|
taino
Aug 5, 2004, 6:57 PM
Post #26 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 5371
|
Here:
In reply to: I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Believe it or not, it really does help.
T
|
|
|
|
|
jv
Aug 5, 2004, 7:38 PM
Post #27 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 363
|
Here's an excerpt from a 2001 trip report I posted on rec.climbing.
" . . . so we went down to the two face climbs at the far left end of the face: Vanishing Point and Gimme Shelter. VP is the saner of the two, and Shelter was the scene of my long fall a few months ago. But the memory of finishing the lead and feeling almost casual about it was all I could remember. That and the feeling I always have that a bolted face route is a gentler warmup than any gear protected crack. Totally erroneous in this case.
"The pitch is sparsely but adequately protected all the way to the last bolt, which is about 30 feet below the anchor. The crux is between 10 and 20 feet above the last bolt. This time, unlike the previous outing. I knew exactly where to go. But it seemed much harder. I could not get the memory of coming off out of my head. As I pushed higher into the thin part, I felt the first wave of fear ripple through my mind, and churn through my guts. I stood there, unable to move up, fighting the memory of falling off from a few feet above. The longer I stood, the worse it got, until I started to shake. I wondered if Inez could see what was going on, and if she was afraid too. I felt bad that I'd put her in the situation.
"I went into the little routine that has become automatic. Breathe; shake out one foot, then the other; look around for footholds; relax the neck and shoulders; smile; wait for control to return. It rarely does, but I can usually get enough back to keep going. Stiffly, I moved up on the next smudge and another until I could reach the first of two little warts that are the keys to salvation: the gate opened and I walked through to the anchor a few feet higher up. As quickly as it had descended, the suffocating fog of fear lifted and I could again see the rocks, trees, clouds, shadows and light. Inez followed with careful deliberation so as not to make me feel bad."
JV
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Aug 5, 2004, 7:45 PM
Post #28 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
I usually cry for my mommy.
|
|
|
|
|
ikefromla
Aug 5, 2004, 8:07 PM
Post #29 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1216
|
I do a lot of whining/whimpering.
actually no, i just suck it up as much as possible, knowing that i have no or little reason to actually be scared (i'm a sport climber for god's sake). Yesterday I had a moment though! I jumped on a climb I've done a million or so time, got up to the anchor and for some reason felt unable to clip... too pumped, i dunno... but i looked down and the last bolt was preeeeetty damn far below me. so i thought about it for a second, kinda freaked. then i realized "it's a BOLT, Isaac, just take the fall." so i yelled down "falling" and just let go.. hehehe that was an exciting ride.
|
|
|
|
|
gawd
Aug 5, 2004, 8:18 PM
Post #30 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 193
|
Fear like any emotion is a reaction created by the body to keep one out of harm or danger. The problem with fear is that most people allow it consume them and control their actions and thought leading to irrational actions in some cases and in others it brings them home safely. There is no one way to control fear other then to experience it and move through it. Climbing is dangerous and should be kept that way, if I wanted to live my life without fear I would return to corperate American and immerse myself into the TV nation that so many Americans worship.
Take fear one step at a time and think through it rationally. Is there a ture potential for death or catastrphic injury? If there is then find a way to mitagate and control that fear. Most of the time fear is born out od inexperience or the unkown. People hold themselves to an unrealistic level of reality and thus only work within their false perceptions of who they are. People need to fear grow and become a real person.
Do you think animals feel unneccesary fear? I think not, they sense true danger and react, most do by escaping or working within the "flight" portion of the classic "fight or flight"
All that rock warrior bullshit is a marketing gimmic for weak minded people to label their fears and create excuses, some people do learn from this method but it is still born out of timidness and their apprehension to act on their own accord. This falls in line perfectly with the fear of convenince bolts missing.
Believe in yourself and not what others think or say about you or your actions. Fear is what is bred in TV america and the sedintary lifestyle most people find comfort in.
fuck off!
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 5, 2004, 8:23 PM
Post #31 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: Take fear one step at a time and think through it rationally. Is there a ture potential for death or catastrphic injury? If there is then find a way to mitagate and control that fear. Most of the time fear is born out od inexperience or the unkown. People hold themselves to an unrealistic level of reality and thus only work within their false perceptions of who they are. People need to fear grow and become a real person. All that rock warrior s--- is a marketing gimmic for weak minded people to label their fears and create excuses...
That's a strange statement to make in light of the paragraph right above it, in which you essentially synopsize the Warrior's Way.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
ikefromla
Aug 5, 2004, 8:36 PM
Post #32 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 1216
|
i like TV. in fact I watch it every day. I'm so proud of myself for being just another MTV-addicted sucker. :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
gawd
Aug 5, 2004, 8:41 PM
Post #33 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 193
|
jt
How ironic that I was able to think for myself and come up with my own ideas and without relying on others to think for myself. As I said the rock warrior bullshit is marketing hype so that one person can financially profit from it. Prepackaged reality.
|
|
|
|
|
brad_man
Aug 5, 2004, 8:51 PM
Post #34 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 20, 2004
Posts: 37
|
Gawd- have any examples of how they "market" the warrior technique?
I believe you can get your brain clouded with enough adrenaline to take on warrior-like behavior and power your way through a scary-ass climb, I've done it.
Anyway, usually by the time I'm up on a highball(free) my "spotter" and "friends" are no longer spotting, they're talking about some hairy teacher at school or something (really happened) and laughing while i'm struggling through the crux 25+ ft. up. Then, when I get scared I tell them to shutup...it all gets quiet and they feel my fear, and I throw for the hold while growling, screaming, swearing, etc. and then when I pass the crux they're all like "nice man!" and start talking again....
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 5, 2004, 9:15 PM
Post #35 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: jt How ironic that I was able to think for myself and come up with my own ideas and without relying on others to think for myself. As I said the rock warrior s--- is marketing hype so that one person can financially profit from it. Prepackaged reality.
It's not marketing hype. Have you read it? Maybe you naturally have a good lead head (or maybe you're poser), but not everyone does. The WW is a systematic approach to dealing effectively with the risks of climbing. It's been damn useful to me, as it has to many climbers.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
rioclimb
Aug 5, 2004, 10:05 PM
Post #36 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2004
Posts: 42
|
stay cool, trust your gear
|
|
|
|
|
lewisiarediviva
Aug 6, 2004, 1:55 AM
Post #37 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 527
|
This is a topic that after two pages weaves it's way into and becomes another topic.
About fear. I wish I was my daughter. Once when she was at a spot that I failed at she cried. She cried three times, each for different lengths of time. I just stood on the ground and waited. Next thing I knew she was up by her dad on top of the rock and said "Gee! That was stressful." She cries.
Myself though. I'm afraid of crying (I've wanted to on many climbs). I'm afraid of falling (never want to do). So I cling to the rock freaked out. I know my belayer will catch me. I'm not afraid of the actuall fall. I'm afraid of what happens between clinging to the rock and the time that gravity starts laughing.
My fear has improved my climbing. I asked my partner once after he pointed out that I had just acomplished something: "Does it count when you do it out of pure fright?"
|
|
|
|
|
tahoe_rock_master
Aug 6, 2004, 3:06 AM
Post #38 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 172
|
Have you guys ever heard the saying: The only thing to fear is fear itself. If you get scared then you will not climb as well and you will become irrational. If I feel fear coming I keep moving and think about my next moves and what I need to do. not falling or about my last piece.
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
lewisiarediviva
Aug 6, 2004, 3:16 AM
Post #39 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 527
|
Yea, When I end up confrontining fear I never get over the problem until I accept the fear for what it is. The process is picking up pace too. I use to take for ever when the fear hit. I've shortened my "fear time."
|
|
|
|
|
phillygoat
Aug 6, 2004, 4:03 AM
Post #40 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 22, 2004
Posts: 428
|
OH MY GAWD!? HALLEUJAH! THE PREACHER SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!! :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
phillygoat
Aug 6, 2004, 4:10 AM
Post #41 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 22, 2004
Posts: 428
|
"Fear does not exist in this dojo, DOES IT?! NO, SENSEI!"
-The Karate Kid
|
|
|
|
|
f_thomas
Aug 6, 2004, 5:20 AM
Post #42 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2003
Posts: 139
|
In reply to: I am very curious about how people deal with fear when they are climbing. Obviously fear happens-- .......... What methods do you use to set your fears aside?
Fear manifests itself in various ways, but a commen denominator to all of us is the "Fright and Flight Syndrome" You'll notice your respiration rate incrase, possibly feel your heart pounding in your chest and get that clamy sweaty feeling. Do we allow our physiological response to fear take control? If so, then the next step is PANIC! And with PANIC a loss of rational behavior. Have you ever tried to help a drowning person or one who thought they were drowning - they'll take you down with them if you aren't careful.
I recently made a 200 ft rappel and in the first ten feet experieinced the physical manifestations of fear, but stopped and: Had a discussion with self. Self, stop this, take a deep breath and let it out slowly and let's get on with the task at hand. The results: the ability to complete the rap without the feeling of fear then panic.
In a stressful or emergency situation your training will take over and you'll perform at levels you didn't think possible. As a fomer helicopter pilot flying Medivac and Mountain Rescue we were constantly confronted with fearfull situations.
Caution is in order, however: The loss or abscence of fear is not a good thing in my mind. It is there for a reason and we should head it's warnings but not be consumed. Focus, identify it's source, address it directly in a rational manner and it will not consume you.
My two cents worth! The Warriors Way is an excellent resource to help you address and deal with fear / panic.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Aug 6, 2004, 2:45 PM
Post #43 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
In reply to: In reply to: jt How ironic that I was able to think for myself and come up with my own ideas and without relying on others to think for myself. As I said the rock warrior s--- is marketing hype so that one person can financially profit from it. Prepackaged reality. It's not marketing hype. Have you read it? Maybe you naturally have a good lead head (or maybe you're poser), but not everyone does. The WW is a systematic approach to dealing effectively with the risks of climbing. It's been damn useful to me, as it has to many climbers. -Jay
Marketing hype or not - it doesn't really matter. If it's helpful to people, that's all that really matters.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
nirvana
Aug 6, 2004, 3:29 PM
Post #44 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2004
Posts: 138
|
In reply to: Focus, identify it's source, address it directly in a rational manner and it will not consume you.
I was just thinking, as I drove in to work, that in many cases, I've avoided fear/panic by just doing whatever it was that I knew was going to scare me. As soon as I felt the fear start up, I just forged ahead--without thinking about it. This suits my character, because I enjoy being impulsive--but later, in retrospect, I wonder if I am supposed to stop and look at the fear before I get a jump on it by just taking action.
In relation to climbing, which I am relatively new to (less than a year), I am trying to walk a balance between forging ahead and knowing what the hell I'm doing. On the one hand, say on a scary rappel, I can feel the fear, I can quickly review my tie in/set up, review my anchor, and then just go for it before I've had time to get all panicky. On the other hand, I sometimes think "Okay, you THINK you are making all of the safety checks you need to--but are you overlooking something crucial, newbie??" :shock:
Seems like my "rational" mind is stirring up some of the problems...
|
|
|
|
|
jammer
Aug 6, 2004, 3:54 PM
Post #45 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 3472
|
What is fear? It's not knowing what is going to happen next. If you stop and think about it, nobody really knows what is going to happen in the future, so the only thing to fear is fear itself.
That said, I can't think of anyone who has not felt fear in their life. How I handel it is by relaxing and focusing on the now ... break down the route to the next move, realizing that you are safe and if you do fall, your belayer will hold you, but then ... I only sport climb ... never had the chance to trad.
|
|
|
|
|
inf11b
Aug 8, 2004, 5:12 AM
Post #46 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 22
|
When confronted with fear, do one of two things:
A) Deal with it like a man, ensure you are actually safe, then drive on
B) Scream like a little girl and hold on to the wall until someone helps you to safety.
Seriously, if you get an irrational fear, just do more of whatever makes you afraid. If that doesnt work jump out of an airplane a few times. If that doesnt work, jump out of an airplane with a chute made by the lowest bidder and packed by a disgruntled 19yr old.
|
|
|
|
|
coldclimb
Aug 8, 2004, 5:28 AM
Post #47 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 14, 2002
Posts: 6909
|
Sometimes I just back off, compose myself, and try again, and it works.
|
|
|
|
|
despot
Aug 8, 2004, 1:49 PM
Post #48 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 9
|
Fear is a reflex, like all reflexes it can be overcome with propper training and rational thought...
But that would suck... fear rocks, the feeling of your heart pounding in your chest and the sense of acomplishment when you beat it back down into your belly and get the hell on with what your doing... is truly worthwhile.
|
|
|
|
|
cg
Aug 8, 2004, 2:27 PM
Post #49 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2003
Posts: 39
|
Breathe... always remember to breathe because it's hard to think properly when your brain is deprived of oxygen.
|
|
|
|
|
nirvana
Aug 8, 2004, 5:36 PM
Post #50 of 68
(5086 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2004
Posts: 138
|
In reply to: if you get an irrational fear, just do more of whatever makes you afraid. If that doesnt work jump out of an airplane a few times. If that doesnt work, jump out of an airplane with a chute made by the lowest bidder and packed by a disgruntled 19yr old.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
|
