn't to climb 5.12, I'm confident I could redpoint some 5.12s out there If I worked them, but that shouldn't really be your goal. If your a solid 5.10-5.11 that's great, be happy and confident about that. You can go to just about any climbing area and have a great time. Building climbing experience has really been a goal of mine, trying to climb in a bunch of different locations. In my social network I only know a handful of climbers who can climb 5.12 and most of them I've never seen them actually do it.
The grading of most of the climbs is kinda screw up, in my opinion. I starting climbing in an area that is noted for being sandbagged and I don't know exactly how much, I'd say a full number grade in my experience.
Also there's probably only a month or two out of the year, where I feel I can truely climb my hardest. The rest of the time I spend sending 5.10s and enjoying that.
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alwaysclimbing07
Feb 12, 2009, 7:31 PM
Post #45 of 106
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i think it's funny how hard people make things seem. About a month ago, i overheard some people saying that climbing 5.13 comes down to genetics. What a joke. Honestly ANYONE can climb 5.13 sport if they wanted to.
I've got a friend who's forty four, has a wife, job, kids, and his goal for this year is to send his first 14 before he turns forty five. He's not sponsered, and no one's ever really heard of him. He just wants it more than most people.
Honestly, some of the best days of climbing i've ever had was just going out and doing easy trad and enjoying the experiance and surroundings. And i can see how that's really apealing to so many people, but i get a lot more psyched climbing at my limit(on sport) and constantly making progression.
5.14 is the new 5.12
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crazy_fingers84
Feb 12, 2009, 10:14 PM
Post #46 of 106
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Hooray. I can finally post on this thread. Last week I sent my first 5.12. Actually it was a 5.12c. WTF? I have been climbing for about 3.5 years. I have tried several 5.12a/b and never had any luck. I feel like I will be able to finish some of these routes when I have an opportunity to return to the area in the spring.
This route in particular, I worked over 4 days and tried about 10 times. I think it is soft for the grade (though I have never climbed anything within 3 grades of this prior). I have climbed mid 11's that felt harder.
Anyway, it was originally a gear route. . . but was retro bolted . . . and now it is a sport route with a really high first bolt right at the crux. Actually, the same day I sent this route, I climbed an 11a right next to it that had shut me down for a year. I am more proud of finishing the 11 than the 12 because I feel like it was more of an accomplishment. The 11 was sustained while the 12 really only had one difficult move.
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jrathfon
Feb 12, 2009, 10:47 PM
Post #47 of 106
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curt wrote: togden wrote: I guess I'm just a little confused... I always hear that 5.12's are crazy hard and you have to train for years to be able to do them. I have yet to lead a 5.12 all the way, but I've gotten really close, and fully expect to get my first 5.12 in the next few weeks. I've been climbing for almost a year exactly, and I skipped top roping and just jumped straight to lead. I guess what I'm saying is I'm confused by this self defeatist mentality surrounding 5.12's. They are certainly hard climbs, no doubt, but not impossible. My climbing buddy has been climbing for close to 4 years, and hasn't gotten a .12 either. I see a .12, know I can't do it, and try anyway. He says, "Naw, it's too hard, lets try something else." What gives? Any reasonably fit retard can climb 5.12 sport climbs. Grab the rack and try a few 5.12s in the Gunks--then report back. Curt
Haha, I was scrolling down the thread waiting for this comment. Hell, try an 11 at the Gunks for that matter, Yellow Wall??
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jrathfon
Feb 12, 2009, 10:54 PM
Post #48 of 106
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AlexCV wrote: The key to getting to 5.12 as early as possible is to try as many of them as possible until your find the most ridiculously soft 5.12 so you can actually send it and then spray about climbing 5.12 to anyone who'll ear.
And then there is the difference that I think most people forget these days. Climbing A 5.12 is not the same thing as CLIMBING 5.12.
I have a buddy who consistently onsights hard 10 trad. Along walks a typical new climber who's typical first question out of their mouth is "how hard do you climb?" My buddy's answer? 5.8. Why? Because he considers climbing 5.8 as he could walk up to ANY climb ANYWHERE rated 5.8 and be able to comfortably/consistently onsight it/them.
I climb about as hard as my buddy, and I agree with his sentiment. I just tried onsighting "Bambi meets Godzilla" 8+ at J-Tree and sat. So I don't think I'm ready to say I'm a 5.10 climber.
p.s. i have led 12a sport before! spray!
p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder
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kriso9tails
Feb 12, 2009, 11:56 PM
Post #49 of 106
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jrathfon wrote: p.p.s. trad routes ARE harder
Nah, they're just graded wrong.
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gosharks
Feb 13, 2009, 1:25 AM
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pfwein wrote: OK, thanks. but based on what you said, I don't think that 12a rating is valid. (I think Angry would agree with me on this.) If the crux is off the ground, there's no pump when you do it. And a 5.9 finish will add nothing to the difficulty of a 12a sport climb.
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